Page 8 of 26 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
18
... LastLast
  1. #141
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    12,851
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    Then why do people choose to work there?
    Because working at Blizzard looks great on your resume. Also, because people who are passionate about Blizzard games are being exploited.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - Druid / Steam / MyAnimeList / IMDB - - - - - - - - - - - -

  2. #142
    Immortal Stormspark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Columbus OH
    Posts
    7,763
    Quote Originally Posted by headfistass View Post
    good, Bobby Kotick doesn't desserve another penny.
    He won't ever be getting another penny from me. Even if Diablo 4 comes out and is the best thing ever (I guarantee it won't be, I guarantee it will be a pile of crap just like everything else from that shovelware developer these days), I will pass on it.

  3. #143
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    12,851
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    I am all for these people getting better wages. I do wonder how many of the people that are going to get upset over and article like this will also flip their lid at the suggestion of say subscription prices or game costs going up.
    Blizzard a multi-billion dollar corporation. They can afford to pay their employees decent wages and still make a ton of money.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - Druid / Steam / MyAnimeList / IMDB - - - - - - - - - - - -

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    But this isn't really conclusive evidence that Blizzard pays less than the industry standard. The industry standard (for any industry) isn't a single number, it's a range based on several factors.
    I think you answered your own question here.

    It's impossible to provide conclusive evidence if there is no real quantifiable standard to begin with. I mean, what you're actually bringing up here is not factual, only something that is simply regarded and agreed upon. We can't talk about this as if though you can prove it in a court of law; by law there is no quantifiable legitimacy behind QA testers being paid min wage as substandard.

    And I stated anecdotally, as someone who has worked at a fair number of companies including at an Activision Blizzard subsidiary, the wages at Blizzard were low to me and all the people I've known who worked there. It's an anecdote, and I said take it as you will. I'm not here to convince you of anything. I'm simply providing my perspective on this topic.

    Companies will almost always try and low ball the salary, in regards to the salary range, because they want to save money.....they ARE a business and money is important so they won't spend more than they have to.
    Yes. And I don't think I've ever stated anything in contrary to this.

    I simply stated their pay was lower to what I was making/expecting, even if benefits factored in. It doesn't make me unaware of why companies want to lowball people, like I said I work in the industry.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-08-04 at 08:58 PM.

  5. #145
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    12,851
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Are we supposed to be outraged a programmer makes more then a customer service rep or a play tester.
    The pay disparity isn't the problem. It's the some people aren't even being paid living wages. The cost of living in Irvine and Austin is very expensive, and some people have to resort to carpooling, using Ubers, and cutting meals because their wages simply isn't enough for them to get by normally.

    Go to GlassDoorReviews and read employee reviews on Blizzard for yourself.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - Druid / Steam / MyAnimeList / IMDB - - - - - - - - - - - -

  6. #146
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,545
    One thing too is that often corporations don't just compare salaries, they look at total compensation (salary, health benefits, education benefits, company retirement contributions, etc.) and that's the big "secret" cost number tied to each employee. On top of making salary murky to compare in that way, they also will sometimes include subjective benefits in the formula that aren't direct dollars. Things like office location, or is it a prestigious company to work for. And those things are factored in by HR when your salary is set.

    The other problem is that the more murky your formulas for determining salary are (or bonuses ftm) the more difficult it is to keep them fair. If it's that complex to come to a number it's easy to fudge here and there to give favorites a higher salary. And you end up before long with managers giving their buddies that they hang out with outside of work higher raises, more promotions, a bigger share of bonuses, etc. That happens often in the corporate world. Things like raises or promotions are usually left to the discretion of a team lead or manager, and that's where salaries can really get out of whack.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    The pay disparity isn't the problem. It's the some people aren't even being paid living wages. The cost of living in Irvine and Austin is very expensive, and some people have to resort to carpooling, using Ubers, and cutting meals because their wages simply isn't enough for them to get by normally.

