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  1. #21
    Titan vindicatorx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    leeched off the system?
    interesting that must mean you have never paid taxes before, since a leech would be getting something for nothing. Someone who pays taxes and then getting back services for those taxes would not be a leech.

    Also based on that, you have in fact leeched off the system as for there are many govt services that you receive just not the one you are bashing.
    If you worked as hard as you do when making up bullshit excuses as for why you feel you should have privacy on your finances when you are sucking off a system you wouldn't be using welfare housing. I have paid taxes since I was 14 and I've worked up to 3 jobs at a time in order to make sure I don't need to resort to government assistance. Learn to not use logic fallacies like appealing to ridicule.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by vindicatorx View Post
    If you worked as hard as you do when making up bullshit excuses as for why you feel you should have privacy on your finances when you are sucking off a system you wouldn't be using welfare housing. I have paid taxes since I was 14 and I've worked up to 3 jobs at a time in order to make sure I don't need to resort to government assistance. Learn to not use logic fallacies like appealing to ridicule.
    maybe be less angry and read a little slower?
    I never supported any privacy on finances when you apply for benefits, just the opposite.

    I can also guarantee I worked just as much if not more than you since I started paying into the system at 11 and I am old (Thank god for self employment income limits being only $400 right?)
    ...and I currently work two jobs and own a part in a business.




    Also you never answered the question, how is it leeching when you paid into the system with taxes?

    So what programs are considered "leeching"?
    If I paid 120,000 in taxes over 40 years and now get food stamps am I leeching?
    If my house catches fire and the town fire department comes put it out, am I leeching?
    "The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president," - McConnell

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    leeched off the system?
    interesting that must mean you have never paid taxes before, since a leech would be getting something for nothing. Someone who pays taxes and then getting back services for those taxes would not be a leech.

    Also based on that, you have in fact leeched off the system as for there are many govt services that you receive just not the one you are bashing.

    - - - Updated - - -



    deal with what situation?
    You are allowed to have as many accounts as you want, its what is in them that is the qualifier.
    I was replying to this specific phrase
    Second, if you open a savings, that means you have disposable income enough to do so
    which is not always the case, hence the question. becasue that comment implied that just having a savings account is enough to disqualify a person.

  4. #24
    Warchief smityx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Lol! Now now, be nice.

    Section 8 housing is a good thing. But it is understandable they need to have some strict rules to prevent abusers from taking advantage of the program, when some really need it.
    Also dissuades people that do get it from even trying to get out of it or better themselves. If they can't save or earn over a certain amount. Get a job and lose your home before even getting your first paycheck.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by smityx View Post
    Also dissuades people that do get it from even trying to get out of it or better themselves. If they can't save or earn over a certain amount. Get a job and lose your home before even getting your first paycheck.

    Thanks for providing your thoughts everyone.

    As a section 8 resident this is an issue that I’ve often pondered - that being the complacency and lack of ambition that subsidized housing (section 8) creates.

    That complacency and lack of ambition is also onset by similar programs like welfare. This is not about welfare, however, it cannot be denied that environmental and economic adversity influences someone’s determination to rise above their circumstances.

    Section 8 offers rental assistance based off of your net income. However, the higher your income, the lower the monetary assistance that they provide. This makes it increasingly harder to build and reinvest within your family. In fact, it encourages families to break apart.

    The less you make, the more they cover. Same story with welfare.

    This thread isn’t created out of malice but pure frustration. I’m in school, I’m working and by all accounts, I’m blazing toward my goal of success but things as simple as saving for when I move out and get my own apartment are stymied by this program. Why?

    Why is it wrong to save and build? Why is it wrong to have a savings account (interest rates are non existent - just making a point)? Why is it wrong to have cash saved in a checkings? Why is it wrong to place money in a brokerage account to invest your funds?

    Someone please help me understand why section 8 provides assistance but the moment you make strides to do good for yourself they pressure you with termination?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just a heads up that I’m open to all thoughts and criticisms. Maybe there’s something I’m not seeing.
    Last edited by mario710; 2020-08-14 at 06:59 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by mario710 View Post

    Section 8 offers rental assistance based off of your net income. However, the higher your income, the lower the monetary assistance that they provide. This makes it increasingly harder to build and reinvest within your family. In fact, it encourages families to break apart.

    The less you make, the more they cover. Same story with welfare.

    This thread isn’t created out of malice but pure frustration. I’m in school, I’m working and by all accounts, I’m blazing toward my goal of success but things as simple as saving for when I move out and get my own apartment are stymied by this program. Why?

