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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    The argument is more about at what point have you gotten your golds worth? When most people buy a product and use it frequently, and it breaks after a long period of time, they often express that they got their monies worth. Reading some of these comments, the indication would be that only infinite uses forever makes people feel like you got your monies worth. I would argue, there's a certain amount of alts at which point not only did you get your monies worth, but there's also a certain point where you've likely made your money back on the gold you gain by leveling alts faster (for those that level say 50 alts).
    That may be, but since the cost of the heirlooms ramps up with each expansion, the vast majority of the cost for anyone who has upgraded their heirlooms regularly is attached to a very recent period of time. The cost of upgrading 110 to 120 is worth nearly double the cost of upgrading 60 to 110, and it has only been available since mid-bfa. Furthermore, the actual functional use of those levels of heirloom was decidedly less than previous tiers since azerite armor was a thing, meaning that the majority of the reason many people will have bought those items is in preparation for the eventual upgrade of those items in the future. Similarly, the only reason people upgraded weapons past legion was to get to BfA weapons, and there is no way that that was worth it without the eventual upgrade past that point into the future, meaning that for weapons it's really two tiers of upgrade that aren't worth it with this information, rather than one.

    I would be more than happy if they just refunded the BfA portion of heirlooms and accept the previous tiers as a fair sunk cost, but that is far more than half of the cost of heirlooms in totality thus far if you upgrade the majority of the heirlooms you use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NordWitcher View Post
    Get over it dude. No one cares. Its just a game not your life savings.
    I care.

    As I said; why would you even post this? What is the net gain to you personally that makes it worth your time to post this reply? I understand, you don't care. That's your prerogative. But I do care. If you don't care, don't reply; it makes no difference to you.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Actually, no. With the nerf to stats in BfA and now the trash abilities on the armor, I WON'T be using them. which is why I want a refund.

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    Yup. This move is purely just to push tokens. If the change was about encouraging leveling then they'd remove the paid boosts too.
    They reduce the time you use to level to half compared to now, and you say its to push tokens? They make it faster to level up, faster than with heirloom xp now, and its to push tokens?

    The logic is?

    With the revamped leveling experience, you can look forward to reaching the new max level more than twice as fast than before

    Edit: More than twice as fast even.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2020-08-06 at 06:56 AM.
    - I will never be the Legion's pawn. And this tower will not be its den!

    Best Mage ever lived!

  3. #263
    Jesus Christ, I was expecting people to complain about the removal of XP not demanding a refund, I have full max heirlooms and the thoughts of them giving me the gold back never once came to on my mind, I got my gold back by leveling XX alts BUT I do think current version needs to be changed if I remember correctly they add heirlooms to speed up the process of leveling for veterans, while I understand they cut the process of leveling in half and prob you can reach 50 in 5-15 hours for someone that plays over 10 years is still too much in my humble opinion, personally i would prefer to get something like a speed/traveling buff or just buff up the heirlooms to the point you fell the difference when you use them and you kinda want to go full set (weapons/rings included)

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    They reduce the time you use to level to half compared to now, and you say its to push tokens? They make it faster to level up, faster than with heirloom xp now, and its to push tokens?

    The logic is?

    With the revamped leveling experience, you can look forward to reaching the new max level more than twice as fast than before

    Edit: More than twice as fast even.
    As I said, if the change to heirlooms had anything to do with wanting people to take more time to level then they'd remove level boosts from the cash shop. People need to stop acting like this isn't a thinly veiled attempt to push the level boosts.

  5. #265
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    Trash. Complete trash.

    2 needs to be buffed to 100%

    6 needs to be changed

    4 is too low time, a joke really




    How

    It takes years to build up
    It takes a few days...