    Go to GlassDoorReviews and read employee reviews on Blizzard for yourself.
    Then earn a skill the pays a living wage?

    I don't get why people struggle with this.

  8. #148
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    12,851
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Lets see, engineer. A highly complex job you have to be smart and train for getting over 100k a year or a game tester/ customer service rep that just plays a game or reads from a script getting minimum wage. Sounds right to me. Im not going to pay someone 100k to read from set questions about how to deal with customers. And im not paying someone 100k a year to test my game.
    This attitude is part of the problem. Sure, QA doesn't require going to college, but it is still a laborious, tedious, and very stressful position that is sadly neglected and underappreciated in this industry. They are worked overtime, often insulted by the dev team, and are barely paid liveable wages for where their jobs are located at (Irvine, Los Angeles, Austin, Ontario).

    I'd recommend you watch Daniel Campbell's videos on what being in QA is really like.
    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2020-08-04 at 08:54 PM.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - Druid / Steam / MyAnimeList / IMDB - - - - - - - - - - - -

  9. #149
    Banned Thee ANCOM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    "so much hatred"
    Posts
    623
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Then earn a skill the pays a living wage?

    I don't get why people struggle with this.
    I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you believe higer education shouldn't be free? I'd love to be wrong here.

  10. #150
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    12,851
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    Never forget record profits with record layoffs.
    Don't forget laying off people who had accumulated raises in pay over the years, and then immediately hiring fresh new faces to replace their positions, simply because you can pay them lower wages because they don't have years of accumulated raises in pay.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - Druid / Steam / MyAnimeList / IMDB - - - - - - - - - - - -

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    [SNIP]
    And my only point is that this situation is not unique to Blizzard, other companies follow similar business practices and that it's the industry that has a problem, not Blizzard specifically.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    And my only point is that this situation is not unique to Blizzard, other companies follow similar business practices and that it's the industry that has a problem, not Blizzard specifically.
    I pointed that out already.

    It's not specific to Blizzard. I think that's generally agreed upon here.

    Yet Blizzard does pay lower relatively to other companies. That is also something that is known amongst those in the industry. Hell it's even in the article. It's not a surprise for me to hear, though I know it is a surprise to others who may be expecting higher pay across the board from a big, highly profitable game company.

    Your point isn't contending with anything that I've said. It goes along with it.

    Like if I said the tomatoes they use in the salad I get every day are a bit tart. Even if tart tomatoes are not unique to my salad, it doesn't change what I said about my salad.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-08-04 at 09:09 PM.

  13. #153
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    12,851
    Quote Originally Posted by Otimus View Post
    Unions. Unions are the answer. America needs to stop treating unions like a dirty word.
    The problem is that the games industry has 1. a low barrier to entry, and 2. there are a LOT of people who are passionate about games - people who REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want to make games - and thus will tolerate non-liveable wages, few to no benefits, and an awful work life, just to make games. And if those people protest, well, there are millions of other wannabe game developers who will settle for less. It's terrible.

    People have pointed out that the voice acting unionized, but the American VA industry is relatively small and you don't have the sheer number of people entering it every year like the games industry has.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - Druid / Steam / MyAnimeList / IMDB - - - - - - - - - - - -

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    I thought the left saw to that? They're the ones who want social stuff, right? The right is every man for himself?
    Yes, the right is every man for them-self.

    Which has led to unshackled capitalism increasing the cost of housing to unsustainable levels. The government is too scared to piss off rich people to do anything about it, and we're left with people paying 60%, 70%, of their income, sometimes more, in rent in cities.

    Buying a home is an unrealistic goal for the vast majority of workers living in cities.

    The american dream is dead in cities. And no, I don't think "just build more homes" will solve anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Then earn a skill the pays a living wage?

    I don't get why people struggle with this.
    Ya lemme just get into 10's of thousands of dollars in debt to learn a skill I might end up not even liking, while continuing to work full time to pay my absurdly high rent.

    Sigh.

