#removevoidform

[Jaewalk]

Enough is enough. Blizzard has had 2 expansions to fix voidform and it keeps getting worse. They clearly cannot

#removevoidform

[Loutzi]

Honestly, I really enjoy voidform. It just needs some tweaks to get going faster. With a fast tank, feels like playing on speed. With a slow tank, it's a snoozefest.
Should be smoothed out a bit imo

[Justpassing]

Of course this garbage thread had to end with a hashtag.

[ff50dccd-a222-42f3-a786]

I always wondered how big percentage of those void form lovers are casual alts.
Just imagine shadow priest is your twink number 6 since this expansion and you puzzled by those endless themes. Like, wtf, I do play 4 hours every week and the current design is pretty fun so far #keepvoidform

[Saltysquidoon]

Probably none since (as someone who only plays shadow as a casual alt) the very things one is most likely to do on a casual alt (questing and dungeons) are the things void form is explicitly bad at.

[Segus1992]

Probably none since (as someone who only plays shadow as a casual alt) the very things one is most likely to do on a casual alt (questing and dungeons) are the things void form is explicitly bad at.

Some of the changes in SL are pretty good specifically for short fights though. Devouring Plague (while it's tuned poorly atm) is a good start and would actually help Shadow a lot. Surrender to Madness being changed to "unless the target dies within 25 sec, you die" turns it into an amazing open world/dungeon talent as you can just use it when a mob is about to die.

I'd still like to see Mind Spike return in some form, but my biggest issue with Shadow is how shitty Void Form feels on fights where it isn't fully used. Devouring Plague should improve that.

[gorkos]

Shadow priest main for legion and bfa here. Leave it in. I like voidform.

[Relapses]

I'm sure Blizzard devs were safely shielded from all criticism of Voidform until this thread introduced the dreaded hashtag. Good job my dude, this thread will surely force them to change their mind.

[A Chozo]

fuck off, #keepvoidform

You will adapt, or you will swap classes. HAH!

[Dropakeg]

This isn't the right place for this thread. Blizz devs don't read mmo-c lol.

That said, yes, void form needs either to be killed or "heavily reworked" to be useful in anything but mythic boss fights or tyrannical bosses.

I say this as a 5/12m shadow main... I love the spec but didn't until I had enough essences and corruption that it was fun again. Shadow was ROUGH through most of bfa.

[bambusxd]

Some of the changes in SL are pretty good specifically for short fights though. Devouring Plague (while it's tuned poorly atm) is a good start and would actually help Shadow a lot. Surrender to Madness being changed to "unless the target dies within 25 sec, you die" turns it into an amazing open world/dungeon talent as you can just use it when a mob is about to die.

I'd still like to see Mind Spike return in some form, but my biggest issue with Shadow is how shitty Void Form feels on fights where it isn't fully used. Devouring Plague should improve that.

So first off - entire devouring plague thing is weird. Right now it just can’t compare the damage from going into voidform void explosion and acces to voidbolt, the damage can’t compare. And they want dp to a thing used mostly in solo content and didnt want to put more things into shadows rotation they said. If they want it to be bursty high damage then why did they give it a 12 sec dot?

S2M in openworld and questing being amazing? What are you on about? It’s absolutely garbage. Lotv lower cost of VE + spelldmg - you can enter voidform faster and that’s gonna give an overall better feeling to play.
S2M doesnt do anything for us since we dont have anything extra build into voidform other than 0.5% haste for every stack. So it’s pure garbage. And if they target dies in 15sec you loose the rest 10 sec and then we wait for s2m to come of cooldown again, with high cost VE, no + spelldamage etc. It just doesnt make any sense and whoever designed it doesnt player shadow.
And an amazing Dungeons talent? Again that’s a no no and no. With dp being a thing right now we could see gameplay like build into voidform, void erupt, use DP to dump out of voidform, build new vf for VE aoe damage. And with the buff being on a mob, you have to let teammembers know they cant kill that mob early But they have to swap and help you kill it at around 20-25s left on buff to actual getting the full use. And then again, the full use of what? Getting 5% more haste from a bit longer voidform with the risk of dying, no spelldamagee% and no low cost of voideruption? It just doesnt add up.
I don’t mean to come off as a dickhead, i just want to elaborate how I see the systems for shadow priest in shadowlands right now. And to me - it’s just a weird spot for the specc overall.

[Segus1992]

So first off - entire devouring plague thing is weird. Right now it just can’t compare the damage from going into voidform void explosion and acces to voidbolt, the damage can’t compare. And they want dp to a thing used mostly in solo content and didnt want to put more things into shadows rotation they said. If they want it to be bursty high damage then why did they give it a 12 sec dot?

