Raider IO needs to go. It's just as bad for the community as Gearscore was in WOTLK

[Twdft]

Just don't use it. Period.

I don't like the addon, I don't use it. And I still find groups. In fact, I purposely avoid groups that have a rio requirement, because I assume that the group leader is looking to get carried.

That said, I would like the option to limit the access of third parties to my character data. It kinda bothers me how websites can just see everything I do without me giving them consent to do so. If RIO users could only see the score of other RIO users (thus making their own, separate m+ community) then I would have no problem at all.

Raider.io has privacy settings, you can turn everything off so noone can see your score or even a webpage for your character there. You have to make an account for that though.

https://i.imgur.com/70bgCFU.png

[Bisque]

While I do agree that Raider IO is just another Gearscore, even if blizz was to disable Raider IO it would only be a matter of time till there was something to replace Raider IO, "gearscore 3.0" . It is player behavior that is the greater challenge and I am not sure how blizz would change that.

[Xesco]

raider.io doesnt work. it still shows my char for 3weeks ago when i was fooling around as affl for 1 day instead of showing my scores as destro, which ive been playing for months.

Ppl using that kind of stuff makes this game worse. and it doesnt even work. WOW

[Danvash]

There's no problem with Raider.io itself. It's just players being elitist and having egos far above their actual skill level.

"But this +12 wants 3k players only!" Obviously they want a free carry for their alt. Join a different group.

"But I'm a god at the game despite not having done a single +15! Raider.io doesn't reflect this!" No you're not. You're delusional, and it's working as intended. If you're as good as you think you are, you should have no problem working your way up from the bottom like everyone else.

"Raider.io is just about buying boosts!" That's completely false, and anyone who believes that is the type who hasn't stepped in a single dungeon but thinks they should still be taken to the 15 they applied for.

[Vilendor]

The problem is not raider.io (or gear score or ilvl or achievement checking or gear inspection or parses), the problem is the community misusing, overusing, and/or exploiting these resources. As long as the actual players causing this negative behaviour exists, the problem itself will also always exist in some capacity or another, just as it has since day one. If you get rid of raider.io, they will just use something else for the same end.

This. Would be a nice tool to organize high key pushing groups.
But instead people use it to kick players from M4+ queues...

[Accendor]

Gearscore was terrible for the community for multiple reasons back in Wrath. Specifically, it made a divide in the player base that was unnecessary and promoted elitism.

We are witnessing Gearscore 2.0 with Raider.IO. While yes, it is helpful to have so you choose people who have the relative experience to what you key you are looking to push, it also diminishes the value of the player experience as a whole. We tend to choose players who have higher IO's than others, we choose players who are playing "meta" specs over others who may have a higher IO, but they are playing a Shadow priest. So, they are not chosen for the DPS spot.

We as a community have failed one another once again. I hope that Blizzard will step in at some point and remove Raider IO as a whole just as they did with Gearscore. Or, Blizzard will incorporate their own version of this addon into the game itself.

Just Join a guild

[sylenna]

While I do agree that Raider IO is just another Gearscore, even if blizz was to disable Raider IO it would only be a matter of time till there was something to replace Raider IO, "gearscore 3.0" . It is player behavior that is the greater challenge and I am not sure how blizz would change that.

with the (from many players) much dreaded dungeon finder or any equivalent. this way blizzard's metrics would count and determine which character is suitable for which content and no player could deny another player based on "no curve, no invite to nhc dungeon! hurrr!". they could fine tune such a tool to let invites work like the pvp queue where you are able to deselect a few battlegrounds, just with another context.

for example they could be given a maximum of two criteria out of, let's say: role (tank, dd split into ranged/melee, heal split into disc-like and "normal" healing), min. item level, highest m+ level for the dungeon you want to run, region. that would give your choices a bit more meaning since anyone who would want a good healer with normal healing to run a +13 could either use their two criteria for exactly that or rather that they have a specific ilvl.

[Yunzi]

If we're going to use personal performance metrics then why not do it right? Dickey Simpkins won the NBA title in 1997 - does that mean he gets the same "points" for the achievement as did Michael Jordan? The problem with Raider.IO is that it measures the best performance of the groups a player was in, not the average performance or even an individual's contribution to the group.

To use a well known phrase - We Have the Technology. We can evaluate the value of interrupts and assign a score for them - we can evaluate the value of DPS on trash during Fortified weeks. We can evaluate the value of DPS on bosses on Tyrannical weeks. We can evaluate the value of a player avoiding taking unnecessary damage. So why do we ignore all of that and use an EXTREMELY poor metric for evaluating players?