  15. #155
    Scarab Lord Triggered Fridgekin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    4,917
    The power of brand loyalty as well as the idea that there is some prestige with working for Blizzard while at the same time being shafted.
    A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Otimus View Post
    Unions. Unions are the answer. America needs to stop treating unions like a dirty word.
    Unions would actually complicate the matter.

    VFX and Games industry works on a deficit, and with unions I would imagine companies would begin to rely more on outsourcing or other methods of production. I mean, a lot of art is already outsourced overseas, a union isn't going to stop that.

    Also union dues are not cheap, and it'll be another barrier of entry for people who want to get into the industry. QA could make more per hour but also would they're paying a significant portion of their wage to the Union, works out great doesn't it?
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-08-04 at 09:46 PM.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I pointed that out already.

    It's not specific to Blizzard. I think that's generally agreed upon here.

    Yet Blizzard does pay lower relatively to other companies. That is also something that is known amongst those in the industry. Hell it's even in the article. It's not a surprise for me to hear, though I know it is a surprise to others who may be expecting higher pay across the board from a big, highly profitable game company.

    Your point isn't contending with anything that I've said. It goes along with it.
    Wasn't intending for it to contend with anything. I'm still just not convinced Blizzard compensation is lower than the industry standard/average, as I haven't seen anything other than anecdotes saying so.

    All I'm seeing in the article is discussion about the the wage disparity between high and low rung workers and the difficulty the lower rung workers have in making ends meet given the low wage and high cost of living they have due to the area they're basically forced to live in. Which as you've already touched on is not unique to Blizzard. Nothing about Blizzard paying less than other companies, the only piece of it that might be construed like that is the point where they say employees couldn't get bigger pay increases without going to another company. Employees within the same company get relatively small raises over time, but jumping to another company CAN result in a single significant pay increase. That's common across every industry and does not prove that Blizzard is paying less than the industry average/standard, though.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Wasn't intending for it to contend with anything. I'm still just not convinced Blizzard compensation is lower than the industry standard/average, as I haven't seen anything other than anecdotes saying so.

    All I'm seeing in the article is discussion about the the wage disparity between high and low rung workers and the difficulty the lower rung workers have in making ends meet given the low wage and high cost of living they have due to the area they're basically forced to live in. Which as you've already touched on is not unique to Blizzard. Nothing about Blizzard paying less than other companies, the only piece of it that might be construed like that is the point where they say employees couldn't get bigger pay increases without going to another company. Employees within the same company get relatively small raises over time, but jumping to another company CAN result in a single significant pay increase. That's common across every industry and does not prove that Blizzard is paying less than the industry average/standard, though.
    To be honest I'm still not sure why you're replying then since I've stated pretty clearly that everything i'm saying is an anecdote, and we're both aware that you're not convinced without proof. There's really nothing for me to say here, it seems like you just want to vocalize your thoughts. Nothing wrong with that, I'm just a bit confused at the replies.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-08-04 at 10:00 PM.

  19. #159
    The idea that testing is not a skilled job is totally wrong.

    To be a good tester you need a certain set of skills that not everyone has, you need to be highly analytical, you need to be a good communicator, you need to be empathetic when dealing with developers, you need to have a good knowledge of the functionality and technical architecture of the product you are working on, when you get a design or requirement come through you need to be able to analyse that and spot problems with existing systems/functionality, you need to be able to spot when there are mistakes in the design/specifications, you need to be able to approach testing from both a functional perspective and from a usability perspective

    If you view testing as an unskilled job that anyone can do then you are going to end up with a garbage product.

  20. #160
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Empire of Man
    Posts
    6,689
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    Then why do people choose to work there?
    Because its a job.....

    You would be surprised how many people really fear not having a job, and even if you are payed shit, having a job is better than not having it.

    But that does not excuse being under-payed for the job you do. Good companies should want happy employees, who feel secure in their job and wage, and who likes to work at where they work. If you work full-time or as much as your job will allow, you should not be struggling to make ends meet.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •