Will any bosses in Naxxramas be difficult in the beginning?

[Keashaa]

As Naxxramas is nowhere new to players how is it supposed to be hard?
People know everything about that place, they know had to prepare and so on.

So there is no progress and the biggest danger for most raids will be to not fall asleep.

[xGLxAnubis]

The bolded part strongly suggests to me you have NEVER played Contra. If you are going to make stuff up, at least quickly google the game to get a basic understanding of it before making comments like this. I also do not believe even for a second that you find Contra "really easy".

Oh no, a random person on the internet doesn't believe me. What will I ever do?

https://www.contraweb.org/contra-walkthrough
Optimal routes through each level.

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contra is still hard

https://www.speedrun.com/contra

No it isn't.

[TJ]

Well, I guess we're gonna find out?

A lot of people want to see Naxxaramas for sure, but are they going to sit there clearing it for 6-7 months if TBC is on the horizon every single week? I doubt it. Even 15 years ago with no idea how an expansion would work as far as a gear reset went, there were plenty of guilds that stopped raiding about a month before TBC launched because they saw little point in progressing.

I don't play on private servers, but I know of people that cite a lot of drop off shortly after Naxxaramas is launched. Not necessarily because of the difficulty, but because it's the end and the game feels 'complete' at that point.

I can't wait for Naxx, but 6 months of it I think would defo make me take a break until TBC. I'll farm it for gear, help others with their gear, but 6 months is just overkill.

I'd hope Blizzard have learned from previous mistakes and will not let it drag out that long, but I doubt it.

[deenman]

Oh no, a random person on the internet doesn't believe me. What will I ever do?

https://www.contraweb.org/contra-walkthrough
Optimal routes through each level.

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https://www.speedrun.com/contra

No it isn't.

lol speedrun,obvious troll is obvious

[Jastall]

Oh no, a random person on the internet doesn't believe me. What will I ever do?

https://www.contraweb.org/contra-walkthrough
Optimal routes through each level.

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https://www.speedrun.com/contra

No it isn't.

Now actually do it. Posting someone else's guide or speedrun means nothing. What next, running 100m under 10 seconds is easy, here's this video of Hussein Bolt doing it?

[arkanon]

Now actually do it. Posting someone else's guide or speedrun means nothing. What next, running 100m under 10 seconds is easy, here's this video of Hussein Bolt doing it?

My god man, i could not have said it better myself. You should click on the link for the "walkthrough guide". Its literally just some txt translation of what happens.....one run through each level would tell you more.

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lol speedrun,obvious troll is obvious

Comment below yours, above mine, summarizes this attitude perfectly.

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I can't wait for Naxx, but 6 months of it I think would defo make me take a break until TBC. I'll farm it for gear, help others with their gear, but 6 months is just overkill.

I'd hope Blizzard have learned from previous mistakes and will not let it drag out that long, but I doubt it.

Sorry to say, but i suspect they will drag it out until there is almost nothing left. Then, when the rage reaches break point, release a 'teaser' trailer hinting (confirming) TBC. Then wait another month or two. Then release a full trailer and announce the release..........6 months away. I hope i am wrong, but i can honestly see TBC being 1year after naxx, if not more.

[-Doko-]

I expect the top guilds to clear this in just a few hours, however the guilds that are not at that level are gonna find a noticeable difficulty increase, which again doesn't actually mean "hard" just, harder.

- 4H will die quickly, but even with current insane dps levels relative to vanilla shield wall from mograine and korth'azz will slow you down a lot. You are still gonna have to do all the mechanics so I'd say thats the #1 threat to world first guilds.
- Sapphiron will probably die so quickly that as long as they use a good strategy for dealing with iceblocks it won't be much of an issue. a decent amount of FR is probably gonna be required.
- KT won't be a joke but as long as your healers are competent it shouldn't be too bad. Dps will just need to watch threat after he resets it and the melee will have to play well as to not chain blocks.
- Gluth could cause trouble to guilds that don't have insane dps as there was a lot of personal responsibility from the people kiting zombies and the longer the fight goes the more chances for things to go bad.
- Patchwerk might be a little wake up call to tanks doing weird shennanigans with their gear. We never did him with worldbuffs and 95% of our wipes, even during progression were due to patchwerk doing what he does best which is fuck up your tanks. The dps check was not very relevant during vanilla and its completely irrelevant now.
- Maexxena used to sometimes kill our tank even when things had gone great in the 10-15s prior to her webbing if her melee swings rolled on the higher end of the variable damage range or the majority of HoTs on the tank ticked right before abolish cleansed the poison. However she's probably going to die so quickly that the chances of that happening are very low.
- Mechanically impared people will find heigan and thaddius difficult. Mages playing fire might have a close encounter with thaddius's fist if they happen to have the ignite stack as there will be no ranged threat threshold to hold on to.
Gothik might require a little bit of balancing until you find the right split / CC order if needed, or might be a complete joke depending on damage.
Loatheb is probably gonna be one of the easiest of the later bosses as the difficulty of the fight gets massively diluted by more damage and the only real mechanic is the group rotation for spores.

