Raider IO needs to go. It's just as bad for the community as Gearscore was in WOTLK

[Better]

There's most likely always going to be a system like this going forward. You bring up the fact that it's Gearscore 2.0, but that's inaccurate, Gearscore 2.0 debuted in Cata, and it was called "Playerscore" It looked at gear, and how appropriate it was for your class, and also looked at what bosses you'd killed. 3.0 was MoP with Oqueue. I don't recall what WoD used because I didn't do any PuG content at all that expac. Then we finally landed on RaiderIO near the end of Legion.

It's likely this wont even be it's final form. We could see an entirely new system next expac, that will effectively do what you dislike about RaiderIO. This system isn't new, or unique but it's meant to - at a glance - allow you to judge whether you want somebody in your group or not. Unfortunately for most players (DPS) if your score isn't high enough there's very little reason to take you when right next to you on that list is somebody either higher Ilvl, or higher score.

This line is repeated again and again here, but only because it works. Start your own group. Yes it'll take time to find a tank/healer, but YOU get to set the requirements of the group. You don't have to conform to RaiderIO if you don't want to. You could require random fishing achievement links if you really want to, it's your group. If you do this and say; "But I get trolls/I get players who don't know what they're doing/etc." Yeah, that's the kind of thing RaiderIO is attempting to avoid.

[keldarepewpew]

The r.io addon shows up as additional information on the tooltip or in dungeon browser. If you do the privacy settings these additional info will simple not be shown, your char will look like it never did any m+. Players going to your character page at r.io will see a missing page and can conclude that you have the settings.

Your best runs will still show up on your official armory character page, can't deactivate there.

I suggest you try the addon for yourself to look which information it provides about you and other players. Then make an informed decision to turn your info off or not.

Effecitvly this will turn you intO a pariah cause people will think you are hiding something.

[Relapses]

Im butthurt that people always think so narrowminded that they believe that they need mdi players to finish a 15 or that they need to stack whatever classes they saw in the mdi. Things like groupfinder and rio facilitate this behaviour. Im not saying its the cause, bit it does make it easier to do the barrier for looking at a number or checking achievements is not the same.

1.) By your own admission, you don't do a lot M+.
2.) If you did do a lot M+, you'd understand that rejection from groups is just how the system works.
3.) For every group that rejects you, there's a dozen or more groups that might accept you. If you did more than 5 groups a month, you'd realize this.
4.) Instead of moving on with your life, you're trying to justify the actions of players who may have a decision for any number of reasons which had nothing to do with you as a player.

[Hilaw]

Players who cry about raider.io are 99% of time horrible players. Make your own group if you don't like it. Everyone gets too much free gear so it's impossible to pick decent players without raider.io

[T-34]

Gearscore is what got me to give up raiding in WotLK. Absolutely in agreement, but how do we stop the community poisoning itself with this stuff? They'll just make another addon. Many people would rather "be efficient" than play a video game. It's why we see, with infinitely more ability to be efficient with literal foresight, what's happening in Classic.

I find it fun to be "efficient" and "good". So you want to deny me my fun?
Thanks to Raider IO I can finally stop playing with shitters and I am having more fun this way.
And all the shitters should be happy now, because they can play together without "toxic" and "elitist" players.

But... but... the shitters are still complaining.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the shitters don't give a flying fuck about "toxicity", "elitism" and/or "dividing the community".
The shitters only care, and have only ever cared, about being carried by competent players. And when competent players don't want to play with them they throw baby tantrums like the OP.

But shitters also pay 12 euros a month so Blizzard is doing everything in their power to make them think that they are good players and make it difficult for good players to filter out the shitters.
So good players have to jump through a lot of hoops to find players of similar skill and mindset and avoid the shitters.

If I were religious I would mention Raider IO in my evening prayers.
Infracted

[Marrilaife]

Its been 4 years now etc, but you can understand the importance of it during the start of the expansion, same with Legion and BFA, having Mythic "raidurs" applying and being completely inadequate trash players because gear is irrelevant if you dont know what the fuck you are doing after a certain scaling.