Dickey Simpkins won three NBA titles. Karl Malone won zero. According to Raider.IO, Karl Malone is trash and every group should want Dickey Simpkins. Good luck with that logic.

[Tradu]

If anything they should implement it more directly into the game, like they did with gearscore. They're already supporting r.io via expanding the leaderboards etc, might as well go all the way.

[Great Destiny Man]

Any step towards breaking R.io is very likely going to be paired with Blizzard improving the M+ UI so that others can see your seasonal records. In that eventuality, I don't see the atmosphere changing much in regards to PuG vetting. You'll still be at a disadvantage if you haven't had prior experience of successful higher keys.

I don't object to R.io being phased out at some point, it's core enough now that Blizzard really should do something to absorb it into the main system. I can't help but laugh though at people thinking it will solve all their problems and that PuG vetting will somehow be a thing of the past.

[Relapses]

Raider.io has privacy settings, you can turn everything off so noone can see your score or even a webpage for your character there. You have to make an account for that though.

https://i.imgur.com/70bgCFU.png

"How to never get invited to any group, ever," for $1,000, Alex.

[Drusin]

Ok get rid of it and we'll think of something new to add

[Relapses]

Any step towards breaking R.io is very likely going to be paired with Blizzard improving the M+ UI so that others can see your seasonal records. In that eventuality, I don't see the atmosphere changing much in regards to PuG vetting. You'll still be at a disadvantage if you haven't had prior experience of successful higher keys.

I don't object to R.io being phased out at some point, it's core enough now that Blizzard really should do something to absorb it into the main system. I can't help but laugh though at people thinking it will solve all their problems and that PuG vetting will somehow be a thing of the past.

Seeing as the only thing R.IO actually does is provide a numerical value for data which is already publicly available on the Armory, one could argue that the UI improvements have already been made. Removing R.IO at this point would change what is a one-step process currently (look up player on R.IO or use the R.IO addon) into a two-step process (look up player on Armory then see how many keys they've completed at various levels). I doubt it's is going anywhere, however, as the APIs it uses were added to the Armory for the express purpose of websites like R.IO to exist.

[potis]

If we're going to use personal performance metrics then why not do it right? Dickey Simpkins won the NBA title in 1997 - does that mean he gets the same "points" for the achievement as did Michael Jordan? The problem with Raider.IO is that it measures the best performance of the groups a player was in, not the average performance or even an individual's contribution to the group.

To use a well known phrase - We Have the Technology. We can evaluate the value of interrupts and assign a score for them - we can evaluate the value of DPS on trash during Fortified weeks. We can evaluate the value of DPS on bosses on Tyrannical weeks. We can evaluate the value of a player avoiding taking unnecessary damage. So why do we ignore all of that and use an EXTREMELY poor metric for evaluating players?

Dickey Simpkins won three NBA titles. Karl Malone won zero. According to Raider.IO, Karl Malone is trash and every group should want Dickey Simpkins. Good luck with that logic.

Your analogy is terrible, it simply has to do with weeding out people, assuming you have the brain to use it properly, which is the actual problem with it, the people its not made for, are using it incorrectly/abusing it, hence all these dumb ass posts.

Once more people dont understand how massive WoW is even during stagnation periods and how many choices of players exist and why r.io is needed.

Its been 4 years now etc, but you can understand the importance of it during the start of the expansion, same with Legion and BFA, having Mythic "raidurs" applying and being completely inadequate trash players because gear is irrelevant if you dont know what the fuck you are doing after a certain scaling.

Same logic with people that never bother to learn anything to become "Better" and complaining they arent invited anywhere.

R.io helps to weed out people that dont deserve to be there, simple as that, people that refuse to accept their level and progress slowly and expect to skip out on stuff because "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?" mentality.

[LordVargK]

Raider.io has privacy settings, you can turn everything off so noone can see your score or even a webpage for your character there. You have to make an account for that though.

https://i.imgur.com/70bgCFU.png

Interesting. I mean, that's not really privacy, but it's something. Thanks!

Does this mean my score would be 0 for other players or would it show "N/A" or something like that?

[Seranthor]

Gearscore was terrible for the community for multiple reasons back in Wrath. Specifically, it made a divide in the player base that was unnecessary and promoted elitism.

We are witnessing Gearscore 2.0 with Raider.IO. While yes, it is helpful to have so you choose people who have the relative experience to what you key you are looking to push, it also diminishes the value of the player experience as a whole. We tend to choose players who have higher IO's than others, we choose players who are playing "meta" specs over others who may have a higher IO, but they are playing a Shadow priest. So, they are not chosen for the DPS spot.