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    That may be, but since the cost of the heirlooms ramps up with each expansion, the vast majority of the cost for anyone who has upgraded their heirlooms regularly is attached to a very recent period of time. The cost of upgrading 110 to 120 is worth nearly double the cost of upgrading 60 to 110, and it has only been available since mid-bfa. Furthermore, the actual functional use of those levels of heirloom was decidedly less than previous tiers since azerite armor was a thing, meaning that the majority of the reason many people will have bought those items is in preparation for the eventual upgrade of those items in the future. Similarly, the only reason people upgraded weapons past legion was to get to BfA weapons, and there is no way that that was worth it without the eventual upgrade past that point into the future, meaning that for weapons it's really two tiers of upgrade that aren't worth it with this information, rather than one.

    I would be more than happy if they just refunded the BfA portion of heirlooms and accept the previous tiers as a fair sunk cost, but that is far more than half of the cost of heirlooms in totality thus far if you upgrade the majority of the heirlooms you use.
    Out of curiosity, are there bonuses that could be put in that would make you feel ok with the XP removal? Or are you steadfast that anything besides the current XP bonus is unacceptable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    As I said, if the change to heirlooms had anything to do with wanting people to take more time to level then they'd remove level boosts from the cash shop. People need to stop acting like this isn't a thinly veiled attempt to push the level boosts.
    It had to do with stabilizing the leveling curve, not exactly the time it takes to level. Heirlooms created a disparity between players, so they decided the best approach was to totally revamp leveling and present a leveling experience that was mostly the same for a vast majority of players (excluding people like Des). This is why people say that the xp bonus of heirlooms has essentially been baked into the base game.

    Also, if Blizz wanted to make a thinly veiled attempt to sell boosts, they wouldn't make the system work better than it does with a 2x XP boost (and possibly heirlooms) currently. Why would someone buy a boost in SL if their leveling time is faster than it literally has ever been? If they really were out to sell more boosts, they would have made the system only function marginally better than it did before Winds of Wisdom, but still worse than if you used heirlooms before Winds of Wisdom, while trying to tell us it was an improvement.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    As I said, if the change to heirlooms had anything to do with wanting people to take more time to level then they'd remove level boosts from the cash shop. People need to stop acting like this isn't a thinly veiled attempt to push the level boosts.
    But how would they increase boost sale from how it is now if they reduce the leveling time by more than half from the base compared to now?
    That does not make any sense. It would only make sense if they increased the leveling time. But they don't. It's faster than with xp heirlooms on live even.

    If blizzard ain't lying about the speed in Shadowlands that is.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2020-08-06 at 09:20 AM.
    - I will never be the Legion's pawn. And this tower will not be its den!

    Best Mage ever lived!

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    Out of curiosity, are there bonuses that could be put in that would make you feel ok with the XP removal? Or are you steadfast that anything besides the current XP bonus is unacceptable?

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    It had to do with stabilizing the leveling curve, not exactly the time it takes to level. Heirlooms created a disparity between players, so they decided the best approach was to totally revamp leveling and present a leveling experience that was mostly the same for a vast majority of players (excluding people like Des). This is why people say that the xp bonus of heirlooms has essentially been baked into the base game.

    Also, if Blizz wanted to make a thinly veiled attempt to sell boosts, they wouldn't make the system work better than it does with a 2x XP boost (and possibly heirlooms) currently. Why would someone buy a boost in SL if their leveling time is faster than it literally has ever been? If they really were out to sell more boosts, they would have made the system only function marginally better than it did before Winds of Wisdom, but still worse than if you used heirlooms before Winds of Wisdom, while trying to tell us it was an improvement.
    What disparity did it cause? People paid gold for more convenience. That's not disparity. It's more jealousy than anything.

    And Blizzard has made claims about expansion features in the past that were complete lies. I'm more inclined to believe that they're lying about the leveling experience being faster because they know people are going to be pissed about heirlooms. they don't want people refunding Shadowlands. They lied about a lot of shit with WoD too and I can see them doing it again. They don't care about leveling speed right now because they'll have to level more in SL. And people coming back to the game will be at the new leveling progress with no heirlooms to help them anymore.

  9. #269
    If heirlooms are making the new leveling experience awkward, shouldn’t they then also remove rested xp? Don’t get me wrong I think it’s fine they are removing the xp bonus from heirlooms, I’m just trying to understand the logic of why we still need rested xp in the game. I think they should remove that too.