Same logic with people that never bother to learn anything to become "Better" and complaining they arent invited anywhere.

R.io helps to weed out people that dont deserve to be there, simple as that, people that refuse to accept their level and progress slowly and expect to skip out on stuff because "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?" mentality.

This comment reminded me of of all the 4.5k r.io "pros" that are applying to the "mythic raidur" guilds and prove to be completely trash in a raid setting. The difference? Nobody logs m+ so nobody knows if your r.io is your work or you've been just carried. At least in raiding there are logs so it's more apparent who was the floor inspector and got carried to 12/12. R.io is sadly an equivalent of "link curve for invite" so it works somehow at the medium level but there are a lot of people who either got a paid boost or got carried by friends / guildies and then lord over others how much superior players they are due to their r.io even though they're nothing special.

What's the most annoying is people trying to "min max" stuff at the level that should be considered casual. It's the same problem in m+, raiding or pvp.

[Dimad]

I dont see the point in removing r.io, i do m+ with my guild only but people want some metric, no matter how faulty it is, to go by. A person can have a 3k r.io but not know how to even do the dungon.

[Relapses]

This comment reminded me of of all the 4.5k r.io "pros" that are applying to the "mythic raidur" guilds and prove to be completely trash in a raid setting. The difference? Nobody logs m+ so nobody knows if your r.io is your work or you've been just carried. At least in raiding there are logs so it's more apparent who was the floor inspector and got carried to 12/12. R.io is sadly an equivalent of "link curve for invite" so it works somehow at the medium level but there are a lot of people who either got a paid boost or got carried by friends / guildies and then lord over others how much superior players they are due to their r.io even though they're nothing special.

What's the most annoying is people trying to "min max" stuff at the level that should be considered casual. It's the same problem in m+, raiding or pvp.

That's a bit of a false equivalency. Most 4k+ IO players I know raid as well and it's arguable that for certain specs it's almost impossible to grind IO past a certain point because some of the best gear in the game is still locked behind Cara/N'Zoth. Some guilds (still) do private logs as well.

[Violent]

I've found a number of twitch streamers that I would have never watched if not for R.IO. I imagine many other players are the same way. If you don't think that's fostering a community, I don't know what to tell you. Both Dratnos and Tettles, both MDI hosts, also frequently submit articles and just recently casted 10+ hours a day for top M+ teams during the last push week. So yeah, it's not just the add-on at this point. If anything, it's more bullshit to think that simply because a website isn't "officially" sanctioned by Blizzard that it's somehow fostering bad player behavior..

You completely missed my point, all because you and a few twitch watchers/streamers have centered yourselves and gameplay around a fuckin addon, so you think that's the entire game?
And Yeah it fostering shit playing.. Just like the addon that tells who the healers are in BGs... You should already know what/who to look for to kill. If an addon constantly tells you the right answer, you'll never learn anything.. This is true of many things, we already know this, and to just deny it and say it doesn't exists is just biased.

Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he'll eat forever. Too many people RELY on an addon to play the game properly, this is poor form.

[agentsi]

Gearscore was terrible for the community for multiple reasons back in Wrath. Specifically, it made a divide in the player base that was unnecessary and promoted elitism.

We are witnessing Gearscore 2.0 with Raider.IO. While yes, it is helpful to have so you choose people who have the relative experience to what you key you are looking to push, it also diminishes the value of the player experience as a whole. We tend to choose players who have higher IO's than others, we choose players who are playing "meta" specs over others who may have a higher IO, but they are playing a Shadow priest. So, they are not chosen for the DPS spot.

We as a community have failed one another once again. I hope that Blizzard will step in at some point and remove Raider IO as a whole just as they did with Gearscore. Or, Blizzard will incorporate their own version of this addon into the game itself.

Everything you stated, is 100% wrong.