    Why is it wrong to save and build? Why is it wrong to have a savings account (interest rates are non existent - just making a point)? Why is it wrong to have cash saved in a checkings? Why is it wrong to place money in a brokerage account to invest your funds?

    Someone please help me understand why section 8 provides assistance but the moment you make strides to do good for yourself they pressure you with termination?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just a heads up that I’m open to all thoughts and criticisms. Maybe there’s something I’m not seeing.
    Let me see if i can calm your fears and concerns:


    So the first $5,000 is not counted towards section 8 calculations.

    After that its a small percentage based on interest rates.

    When net family assets are more than $5,000, annual income includes the greater of the following:

    Actual income from assets; or A percentage of the value of family assets based on the current passbook savings rate as established by HUD. This is called imputed income from assets.

    The current HUD Passbook Rate Remains at 0.06% for 2020.

    So if you save 15,000. $10,000 would be either $6 dollars added to your income for the year
    or
    Actual income. The best rates are now .8-.9% in a savings account so the income would be 90 dollars added to your income for the year.


    Do you really see this as a barrier?
    The 90 dollars per 10,000 is going to have such a minor effect on your Section 8 allowance till you start saving a lot more.


    Quote Originally Posted by mario710 View Post

    Why is it wrong to place money in a brokerage account to invest your funds?
    .
    If you invest that in stocks its not counted as income till you sell it or collect dividends.
    If you invest it in Bonds its not counted till the bond matures or pays out.
    If you take a loss you can deduct it from income requirements.

    So you can invest 50,000 in stocks and have zero impact on your qualifications or allowances



    On top of all that since you qualify for Section 8 you also qualify for No down payment mortgages. No closing cost mortgages. Low interest rate mortgages supported by HUD and other agencies. Low credit score loans. etc etc.

    So for a 100k home you could have to save as little as $2,000 for mortgage cost.


    So hopefully this helps. You have a lot of misinformation about saving money while receiving benefits and how that effects you
    "The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president," - McConnell

  7. #27
    Neoliberalism and means-testing working as intended.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
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  8. #28
    Titan I Push Buttons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mario710 View Post
    Just a heads up that I’m open to all thoughts and criticisms. Maybe there’s something I’m not seeing.
    No its a well known phenomenon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_trap

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    No its a well known phenomenon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_trap
    No its not a trap since 95% of what the OP though was incorrect.
    "The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president," - McConnell

  10. #30
    Scarab Lord gaymer77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Put everything in someone else's name.
    With Section 8, if you aren't on the voucher you can't live in the house. Its more strict than rental agreements with landlords which just have you add the other person onto your rental agreement if they catch you with someone who's not on the lease living there. You will literally lose your Section 8 if they find out someone not on your Section 8 is living with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Of course they need info on your bank account. They need to be sure you actually Need section 8 housing. Second, if you open a savings, that means you have disposable income enough to do so. If you're able to afford a better house, then they want you to do so so programs that are aimed at helping those in need can have houses to select from.
    You couldn't be more wrong about this one if you tried. Having a savings account does not mean you have disposable income. It means you have a savings account. I have a savings account and it was opened the same day I opened my checking account with Chase. I typically have nothing in it and its "free" if I make an auto-pay into the account of at least $25 per statement. Prior to being with Chase, I had Bank of the West and your checking and savings are opened up at the same time with the same account number. Section 8 doesn't care if you have a savings account or if you have some money tucked away for a downpayment on a car/house/whatever. They care if you have a large amount of money is ANY account ANYWHERE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    If the argument is they don't take care of it to the extent that you like - that's really not an abuse since the intent of the system is to provide housing for people that can't afford it, which it is still accomplishing even if the properties aren't taken care of (point in fact, a lot of the 'not taking care of' stuff has to do with the fact people that qualify for subsidized housing typically can't afford constant or extensive maintenance services, especially of low grade mass produced housing of the sort that tends to be allotted for it). If the argument is that people might own...multiple subsidized houses, somehow....? Again, got bad news to tell you about landlords and owning a bunch of properties they can't afford.
    Not sure you understand how Section 8 works. Section 8 is a program where renters get approved for so much money towards their rent. A landlord must agree to abide by the rules, regulations, and inspections that Section 8 has. A landlord has to, per agreement, maintain the property the renter is renting from. If the landlord fails to do so, the renter has the option of not paying rent until said problems are taken care of or they can immediately break their lease and take their voucher to another property with another landlord. A landlord who agrees to take Section 8 has a certain timeframe they must fix tenant problems otherwise they are subject to rent withholding or tenants moving out. As far as non-Section 8 renting goes, a tenant is allowed to withhold rent if there are problems with the property they are renting as long as they have notified the landlord of the problems. A non-Section 8 tenant is allowed to make repairs to the property and deduct it from the rent if the landlord doesn't fix the notified problems in a timely manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by mario710 View Post
    Is it just me or do these assholes request every piece of fucking information about you? They even have the nerve to ask how much is in your checking account.