  10. #270
    Yeah, these replacement bonuses are bad... and useless for the most part.

    Basically just fluff to deceive people who don't have the deeper understanding of how these systems work.

  11. #271
    How about Blizzard just leaves the bonus XP and then we still get to level faster. Or, if they absolutely can not do that for whatever reason, they actually give set bonuses that matter.
    Rested XP only works if you create a new character and then decide to not, you know, play them for days while letting it build.
    Out of combat Regen means basically nothing. While leveling my health has never dropped to where I need to worry about anything as regen is already high.
    The bonus XP only matters if you level at the beginning or midway thru a dungeon and/or you’re leveling while questing in the world. As it stands, if you play a healer or tank where your queue’s are instant then you don’t even need to go out into the world until you hit WotLK time era and the queue slows down a bit regardless of role.
    The bonuses are more insulting than anything else.

  12. #272
    The increase to out of combat regeneration will probably make the biggest difference here for most players. The reduced consumption rate on rested EXP is rather useless unless you start and stop a lot - and with the increased leveling speed, it really seems like a filler effect. The (I assume) massive damage AoE and primary stat bonus increase is actually really cute. While not as useful as the OOC buff, and technically less progression than the decreased rested EXP usage - it definitely will create some fun moments when you level up.

    Honestly I think the 30% (+30%) reduction in rested EXP should be changed to increased mounted speed by 10% OOC and an additional on the 6 piece; or something to that effect. The set pieces should be proactive in the leveling experience, not encourage benching your alts to maximize your leveling speed (If you level multiple alts at a time).

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    Out of curiosity, are there bonuses that could be put in that would make you feel ok with the XP removal? Or are you steadfast that anything besides the current XP bonus is unacceptable?
    I'm not against removing the xp bonus, but I don't know what would be good enough to compensate, nor do I know how they would make everyone happy. At a bear minimum, the actual items themselves should be quantifiably better than what drops during leveling again, since they haven't been for a long time.

    Rested xp is nearly valueless except on high level characters that haven't been played in weeks, a buff that lasts minutes is nearly valueless, and who in the shit has ever noticed out of combat regen? The limitation on speed is on how many mobs you can pull without leashing, not on recovering hp between fights. Food already does that if you are actually struggling to recover. Complete nonsense bonuses that just do nothing for people who the heirlooms are aimed at.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    The new leveling system takes about 10-15 hours, about half or less than what it does now.

    It's not a "scam," it's just that at this point an xp boost on gear while leveling becomes silly.

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    Right?

    It can fucking rain gold in this game if you know what you're doing.
    Nobody said I want back xp boost but these bonuses suck dick big time. There is almost no reason to get them. Even stat revert would be enough to make them good. In current state its scam and I want my gold back.

  15. #275

  16. #276
    Pandaren Monk bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    As I said, if the change to heirlooms had anything to do with wanting people to take more time to level then they'd remove level boosts from the cash shop. People need to stop acting like this isn't a thinly veiled attempt to push the level boosts.
    Except it isn't and your argument is idiotic to the Nth degree. Why would they be "pushing level boosts" and then in the literal same post say they have made leveling more than twice as fast. And despite any attempt otherwise, these set bonuses will still help improve the leveling experience over no heirlooms at all. Stop with this fictional narrative people like you spin to try to paint blizzard in every negative color. This is a reasonable change considering they are pairing it with a massive nerf to time to level.
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    Except it isn't and your argument is idiotic to the Nth degree. Why would they be "pushing level boosts" and then in the literal same post say they have made leveling more than twice as fast. And despite any attempt otherwise, these set bonuses will still help improve the leveling experience over no heirlooms at all. Stop with this fictional narrative people like you spin to try to paint blizzard in every negative color. This is a reasonable change considering they are pairing it with a massive nerf to time to level.
    lmfao the fact that you are believing everything Blizzard is saying about the expansion, a company with a history of lying about content, just shows how incredibly naive you are. They also said the Horde and Alliance would have their own unique starting cities in WoD. They also said BfA wasn't an Old God expansion. But keep believing everything they say I guess.