S2M in openworld and questing being amazing? What are you on about? It’s absolutely garbage. Lotv lower cost of VE + spelldmg - you can enter voidform faster and that’s gonna give an overall better feeling to play.
S2M doesnt do anything for us since we dont have anything extra build into voidform other than 0.5% haste for every stack. So it’s pure garbage. And if they target dies in 15sec you loose the rest 10 sec and then we wait for s2m to come of cooldown again, with high cost VE, no + spelldamage etc. It just doesnt make any sense and whoever designed it doesnt player shadow.
And an amazing Dungeons talent? Again that’s a no no and no. With dp being a thing right now we could see gameplay like build into voidform, void erupt, use DP to dump out of voidform, build new vf for VE aoe damage. And with the buff being on a mob, you have to let teammembers know they cant kill that mob early But they have to swap and help you kill it at around 20-25s left on buff to actual getting the full use. And then again, the full use of what? Getting 5% more haste from a bit longer voidform with the risk of dying, no spelldamagee% and no low cost of voideruption? It just doesnt add up.
I don’t mean to come off as a dickhead, i just want to elaborate how I see the systems for shadow priest in shadowlands right now. And to me - it’s just a weird spot for the specc overall.

First of all, Devouring Plague being undertuned isn't a real problem, that's a very easy fix. As long as it doesn't become better than Void Form outside of short fights, Blizzard gets what they want. The reason it's a hit/DoT combo rather than a burst hit is because the latter WOULD be better than VF in PvE occasionally, unless it was tuned to be useless. Plus, you already have SW:D for burst.

Second of all, S2M ending the buff as soon as your target dies makes no sense - and the way it's worded on the tooltip implies the bonus lasts for 25 seconds regardless, meaning that if your target dies, you've got the bonus with no risk. I can't confirm that's how it works on alpha as I don't have access, but anything else would be stupid as hell.

Last, with the above assumptions (Devouring Plague being tuned, S2M not ending when the target dies), you've got a setup where you aren't pressured into using your insanity on VF in open world, meaning the insanity reduction and spell damage of LotV isn't necessary. Yes, LotV will probably still be better for sustained damage (raids, mainly), but this way we've got an alternate build for open world and low level M+.

S2M being 100% bonus insanity for 25 seconds out of 2 minutes (25/180 = 14% increased insanity gain average) with cast while moving doesn't mean it's directly comparable to LotV (33% reduced insanity needed for VE + 5% spell damage during VF) in all situations, but with the S2M downside being easily manageable it can definitely become a build of its own.

Also, note: I don't think Shadow is perfect with just Devouring Plague and the S2M change, but I don't necessarily think Shadow needs huge changes to feel good either. Definitely don't have to remove Void Form - just need to make it feel better to not constantly cast it.

[Razion]

The most egregious consensus I hear about Voidform is that it isn't short enough as a burst window where you can take full advantage of it. As a DoT class with long DoTs, a heavy hard-hitting angle of the entire spec seems to be to get long, drawn-out value from long-lasting effects. Sustain fantasy. As someone who doesn't main Priest, I'd worry that people who love this kind of approach to the class would find its removal or adjustment to be more like burst classes a departure of what makes it unique and special. I guess what I'm asking is, if Shadow Priests became more bursty and moved further away from sustain damage playstyle, would there be a riot or would people heartily embrace this? It sounds like homogenization that people like to bemoan. Personally I think I would actually play a Priest more if there was more burst opportunity to it. It sounds more fun. But, then again, not a Priest main. It seems like Devouring Plague being a DoT that retains this sustain fantasy while also being more bursty than Voidform is a compromise. It doesn't seem like burst in the traditional sense, but I guess maybe as bursty as a sustain fantasy can get I suppose while still solving the problem.

[bambusxd]

First of all, Devouring Plague being undertuned isn't a real problem, that's a very easy fix. As long as it doesn't become better than Void Form outside of short fights, Blizzard gets what they want. The reason it's a hit/DoT combo rather than a burst hit is because the latter WOULD be better than VF in PvE occasionally, unless it was tuned to be useless. Plus, you already have SW for burst.

Second of all, S2M ending the buff as soon as your target dies makes no sense - and the way it's worded on the tooltip implies the bonus lasts for 25 seconds regardless, meaning that if your target dies, you've got the bonus with no risk. I can't confirm that's how it works on alpha as I don't have access, but anything else would be stupid as hell.

Last, with the above assumptions (Devouring Plague being tuned, S2M not ending when the target dies), you've got a setup where you aren't pressured into using your insanity on VF in open world, meaning the insanity reduction and spell damage of LotV isn't necessary. Yes, LotV will probably still be better for sustained damage (raids, mainly), but this way we've got an alternate build for open world and low level M+.

