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  1. #121
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    It's Activision. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised.
    This.

    Furthermore, if people truly care then they should vote with their wallets and stop financially supporting a company whose practices they disagree with. Many won't, though, since they're far too addicted.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Shitty capitalist systems are shitty for everyone but the very few percent at the top.

    What a surprise. uNiONs ArE SoCiAlIST!
    Could you dish out individual criticism to the higher-ups at Activision-Blizzard who feel they need 30 million or so a year to maintain their lavish lifestyles or is it going to be a generic memetic "durr capitalism bad" in order to avoid indicting your favorite products?

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    This.

    Furthermore, if people truly care then they should vote with their wallets and stop financially supporting a company whose practices they disagree with. Many won't, though, since they're far too addicted.
    It's more like most people like to make themselves look like the good guy but, in reality, they don't give a shit since it doesn't impact them personally. I haven't given my money to Activision Blizzard in YEARS now. Much betters game out there that aren't run by companies that treat their employees like trash.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by The-Shan View Post
    Blizzard pays significantly less than competitors, that's part of the problem.
    Are those competitors located in Silicon Valley, CA? Because those outside California can afford to pay more for various reasons. The main one being competition. There are so many skilled IT workers/programmers in SV that it drives the wages down.
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  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Shan View Post
    Blizzard pays significantly less than competitors, that's part of the problem.
    Blizzard can pay less because people WANT to work there. If no-one wanted to work for blizz they would HAVE to increase pay.

    Getting the short-end of a stick isn't fun for anyone, but if you think you deserver more money, ask for a raise or get a job somewhere else where they'll more than likely pay more for the same job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    this change is to help players like you..... you know..night elf with tyrannical beheader...

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  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    I'm not saying that at all. It is the market that determines value. Do you think companies want to pay their CEOs that much?
    You're spouting theory when we are discussing reality.
    When I despair, I remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible.
    But in the end, they always fall. Always.- Mahatma Gandhi


  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It's not unique to Blizzard. It's the VFX/game industry in general. Blizzard does happen to pay less than industry standards, but let's not pretend the industry is standardized or that a wage gap doesn't exist between specialized roles (designers, programmers) and low level grunt work.
    We've seen information showing that the pay is low for the positions being discussed here, which are entry level positions getting entry level pay. In Blizzard's case (and many others as some posters have already cited) this is exacerbated by the fact that the cost of living near the place of employment is high. But as stated, this is not a problem unique to Blizzard, and is common across many game developers.

    Where is the source that shows Blizzard specifically pays lower than the industry standard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    This.

    Furthermore, if people truly care then they should vote with their wallets and stop financially supporting a company whose practices they disagree with. Many won't, though, since they're far too addicted.
    If that's your take you should be boycotting/ voting with your wallet against pretty much every video game developer because they all follow similar practices. Blizzard is not unique in regards to this.

    I'm not saying what's going on is OK, but it's not just Blizzard that's doing it so it's a little unfair to pick on only Blizzard when many others are doing it to. The industry as a whole needs to change, not just one big name company within it.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Where is the source that shows Blizzard specifically pays lower than the industry standard?
    Me, since I work in the industry, applied for Blizz and passed on seeing the pay in comparison to what I was already making. I have also had friends enter Blizzard straight out of the same school I went to, and heard first hand how they were trying to make ends meet while working on TBC. Anecdotally speaking, a lot of would-be developers (entry level artists, designers, programmers) use Blizzard as a jumping point for their career. There's also the perk of working on passion projects, and working up the ranks for those able to. But I wouldn't say it's a wage that I'd start or support a family with unless you get lucky in snagging a higher level position. Again, living expenses and rent factoring into the actual wage numbers here.

    Just to clarify, the positions that I talk about that were lower than industry standard were developer positions, and not the min-wage QA or GM positions that was reported in the article; I don't know anyone personally who works in GM/QA at Blizzard. On that topic, those are already generally low-paying positions, so it all varies on what level of QA and what the potential is for moving up. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if QA was being outsourced to India nowadays (anecdote, not insider info). I'm not denying anything listed in the report, rather I point out that it's not a very balanced article considering it's not factoring in a lot of reasoning behind wage gap, factoring living expenses and other things that affect the industry across the board.

    Take that as you will.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-08-04 at 07:31 PM.

  9. #129
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Are those competitors located in Silicon Valley, CA? Because those outside California can afford to pay more for various reasons. The main one being competition. There are so many skilled IT workers/programmers in SV that it drives the wages down.
    It's important to include benefits as well as paychecks. I don't know what Blizzard's benefits package looks like but just stopping at "they pay less" is too simple. In my last job before I retired my benefits were close to half of my total compensation. That was with pretty much a full free ride on health insurance, including dental, vision and prescriptions. I very much doubt that CSR's and play testers are getting much in the way of benefits but you wouldn't necessarily expect them too either. Those are entry-level hourly jobs.

    I very much agree that the entire industry is a mess. It's not just Blizzard, it's pretty much everyone.