We as a community have failed one another once again. I hope that Blizzard will step in at some point and remove Raider IO as a whole just as they did with Gearscore. Or, Blizzard will incorporate their own version of this addon into the game itself.

So Blizzard needs to save us from ourselves, is that your position? If so, what do you suggest that group/raid leaders do in order to quickly and efficiently screen potential group members?

[Guidance]

it's bad? yes; but some of us need it, how u will get a guy for +18~20key? if the dude with 475ilvl do less damage than a 440 dps in pugs?

most people don't want to have their runs ruined by bad people (although there are some who just want to be carried), the pug life is like that, the only way to solve this is to find a group / guild / etc to play together ,
and plp always complain about several things they chose to do, as if someone was forcing them to do it,

and in WOLTK GS it was basically ilvl, they still asked for achievements and many other things, and yet almost always there was someone trying to steal Deathbringer's Will
In my opinion Warcraft Logs / Details / Recount Hurt the game more than that, along with the lack of awareness of the wow community
Remember when you were rejected from the raid for having bad items, not knowing the fight or why you needed heroism or a certain class buff?
Nowadays you are refused because you are not the FAMOUS META CLASSES
it's not because the 10 biggest groups only have a warrior tank, in the 27 that makes it impossible to do a 15 with a DK tank

In the end what most changed was the players and the community, they talked so much about the classic and 90% can't enjoy the game because they are focused on bullshit or try hard,
Maybe wow will never be so good when it was when we were noobs and everything was new, there was no wowhead and these absurd sources of information, and we were forced to use the game chat to ask questions and pass on tips.

[Frolk]

Raider.io was made to combat the shear amount of terrible players, and im willing to bet 95% of players who want it removed, are the bad players.

You wanna take a chance to bring in any high ilvl player and gamble he is not gonna be shit in ur +15?

[Zenfoldor]

I've been saying it for a while now, but they should really handle is Raider IO like they did gearscore. Accept it as part of their game, bake their own version into the game, and set goals around it(also having the added benefit of being able to point players towards improvement in group content by setting goals with their baked in raider io).

First, the way it is now, raider.io is a big part of the game, but it isn't really a part of the game at all, is it. It is an addon. Something this important should be in the game so the content creators can educate the player about this concept. Things that fundamentally change the way we all play the game, should be part of the game. We should learn about them from the game. Otherwise, we are leaving players behind.

Second, raider.io COULD be used to address one of the biggest problems in the game, but instead it exacerbates it. Right now, raider.io increases rejections while only partially addressing the application side(through text based warnings in the description). If it was baked in, then it could be a FILTER in the group finder. That means you are only getting those who qualify to apply to your groups. Also, those who do not qualify would never see your group and thus never be rejected. It is a huge time-saver for both sides, and would be a big help to anyone forming a group who had specific parameters for raider.io.

Finally, the data provided could be more closely watched, to prevent unintended consequences, and to work within the structure of the game itself. I would think, primarily, the historical length of the data provided should be reduced to provide a snapshot of recent performance or a qualification for a minimum performance level, rather than a complete performance chronology.

[ping-pong]

Gearscore was terrible for the community for multiple reasons back in Wrath. Specifically, it made a divide in the player base that was unnecessary and promoted elitism.

We are witnessing Gearscore 2.0 with Raider.IO. While yes, it is helpful to have so you choose people who have the relative experience to what you key you are looking to push, it also diminishes the value of the player experience as a whole. We tend to choose players who have higher IO's than others, we choose players who are playing "meta" specs over others who may have a higher IO, but they are playing a Shadow priest. So, they are not chosen for the DPS spot.

We as a community have failed one another once again. I hope that Blizzard will step in at some point and remove Raider IO as a whole just as they did with Gearscore. Or, Blizzard will incorporate their own version of this addon into the game itself.

Just play the key you (and your class) can handle. If you think you can handle more, make your group and prove it, push your key. R.io will log it and people will see. You really don't wanna put people who invest serious time, research and preparation in a position to push high keys with dudes who're there just to chill. Nobody benefits from that.

The biggest problem are people who think that they can somehow handle a +25, but the whole system is working against them, so the best they did so far are +13. But they are skilled for +25, true story, if only someone invited them.

Push your own keys and try to do each week at least 1 level higher for each dungeon. Generally people will accept you for +23 if you already did that dungeon +22. They won't accept you in +23 if the highest key for any dungeon you've done is +12, and to top it off you have bad class. Some strats also require certain classes. That's a good thing. That's how it's supposed to be. Get a group of friends and push all dungeons fast, or take a slower route of pugging and progressing each dungeon by a point/2 here and there.

The system is good, just follow the rules and don't assume you're better then you actually are.