S2M being 100% bonus insanity for 25 seconds out of 2 minutes (25/180 = 14% increased insanity gain average) with cast while moving doesn't mean it's directly comparable to LotV (33% reduced insanity needed for VE + 5% spell damage during VF) in all situations, but with the S2M downside being easily manageable it can definitely become a build of its own.

Also, note: I don't think Shadow is perfect with just Devouring Plague and the S2M change, but I don't necessarily think Shadow needs huge changes to feel good either. Definitely don't have to remove Void Form - just need to make it feel better to not constantly cast it.

I dont know how it is right now - But s2m was a buff on target. And if target died we lost the buff.

Dp is a weird thing, they have to make it better than VE But not so strong that it’s always the choice so for Them to balance that? Good luck i say.

Shadow is all about sustained dmg so you would never pick s2m in m+ nor open world. It just doesn’t work like that with how it is right now. And since it’s a buff on a target it’s not easy to manage because we loose the buff when target dies. So if target dies after 10 sec, goodbye to 15s buff. I would always take lotv over s2m. S2m just doesnt work and is badly designed.
And im sorry, But there is lots of things they have to do to rework shadow. You should some of the forumposts blizzard forums.
And join the priest discord where we have lots of discussions about it

But it is as you said “it doesnt make any sense” But that’s how they made it sorry man!

[aryadneae]

I enjoyed Legion VF though it was crappy in M+. BfA VF made no sense. If they want to make VF a ramp up dmg window, then give us reasons/tools to do it. In legion you had Void Torrent, Mass hysteria and (I'm not sure about that) lingering insanity baseline, so you had a reason and tools (Void Torrent, Mind Bender, Dispersion) to maintain it. Also, in legion, above 30 stacks it was frenzy and fun. In BfA you have a shitty, slow and boring rotation (not to mention the removal of SW: D in the execution phase(why on earth did they do that?)). THEY MUST MAKE DP INTERACT WITH THE OTHER DOTS, speed them or something, so you can make use of it in M+

[GlitchOne]

Please remove voidform. That playstyle is a dumpsterfire. If the spec/playstyle isnt approved upon or changed majorly before shadowlands, i will change main (and i have been a Spriest main since WOTLK).

[Segus1992]

Please remove voidform. That playstyle is a dumpsterfire. If the spec/playstyle isnt approved upon or changed majorly before shadowlands, i will change main (and i have been a Spriest main since WOTLK).

Are you just the OP creating new accounts to make it seem like people agree with you?

[Blackmist]

I levelled one recently, and I can see why people dislike it.

The main problem is it's a burst form that's up for like 90% of your rotation. It's not burst at that point. It's just that being out of shadow form feels like a punishment phase.

It needs to be much shorter, a lot more bursty when you're in it, and a lot more fun when you're out of it. I last had a max level shadow priest in Wrath, and I seem to remember it being more fun then.

[Segus1992]

I enjoyed Legion VF though it was crappy in M+. BfA VF made no sense. If they want to make VF a ramp up dmg window, then give us reasons/tools to do it. In legion you had Void Torrent, Mass hysteria and (I'm not sure about that) lingering insanity baseline, so you had a reason and tools (Void Torrent, Mind Bender, Dispersion) to maintain it. Also, in legion, above 30 stacks it was frenzy and fun. In BfA you have a shitty, slow and boring rotation (not to mention the removal of SW: D in the execution phase(why on earth did they do that?)). THEY MUST MAKE DP INTERACT WITH THE OTHER DOTS, speed them or something, so you can make use of it in M+

Legion had the issue of Shadow being absolute garbage in M+ though because almost all of their damage was tied to Void Form, meaning they needed a fight that lasted a minimum of 1-2 minutes to even start doing full DPS. Yes, Void Form is less exciting in BfA, but that's kind of a necessary evil.

Devouring Plague is supposed to be worse than Void Form on longer fights, so it's straight against the design to make it worth using for anything outside of short fight burst. SWD already helps with short fights in M+ anyway, especially with the new talent.

[aryadneae]

Devouring Plague is supposed to be worse than Void Form on longer fights, so it's straight against the design to make it worth using for anything outside of short fight burst. SWD already helps with short fights in M+ anyway, especially with the new talent.

What I mean is that maybe (with a talent or something) Devouring Plague would spread VP and SW: P to enemies nearby and reduce the duration of them to the half while maintaining the dmg. This way in pulls you could put your dots on the main target, DP it, and then mind sear/mind explosion. Repeat on the next pull. In bosses you could use VF because the fight is longer.

I'm not an expert but I think that tuning numbers it could work. Also english is not my mother tongue, hopefully I've explained myself well enough