    As an aside, I'm betting that most people here would be surprised at how many jobs in media, on-air announcers at radio stations, etc. are also minimum-wage gigs when you start out.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2020-08-04 at 07:16 PM.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspark View Post
    This company is on my permanent boycott list, and has been since Nov 2018. "Do not do business with for any reason" basically. At that time, I removed all of their products from every device I own and deleted all my accounts. I do not regret my decision one bit...in fact every few months since then they have done something new that vindicates my decision even more.
    <br>
    <br>Yet they still have you handcuffed to their games because you're on a forum aimed at talking about their games.&nbsp; Sucks doesn't it? &nbsp;
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  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    Yes, the compensation has skyrocketed, but the question is why. No compensation can occur without revenue. The size and scope of business has changed. Amazon provides a service for hundreds of millions of people who voluntarily utilize that service. This growth has not changed the average worker's job at all. They still drive the trucks, stack the boxes, etc. so their pay has remained relatively (inflation and such aside) similar with the numbers of employees increasing to match the greater scope, but the CEOs are required to run much larger and more complex businesses as a single individual. Since there are not many people capable of running such companies, the boards in charge of hiring such people use lavish incentives to lure the best candidates.

    Are CEOs over paid? Probably, but there is not some sinister plan to overpay them, but rather companies are overestimating their value to the organization. If you are looking to have your car repaired, you look for the cheapest mechanic, but also one that can do the job. You may pay extra for a better or faster job. It is the same in business, they don't want to pay CEOs a ton of money, but are choosing to do so as they believe it to be cost effective.
    Why, it is easy to give 1 person a lump sum raise over giving everybody a few pennies here and there. Multiply that a few times and add in time and things snowball out of control. Everybody wants more money, the difference at the top is those people have much more control over getting it.
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  12. #132
    So gutting games and making them hollow husks designed to rip off whales addicted to the game pays 40mill a year? Good work if you can get it. Grats bobby
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  13. #133
    The Lightbringer gutnbrg's Avatar
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    so basically blizzard is just like every other company thats ever been created? Why are customer service representatives complaining about minimum wage? Thats what u get paid for answering phones all day...how much do u want? You have a job that required no schooling or training.

  14. #134
    The Insane Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    not rly,plenty of CEO's have cut their own benefits and salaries to keep empleyees
    Not in U.S. mega corporations lmao

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Not in U.S. mega corporations lmao
    Gaming really went full-shit when Iwata died, man was too good for this world.

  16. #136
    Banned Thee ANCOM's Avatar
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    good, Bobby Kotick doesn't desserve another penny.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Me, since I work in the industry, applied for Blizz and passed on seeing the pay in comparison to what I was already making. I have also had friends enter Blizzard straight out of the same school I went to, and heard first hand how they were trying to make ends meet while working on TBC. Anecdotally speaking, a lot of would-be developers (entry level artists, designers, programmers) use Blizzard as a jumping point for their career. There's also the perk of working on passion projects, and working up the ranks for those able to. But I wouldn't say it's a wage that I'd start or support a family with unless you get lucky in snagging a higher level position. Again, living expenses and rent factoring into the actual wage numbers here.
    Not debating what you're saying is true or not. But this isn't really conclusive evidence that Blizzard pays less than the industry standard. The industry standard (for any industry) isn't a single number, it's a range based on several factors. You making more than what that specific Blizzard position advertised for isn't proof they pay less than the standard, just that you were already being paid more than what they were advertising for that position. I specify "as advertised" because salary is somewhat negotiable, typically, so you can't JUST go by the numbers they list publicly, as you might be able to get more than that. The range exists because there's an average for what that position typically gets paid, and what a specific company is willing to pay YOU to do it. Sometimes that's more than the average, and sometimes that's less, again, based on several factors.

    Companies will almost always try and low ball the salary, in regards to the salary range, because they want to save money.....they ARE a business and money is important so they won't spend more than they have to. But that doesn't mean you have to take that low ball wage. If you do take it, without trying to get more or discussing salary in more detail...that's just as much on you as it is them.

  18. #138
    Banned Thee ANCOM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Not in U.S. mega corporations lmao
    they get golden parachutes when they run their businesses into the ground.

  19. #139
    Pandaren Monk Tabrotar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    Yes, the compensation has skyrocketed, but the question is why. No compensation can occur without revenue. The size and scope of business has changed. Amazon provides a service for hundreds of millions of people who voluntarily utilize that service. This growth has not changed the average worker's job at all. They still drive the trucks, stack the boxes, etc. so their pay has remained relatively (inflation and such aside) similar with the numbers of employees increasing to match the greater scope, but the CEOs are required to run much larger and more complex businesses as a single individual. Since there are not many people capable of running such companies, the boards in charge of hiring such people use lavish incentives to lure the best candidates.

    Are CEOs over paid? Probably, but there is not some sinister plan to overpay them, but rather companies are overestimating their value to the organization. If you are looking to have your car repaired, you look for the cheapest mechanic, but also one that can do the job. You may pay extra for a better or faster job. It is the same in business, they don't want to pay CEOs a ton of money, but are choosing to do so as they believe it to be cost effective.
    CEOs ar eoverpaid stupid fucks who more then often fuck things up which then will cost hundred if not thausands of normal workers their jobs while these little fuckers will get paid millions if they leave...

  20. #140
    Banned Thee ANCOM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    CEOs ar eoverpaid stupid fucks who more then often fuck things up which then will cost hundred if not thausands of normal workers their jobs while these little fuckers will get paid millions if they leave...
    for example what happend last year to all those epsorts people being laid off.

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