    You're also not allowed to open ANY interest-bearing accounts. That means that if you opened a Chase savings account right now - which by the way offers less than .001% interest - they'd terminate your Section 8 voucher.

    WTF?

    Anyone else fed up with the bullshit subsidized housing in this country?
    Last year my name came up for selection after a 5 year waiting period for Section 8 in the county I used to live in. I have been through the process and understand it fully. Though I was not able to find a property willing to take my & my boyfriend's credit (his mom took out over $10k in credit cards in his name and had the electric in my name at one point and didn't pay on it so it went to collections) and was not able to utilize the use of our voucher, I still understand fully the process it takes to apply and be accepted into the Section 8 program. They ask for stuff like your checking account, savings account, car registration, investments information, pay stubs, and life insurance because those are your assets that determine your monthly income or net worth. You are allowed to have interest baring accounts. I had both a checking and savings account that were interest baring. They don't' give a fuck about the fact you have said accounts. They are interested in the AMOUNT in said accounts. You are allowed 1 car per adult before they start adding it on to your net worth as they see 1 car as a necessity not a luxury. Any government program (WIC, food stamps, welfare, HUD, Section 8, etc) as the same questions about your belongings and accounts. I don't know who told you that if you have an interest baring account they would terminate your Section 8 but you were told very incorrect information.

  11. #31
    You realize one uses section 8 housing out of necessity, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    If you're fed up with it, stop using it...?
    Then why would you say such an ignorant, and disgusting thing to somebody who is obviously not in the best place in life at the moment?

    Also I grew up in the projects, as did most of my friends. Never ever have I seen somebody ''abuse'' living in the projects, nor do I, nor have I ever, know wtf that even is supposed to mean? And I've heard it my whole life from people whose noses are stuck in their own asses loving how their farts smell. How and why would you ''abuse'' section 8 housing? Do you have the faintest idea what life is really like in the projects lmao

    EDIT: Just saw you aren't even from the US wtf do you even know
    [Infraction]
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-08-16 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Minor Trolling

  12. #32
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    You realize one uses section 8 housing out of necessity, right?


    Then why would you say such an ignorant, and disgusting thing to somebody who is obviously not in the best place in life at the moment?

    Also I grew up in the projects, as did most of my friends. Never ever have I seen somebody ''abuse'' living in the projects, nor do I, nor have I ever, know wtf that even is supposed to mean? And I've heard it my whole life from people whose noses are stuck in their own asses loving how their farts smell. How and why would you ''abuse'' section 8 housing? Do you have the faintest idea what life is really like in the projects lmao

    EDIT: Just saw you aren't even from the US wtf do you even know
    What a lovely little rant, now go blow it out your ass.

    We have welfare housing here too. Get over yourself.

    [Infraction]

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    With Section 8, if you aren't on the voucher you can't live in the house. Its more strict than rental agreements with landlords which just have you add the other person onto your rental agreement if they catch you with someone who's not on the lease living there. You will literally lose your Section 8 if they find out someone not on your Section 8 is living with you.



    You couldn't be more wrong about this one if you tried. Having a savings account does not mean you have disposable income. It means you have a savings account. I have a savings account and it was opened the same day I opened my checking account with Chase. I typically have nothing in it and its "free" if I make an auto-pay into the account of at least $25 per statement. Prior to being with Chase, I had Bank of the West and your checking and savings are opened up at the same time with the same account number. Section 8 doesn't care if you have a savings account or if you have some money tucked away for a downpayment on a car/house/whatever. They care if you have a large amount of money is ANY account ANYWHERE.



    Not sure you understand how Section 8 works. Section 8 is a program where renters get approved for so much money towards their rent. A landlord must agree to abide by the rules, regulations, and inspections that Section 8 has. A landlord has to, per agreement, maintain the property the renter is renting from. If the landlord fails to do so, the renter has the option of not paying rent until said problems are taken care of or they can immediately break their lease and take their voucher to another property with another landlord. A landlord who agrees to take Section 8 has a certain timeframe they must fix tenant problems otherwise they are subject to rent withholding or tenants moving out. As far as non-Section 8 renting goes, a tenant is allowed to withhold rent if there are problems with the property they are renting as long as they have notified the landlord of the problems. A non-Section 8 tenant is allowed to make repairs to the property and deduct it from the rent if the landlord doesn't fix the notified problems in a timely manner.



