Picking up Sub Rogue again - maybe for SL? Opinions/experiences/thoughts

[Bearded Sith]

This isn't much of a post outside of me sharing my personal opinions which likely won't align with the diehard Rogues out there.

I haven't played Rogue steadily (outside of getting it to max level and letting it sit until the next xpac) since Cataclysm. I main'ed a Rogue in the first couple of raids in Cata and had a blast doing it. Where that feeling changed, I honestly don't know. But a couple of weeks ago I got my beta invitation so I wanted to try out several classes to see how they "feel" and how I perceive them during my gameplay through questing and Torghast.

Primarily I've been playing Subtlety and so far I'm really enjoying it. After tinkering with it on the beta I decided I might actually try my "live" Rogue out and see how it performs. Man is it night-and-day. Shadowlands feels a lot more fun and engaging (especially if you choose Maldraxxus as your covenant) and seems to perform pretty well. Mostly I've been rotating between the Rogue and my Death Knight on the beta. Being such a prominent "Death" expansion I really feel like I need to play my DK, but after several years of playing it exclusively with a Druid, I feel like I need to try something different.

I guess the main reason I'm posting this is I'm curious what other beta testers felt about Subtlety, Rogue, and they're "performance" in Torghast. I've cleared everything I've set forth to clear in Torghast and The Maw decently easy with the Rogue, outside of some squishiness, I haven't encountered many problems. Does it feel squishy to others, too? Granted, I'm using a premade character template, so I'm not actually using my own "live" Rogue copied over.

My only real complaint so far is that it feels like most fights I have to pop just about every defensive I have to not die. And sometimes I still end up getting wrecked. Am I doing something wrong? Being so rusty at the class, I can't imagine I'm playing it optimally.

I definitely see a lot of area for improvement to Rogues - notably some of their covenant abilities and talents, but overall it seems enjoyable and even though Torghast has mostly "NYI" bonuses, it too still seem enjoyable.

[Coldkil]

Don't have the beta, so cannot give feedback.

Anyway, pretty happy to hear this. I mean, anything that's not Legion and BfA after the "Zul gutting" was going to be better - but the important part is to greally get the right feeling for the spec. If it's fun to play, nothing else really matters.

As for squishiness, it's both because of the template and the fact it's the expansion start. Not optimized and generally low level gear makes you feel squishy as fights are longer and you cannot kill stuff in a few globals. Something that's the opposite in BfA where you can tackle easily 2 or 3mil hp elites. Also agree on the "playing optimally" part.

I'm just waiting for the full reveal of the legendaries etc.

[Bearded Sith]

One thing I did notice, is I originally started off with Bastion as my covenant and it was AWFUL. That stupid bastion ability is just god awful and needs to be changed. Outside of that, I haven't tried the other two, but I plan on it after the reset.

[Dracowolf]

I am sure the devs are still working out some tweaks with all classes, and will continue to strike for class balance throughout the early months after release

[Bearded Sith]

I can't tell you how welcome a thoughtful discussion like this is. It's what I needed today <3

[Naiattavain]

this is good news.

[Anelya]

I've been a rogue since release but rerolled in the middle of BfA to a healer. Now with current irl I simply don't have time to raid as much as before and a dps is easier to replace than a healer so this is looking good for me atleast.

Haven't touched Sub since Hemo was viable so very rusty with the specc. Gonna be fun to give it a try in Shadowlands

[Radazar]

played Sub in legion and raided as sub in BfA during EP, its fun not a bad as people think for raiding the single target is really good, its just we lose alot when we spec into AoE for M+. shadowlands looks like it fixes this problem with shadow vault, symbols of death then shuriken storm then shadow vault for the added 50% shadow damage will be nice. the problem i see is maybe one covenant ability seems really good for burst damage, the night fae seems ok for long fights for the free vanish, im upset about the Venthyr, its the one im going to pick most likely, just wish they would buff its damage a little. right now the shadow damage isnt any better that the poison its replacing.

[Saltysquidoon]

Does sub rogue still not have all the talents implemented yet?

[Narzok]

played Sub in legion and raided as sub in BfA during EP, its fun not a bad as people think for raiding the single target is really good, its just we lose alot when we spec into AoE for M+. shadowlands looks like it fixes this problem with shadow vault, symbols of death then shuriken storm then shadow vault for the added 50% shadow damage will be nice. the problem i see is maybe one covenant ability seems really good for burst damage, the night fae seems ok for long fights for the free vanish, im upset about the Venthyr, its the one im going to pick most likely, just wish they would buff its damage a little. right now the shadow damage isnt any better that the poison its replacing.

the shadow dmg from Slaughter poison might come in handy with the new enchant that makes enemies take more damage from 1 school of magic LINK
and Slaughter does do more dmg than Shadowstrike.

with the Master Assassin legendary, Sepsis might become really strong for raid fights, even if it sucks that the free vanish is not an added charge, but a forced activation.

@Saltysquidoon as of right now we are still missing 3 talents total, 2 for rogues (1 outlaw, 1 sub) and 1 for fire mages, though the firemage one is on a talent row with a specc defining talent, low chances you will ever take something else.

[The Butt Witch]

Assassination. Expect a ton of keys and gimmicks.
*Shiv is now baseline.
*Slice and Dice is now baseline. So it's obviously a 3rd thing to keep up alongside Garrote and Rupture.
*Riposte is now baseline.
*Two covenant abilities.

[Naiattavain]

Bearded Sith gave a pretty good explanation so thats what im going with. seems good to know that subtlety feels better.

[Radazar]

the shadow dmg from Slaughter poison might come in handy with the new enchant that makes enemies take more damage from 1 school of magic LINK
and Slaughter does do more dmg than Shadowstrike.

with the Master Assassin legendary, Sepsis might become really strong for raid fights, even if it sucks that the free vanish is not an added charge, but a forced activation.

@Saltysquidoon as of right now we are still missing 3 talents total, 2 for rogues (1 outlaw, 1 sub) and 1 for fire mages, though the firemage one is on a talent row with a specc defining talent, low chances you will ever take something else.

ya i seen that enchant, it might make gloomblade worth using in PvE if the damage inc is strong enough. combine it with Nadjia the Mistblade soulbind effect that increases the effect of food,flask and weapon enchant by 15% only problem is it looks like you cant get the dauntless duelist soulbind which seems nice

[Jaronicity]

Does sub rogue still not have all the talents implemented yet?

Yes. Only 'real' rogue news for this beta/alpha so far is the stuff about legendary items that came out last week. Maybe it means there will be an actual rogue pass in the next 2-3 weeks. God help us if they end up shoehorning talents in at the end of the cycle like they did with BfA :\

Interested in seeing what they replace FW with in that first row. So far, WM seems like the choice with the potential Akkari's legendary.