The M+ community needs raider.io. If you've ever run a 15-20, and that 478 DPS, with a 1k score, only does 35k DPS for the entire run, there's a good reason for that. He's bad. No other way around it. Maybe he's a good player without the proper talents or the wrong corruptions. But something is off with him. I would take a 470 player, with a 2-3k score over a 480 player with a 1k score. Every single time. The score is a direct representation of what you're capable of doing in a group. And I have yet to really see anyone with a 2k-3k score do "awful". Maybe its a bad week for their spec, but their ST dps would show that.

[Relapses]

You completely missed my point, all because you and a few twitch watchers/streamers have centered yourselves and gameplay around a fuckin addon, so you think that's the entire game?
And Yeah it fostering shit playing.. Just like the addon that tells who the healers are in BGs... You should already know what/who to look for to kill. If an addon constantly tells you the right answer, you'll never learn anything.. This is true of many things, we already know this, and to just deny it and say it doesn't exists is just biased.

Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he'll eat forever. Too many people RELY on an addon to play the game properly, this is poor form.

I mean, I enjoy doing dungeons so I enjoy watching and interacting with other people who do dungeons? That's suddenly a bad thing? Why do you care so much about how people choose to build communities for themselves? I mean, fuck, you're posting this on a fan run website my dude. Just a faint bit ironic.

[Puupi]

Pugging is mostly for social recluses anyway, an addon is not going to change that for better or worse. The latter part of this tier was the first time I was actually pugging in my WoW history due to so many guildies going inactive so we had to fill our m+ with people from the tool. Most people are either toxic, idiots, asocial or unable to speak English. I rather play with the idiots I know than use that Tinder ever again.

[Zuido]

I dont get this. i would assume that you also dont like master loot aswell. Remove r.io and it will be replaced with something else and whatever that something else is, is for people that want to use it. It really is that simple, you dont like it? dont use it. Do you really think that removing r.io is going to make you wanna be friends or pug with a player who previously used it(assuming they somehow removed r.io), no.. you would not. Removing r.io isnt going to change that players mindset, its literally how they wanna play. Its like someone saying that they want pet battles to be removed because you can get reputation from it(nazjatar and mechagon for example) and they feel like it forces them to do that content they dont like because of it. like..no, you dont have to do that. That content is there for those that enjoy it.
As i said before, i really dont get you people. You dont like r.io? thats fine and im sure there are plenty of people out there just like you. Go look for those people and play with them. Why are you putting your nose where it doesnt belong. Its like if i would go out there and complain about a group of people who arent using r.io and i want them to use it because im forced to play with them somehow? No. I just move on and look for people that are like me. It really is that simple.

[Trend]

Gearscore was terrible for the community for multiple reasons back in Wrath. Specifically, it made a divide in the player base that was unnecessary and promoted elitism.

We are witnessing Gearscore 2.0 with Raider.IO. While yes, it is helpful to have so you choose people who have the relative experience to what you key you are looking to push, it also diminishes the value of the player experience as a whole. We tend to choose players who have higher IO's than others, we choose players who are playing "meta" specs over others who may have a higher IO, but they are playing a Shadow priest. So, they are not chosen for the DPS spot.

We as a community have failed one another once again. I hope that Blizzard will step in at some point and remove Raider IO as a whole just as they did with Gearscore. Or, Blizzard will incorporate their own version of this addon into the game itself.

burner account ... check

regurgitated and tired drivel ... check

random conflation of unrelated issues ... check

All in all, I would say it's a really solid thread.

[Marrilaife]

That's a bit of a false equivalency. Most 4k+ IO players I know raid as well

Maybe, I just have a bad experience with about 2-3 demon hunters, a rogue and a resto druid, all of them talking high and mighty about their m+ accomplishments and then being extremely underwhelming when actually slotted in the raid.

The thing is if we raided heroic, these people would probably be fine, just not fine when slotted on the harder mythic bosses. The same is true for all these "no r.io mythic raidurrs" they would fail at pushing very high keys but they're probably just fine to do a weekly chest run.