[Zarator8]

in tbc priests gained, prayer of mending and circle of healing if you went full holy.
palas have light of dawn or becons or glyphs that split holy light into a group heal they had some way of healing a group. (better than they can now)
druids have wild growth.
shamans gain earth shield and riptide.

Many of these skills aren't really TBC skills.

Light of Dawn was first introduced in Cataclysm, along with the Holy Power system.
Glyphs were a WotLK thing, including Glyph of Holy Light.
Wild Growth and Riptide are from WotLK too.

Overall, your point is generally correct, but more true in WotLK than in TBC. Healers in TBC didn't really improve that much compared to Vanilla. Only priests expanded their toolkit significantly. Resto shamans are still Chain Heal bots for the most part, Paladins are still Flash of Light bots, and Resto Druid replace their ineffective Healing Touch spam with the much better Lifebloom spam. But it's still a spam.

It's only in WotLK that things get more complex. RDruids start having to juggle between Rejuv, Wild Growth and Regrowth. Resto Shamans no longer just Chain Heal but also use Healing Wave with Ancestral Awakening and Riptide for a mix of spot healing and group healing. Holy Priests combine PoM/PoH/CoH with Serendipity procs for Greater Heal and Surge of Light Flash Heals or Empowered Renews, depending on the spec. In short, WotLK is when all healers started to have an expansive toolkit of spells they had to alternate in an encounter instead of just one "spam" spell and a few cooldowns/situational buttons.

[Nitros14]

- KT won't be a joke but as long as your healers are competent it shouldn't be too bad. Dps will just need to watch threat after he resets it and the melee will have to play well as to not chain blocks.

Just what I've seen on private servers, but Kel'Thuzad caused more wipes there than all the other bosses combined. There's so many ways the shackle and the guardians of icecrown can go horribly wrong.

[Heathy]

Many of these skills aren't really TBC skills.

Light of Dawn was first introduced in Cataclysm, along with the Holy Power system.
Glyphs were a WotLK thing, including Glyph of Holy Light.
Wild Growth and Riptide are from WotLK too.

Overall, your point is generally correct, but more true in WotLK than in TBC. Healers in TBC didn't really improve that much compared to Vanilla. Only priests expanded their toolkit significantly. Resto shamans are still Chain Heal bots for the most part, Paladins are still Flash of Light bots, and Resto Druid replace their ineffective Healing Touch spam with the much better Lifebloom spam. But it's still a spam.

It's only in WotLK that things get more complex. RDruids start having to juggle between Rejuv, Wild Growth and Regrowth. Resto Shamans no longer just Chain Heal but also use Healing Wave with Ancestral Awakening and Riptide for a mix of spot healing and group healing. Holy Priests combine PoM/PoH/CoH with Serendipity procs for Greater Heal and Surge of Light Flash Heals or Empowered Renews, depending on the spec. In short, WotLK is when all healers started to have an expansive toolkit of spells they had to alternate in an encounter instead of just one "spam" spell and a few cooldowns/situational buttons.

yeah I knew I was wrong about when these abilities came into the game I just didn't wanna bother changing what I thought I remembered, I only played a priest during BC and just assumed that the other healers gained the same leg up, priests in classic for the alliance I think were the better healer (the healer more likely to get innervated), perhaps the best healer having a flash heal, an aoe heal and a hot type heal, while druids have their hot/flash heal/hot but no aoe heal and palas have their endless flash spam. I remember tbc being a lot of flash heal spamming but I think the other healing classes, druid palas and shamans did get a boost as it wasn't from my understanding harder to heal heroics as these classes where you would expect it would be easy with a priest and hard as anything else, from what I remember it was balanced better than you'd expect. they definitely gave the other healing classes some love so that they were on par with priests more than they were in classic. but the game did change a bunch of times throughout tbc as well certain things were changed or nerfed (spirit was nerfed at one point because mana almost became irrelevant in t6 it kinda was) and it would make sense that it was wrath when things were most complex with these old talent trees, that was also when discipline had atonement and damage/healing became a thing.

I guess druids only gained lifebloom in tbc then (and tree form) and a lot of the buff likely came from haste and just having your base healing normalised to be on par with priests flash heal. I do remember getting my ass handed to me on the healing when I started doing ssc, the palas healed more than I could but I think it did eventually balance out by t6 where priests were nr1 again. its been so many years, tbc likely wasn't the best expansion but it did fix a lot of issues with the class balance in healers and tanks. I think most specs were viable in bc, I don't remember any spec that was completely useless but again I played primarily a single class and didn't bother with alts that much I think i took a warlock and a rogue through karazhan but that was about as far as I went with alts.