  18. #278
    Pandaren Monk bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    What disparity did it cause? People paid gold for more convenience. That's not disparity. It's more jealousy than anything.

    And Blizzard has made claims about expansion features in the past that were complete lies. I'm more inclined to believe that they're lying about the leveling experience being faster because they know people are going to be pissed about heirlooms. they don't want people refunding Shadowlands. They lied about a lot of shit with WoD too and I can see them doing it again. They don't care about leveling speed right now because they'll have to level more in SL. And people coming back to the game will be at the new leveling progress with no heirlooms to help them anymore.
    Ah i see, your distrust is at Tinfoil hat level. Blizzard lied to you and will continue to lie to you forever. Doesn't matter they spent the last 15+ years maintaining a helluva game, they lied to you one time (or you perceive it to be a lie) and now they are Hitler now and only bring ruin and exploitation. K bud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    lmfao the fact that you are believing everything Blizzard is saying about the expansion, a company with a history of lying about content, just shows how incredibly naive you are. They also said the Horde and Alliance would have their own unique starting cities in WoD. They also said BfA wasn't an Old God expansion. But keep believing everything they say I guess.
    Ive been playing the beta since week one, i know what we are getting but sure maintain that level of distrust. Also your cited examples of lies have had no affect on gameplay in the least. We know what happened with WoD, and they never sais BFA wasnt old god, they just tried to make it seem like it wasnt, bait and switch at best, not an outright lie.
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    Ah i see, your distrust is at Tinfoil hat level. Blizzard lied to you and will continue to lie to you forever. Doesn't matter they spent the last 15+ years maintaining a helluva game, they lied to you one time (or you perceive it to be a lie) and now they are Hitler now and only bring ruin and exploitation. K bud.

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    Ive been playing the beta since week one, i know what we are getting but sure maintain that level of distrust. Also your cited examples of lies have had no affect on gameplay in the least. We know what happened with WoD, and they never sais BFA wasnt old god, they just tried to make it seem like it wasnt, bait and switch at best, not an outright lie.
    They literally lied about aspect of their last three expansions. They lied about WoD content. Lied about Legion content, and lied about BfA content. This isn't "tinfoil hate level distrust"". This is distrust in a company that literally has a pattern of lying to their players now.

    Saying the lies about WoD didn't impact gameplay is a lie itself or you just don't care when Blizzard toys with the players. And they ABSOLUTELY said that BfA wasn't an Old God expansion. That the entire expansion would be about the Horde and Alliance conflict which ended up being a massive lie. Then there was the cut content that was announced at Blizzcon for Legion as well. All you're doing is showing that you're too much of a Blizzard fan boy to see just how terrible the company has become.

  20. #280
    Pandaren Monk bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    They literally lied about aspect of their last three expansions. They lied about WoD content. Lied about Legion content, and lied about BfA content. This isn't "tinfoil hate level distrust"". This is distrust in a company that literally has a pattern of lying to their players now.

    Saying the lies about WoD didn't impact gameplay is a lie itself or you just don't care when Blizzard toys with the players. And they ABSOLUTELY said that BfA wasn't an Old God expansion. That the entire expansion would be about the Horde and Alliance conflict which ended up being a massive lie. Then there was the cut content that was announced at Blizzcon for Legion as well. All you're doing is showing that you're too much of a Blizzard fan boy to see just how terrible the company has become.
    Stop playing and move on from this forum then? You are so wounded by perceived attacks by Blizzard on the playerbase that this game is obviously not good for your mental state. Having played every expansion, little shit like 2 capital cities in WOD are not relevant for the player experience in any impactful way, and are typically lost from memory the moment we leave an expansion. Id rather Blizzard focus on meaningful things like end game experience then which city i afk in while waiting for queues, or what model the last boss of an expansion has. We also knew it was an old expansion from moment one if you paid any attention to any lore material about Azerite and what the function of Azeroth itself was (old god prison).
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

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