The problem with the community is demanding only people who are routinely timing +20s to be suitable to join a weekly +15 run. It's as if pugging heroic raid required cutting edge to join.

[T-34]

Maybe, I just have a bad experience with about 2-3 demon hunters, a rogue and a resto druid, all of them talking high and mighty about their m+ accomplishments and then being extremely underwhelming when actually slotted in the raid.

The thing is if we raided heroic, these people would probably be fine, just not fine when slotted on the harder mythic bosses. The same is true for all these "no r.io mythic raidurrs" they would fail at pushing very high keys but they're probably just fine to do a weekly chest run.

The problem with the community is demanding only people who are routinely timing +20s to be suitable to join a weekly +15 run. It's as if pugging heroic raid required cutting edge to join.

People who make their own raids/dungeon groups can demand whatever they want from prospective applicants. If people join their groups then the demands were reasonable or else people wouldn't join. If nobody joins their group then their demands were unreasonable. It is very simple.

The only way to combat what YOU see as unreasonable demands is to make your own group with your own demands.

Raider IO is wonderful as it gives a quite accurate estimate of a persons experience, and to some extent skill, with mythic+ content.
If nobody wants you in their group it is not a "them-problem", it is a "you-problem".

[Zuido]

The problem with the community is demanding only people who are routinely timing +20s to be suitable to join a weekly +15 run. It's as if pugging heroic raid required cutting edge to join.

If people wanna be dumb or act dumb, id say let them. I honestly dont even waste another second on a pug group where their group title in lfg says something along the lines of *2.2k R.IO, min ilvl 480* and its a +14 or a +15 key for a weekly. 9 out of 10 times(feels like im being generous here) the person who made that group is an idiot or thinks that he/she is smart and is able to get some decent players to boost em. Im not gonna go out of my way to blame r.io for people doing dumb things like that.

[Powerogue]

Looking through the posts I think I can see the divide a lot more clearly.

Some players want to play a video game with people. That's the appeal. My favorite dungeon experience went terribly. We all sucked, and we slowly dragged ourselves through a mythic 5 man Evergrowth in WOD if I recall. But none of us wanted to give up. We CC'd and evaded trash pulls, we learned from every wipe on the boss and tried new things, and after many grueling hours of repair bills, beat it together.

Some players want to win. It's not about the people, except their position as below themselves. Each and every resource must be exploited to win, get the best equipment to win harder, beat the strongest content, then lord it over everyone else. This isn't a game, it's a competition.

Currently the game is catering to both of them. Is that a problem? What could be done better?

[Zuido]

Looking through the posts I think I can see the divide a lot more clearly.

Some players want to play a video game with people. That's the appeal. My favorite dungeon experience went terribly. We all sucked, and we slowly dragged ourselves through a mythic 5 man Evergrowth in WOD if I recall. But none of us wanted to give up. We CC'd and evaded trash pulls, we learned from every wipe on the boss and tried new things, and after many grueling hours of repair bills, beat it together.

Some players want to win. It's not about the people, except their position as below themselves. Each and every resource must be exploited to win, get the best equipment to win harder, beat the strongest content, then lord it over everyone else. This isn't a game, it's a competition.

Currently the game is catering to both of them. Is that a problem? What could be done better?

You missed 1 group. The group that wants everything handed to them with their demands and if you dont agree with them, they will make a similar thread to this 1 where the person feels like r.io is ruining the game experience for them. When in reality they are just too lazy to put their own group together or take time to look for likeminded people to do whatever they want to do. This is also why master loot was removed. Its the same people. Too lazy to open their mouth before,during or after the raid/dungeon that they wanted personal loot etc and the funny thing is those people are usually the ones that put in zero effort, the dps that you have to scroll down in your damage meter to find them or tanks/healers that have no clue what they are doing.

[neik]

This topic has been discussed many times. There is no high quality mythic plus without the RIO.