I'm tanking this time and just having that go back to sword/board would be nice for me so I don't have to keep juggling stances and weapons every 5 seconds. I feel like the cooldown of shield wall and last stand was lowered in tbc but I feel that might be wrong as well. at the moment its 30 mins and 10 mins which is extreme I tend to go whole raids without using it or using recklessness near the end of a raid instead. likewise at some point all 3 of those warrior cooldowns were unlinked from sharing the same cd. that may of been tbc but it may have been later.

tbc didn't have much more complex fights its only really the fights with multiple phases, at this stage seeing how ppl blow through classic I think tbc will probably be a cake walk at least most of it. I wouldn't expect progress to be stifled by much. but I'd rather see them release tbc than try to create boss fights or raid tiers for a game that is 15 years old and trying to find ways of challenging current metas. that way it would just feel out of place. having blizzard try to create boss fights that you can't cheese by just stacking 25 warriors as an example.

[essohell]

Loatheb is actually going to faceroll so many groups.

[Pohut]

Loatheb is actually going to faceroll so many groups.

It really won't. Nothing in Naxx will. You will be amazed at how easy it will all look.

[Nitros14]

Loatheb is actually going to faceroll so many groups.

I definitely think people overestimate average dps in classic and underestimate the requirement here. Top guilds will roll it as a matter of course but it'll be interesting for average guilds.

If we assume an average guild is a 50th percentile parse.

Without world buffs a 50th percentile Ouro kill on warcraftlogs is 3m37s. 2,000,000/217s = 9,216 raid dps.

A 50th percentile Flamegor kill is 1m39s. 1,000,000/99s = 10,101 raid dps.

Loatheb will assuredly kill most of the raid with the inevitable doom at 5m25s. You lose 24 seconds bandaging and you'll almost assuredly lose around 45 (for melee) to 25 (casters) seconds to running out to your spores and running back, since the spores spawn as far from Loatheb as possible. So if we say 4m30s of dps time, you'd need 5,600,000/270s = 20,740 raid dps to kill him in time.

That's over double average raid dps right now in phase 5 without world buffs, and Loatheb will need more healers than most content right now since he hits 25% harder than Ouro and you only get one heal per minute.

Even if we say you gain 40% damage from the crit buff (the uptime won't be 100%) the dps requirement is 60% higher than average raid dps right now in phase 5.

[Kralljin]

It really won't. Nothing in Naxx will. You will be amazed at how easy it will all look.

It will primarily come down to your raid comp (the amount of Dps Warrs / Mages), your willingness to grab World buffs (and doing Plague wing 1st) and consumables.

Have that, it's easy, ignore any of that, you will most likely struggle on Loatheb because killing him that quickly into the fight is unlikely.
5,3M HP is still a number, the Crit isn't present on everyone the moment you pull the boss, you only get a spore for 5 people every 13 seconds.

[Pohut]

Yeah, I remember people doing similar calculations in MC and proving using "math" on how impossible it was going to be. In the end it turned out that their numbers were wrong, abilities/timers were wrong, dps estimates were wrong, and the bosses just fell over.
It is happening again and it is going to be just as embarrassing.

[Nitros14]

Yeah, I remember people doing similar calculations in MC and proving using "math" on how impossible it was going to be. In the end it turned out that their numbers were wrong, abilities/timers were wrong, dps estimates were wrong, and the bosses just fell over.
It is happening again and it is going to be just as embarrassing.

Anyone who thought Molten Core or Blackwing Lair would be hard was delusional.

Naxxramas isn't quite the same thing. I have no doubt guilds who put in a lot of effort will steamroll it but I mean if you look at warcraftlogs the average guild just isn't that great.

The clear rate for Ahn'qiraj is still only 53%, and you can't skip the Viscidus-like bosses of Naxxramas.

[Jurwi]

Anyone who thought Molten Core or Blackwing Lair would be hard was delusional.

Naxxramas isn't quite the same thing. I have no doubt guilds who put in a lot of effort will steamroll it but I mean if you look at warcraftlogs the average guild just isn't that great.

The clear rate for Ahn'qiraj is still only 53%, and you can't skip the Viscidus-like bosses of Naxxramas.

Yea, AQ40 is the first relatively hard raid in Classic. Naxxramas is another step up from that. Yet it's still way easier than most retail M+ raid content.

[Hinastorm]

Equip NR gear, Coldrage daggers with frost oil, frost wands, use 30+ sappers on the first wave of blobs, pop 1 GNPP before fight and 1 after the first one is gone.. And the fight is impossible to wipe.

I don't recall our exact comp, but there was almost zero difference in time to freeze when we started having warriors/rogues/hunters sit out till 2/3 freeze.

We have to do this though cause we only have like 12 eng's.

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What are you even talking about? 80% of Classic guilds cleared AQ within the first week. Are you telling me that 80% of Classic guilds are hardcore?

I don't feel like digging through WCL right now, but I HIGHLY doubt 80% of guilds full cleared the first week.

[AeneasBK]

I don't feel like digging through WCL right now, but I HIGHLY doubt 80% of guilds full cleared the first week.

I don't know if you have paid any attention to the thread but players who've never heard of AQ40 were waltzing in with no voice comms or prior experience or knowledge and steamrolling C'thun. It really happened.

[Jurwi]

I don't feel like digging through WCL right now, but I HIGHLY doubt 80% of guilds full cleared the first week.

Yea, that's just BS. Not even close to 80% of guilds has even done full clear yet, let alone done it the first week.