    Last year my name came up for selection after a 5 year waiting period for Section 8 in the county I used to live in. I have been through the process and understand it fully. Though I was not able to find a property willing to take my & my boyfriend's credit (his mom took out over $10k in credit cards in his name and had the electric in my name at one point and didn't pay on it so it went to collections) and was not able to utilize the use of our voucher, I still understand fully the process it takes to apply and be accepted into the Section 8 program. They ask for stuff like your checking account, savings account, car registration, investments information, pay stubs, and life insurance because those are your assets that determine your monthly income or net worth. You are allowed to have interest baring accounts. I had both a checking and savings account that were interest baring. They don't' give a fuck about the fact you have said accounts. They are interested in the AMOUNT in said accounts. You are allowed 1 car per adult before they start adding it on to your net worth as they see 1 car as a necessity not a luxury. Any government program (WIC, food stamps, welfare, HUD, Section 8, etc) as the same questions about your belongings and accounts. I don't know who told you that if you have an interest baring account they would terminate your Section 8 but you were told very incorrect information.
    I'm surprised to learn that the system is more logical and humane over there than here. We were barely allowed to keep pets (2 cats, 1 dog) without having to go through the process again and prove that we hadn't suddenly come into more money somewhere. And not paying rent even if the landlord didn't fix issues wouldve been unthinkable...
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-08-16 at 01:54 PM. Reason: Minor Trolling
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I'm curious as to exactly how one "abuses" subsidized housing.

    Because if your concern is that someone might end up holding ownership over a bunch of properties that they can't actually afford, then oh boy do I have something to tell you about landlords.
    any system or program can be abused. one example that comes to mind is someone working under the table gaining more income than what they have to report, thus lowering their monthly payment on their housing. this one example is the most common form of abusing this paticular program. or when someone is on section 8 and they are just saying its her and their children living there but, their boyfriend also stays there frequently and helps with bills. this is another form of abusing this program. as the only people allowed to stay there are those on the paperwork when you filled out your forms.

  14. #34
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigw View Post
    any system or program can be abused. one example that comes to mind is someone working under the table gaining more income than what they have to report, thus lowering their monthly payment on their housing.
    Aight; so what? The point of the program is ensuring that people aren't homeless. That is only "abuse" in that it's a form of bullshit deduction that isn't permitted, as opposed to claiming your hot tub installation as a tax deduction.

    this one example is the most common form of abusing this paticular program. or when someone is on section 8 and they are just saying its her and their children living there but, their boyfriend also stays there frequently and helps with bills. this is another form of abusing this program. as the only people allowed to stay there are those on the paperwork when you filled out your forms.
    Again; so what. The point is to give people places to live; what you're describing is 'well they aren't following the rules to the letter' - ignoring of course that the rules are deliberately created in such a way to deter people from applying, because this is America and we can't have people getting anything they didn't "earn".
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Aight; so what? The point of the program is ensuring that people aren't homeless. That is only "abuse" in that it's a form of bullshit deduction that isn't permitted, as opposed to claiming your hot tub installation as a tax deduction.



    Again; so what. The point is to give people places to live; what you're describing is 'well they aren't following the rules to the letter' - ignoring of course that the rules are deliberately created in such a way to deter people from applying, because this is America and we can't have people getting anything they didn't "earn".
    I am answering your question. i agree it gives people places to live at affordable rates. i never once disputed or disagreed with this. i am 100% for everyone recieving affordable shelter. you asked how this system can be abused. i answered it. it is not to deter people from applying. if you apply at said income but have someone not on the application living with you bringing in more income than you are claiming, then it is a problem. it is the definition of abusing a program. be honest, follow the rules. get affordable housing. its quite simple to adhere to but even according to the department these are areas of concern in their department. this type of abuse prevents honest people from getting in an afforable place to live in a resonable amount of time. you just dont walk on in the office and get housing. there are waiting lists. in some cities up to a year long. in my area up to 8 months. denying this isnt an issue only makes the program more easy to abuse. and prevents people who actually need it have to wait longer to get shelter.

    working under the table while claiming benefits from a government program is fraud. you are not reporting income. you might not even be eligable for said benefits if you claimed your under the table money. meanwhile people who need it cant get it.....
    Last edited by craigw; 2020-08-18 at 03:34 AM.

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