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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    That is how the law works. You can only convict someone of a crime after they have committed it. It gets problematic when you try to do it the other way around.
    I dont see any imaginary charges being thrown at him.

    This isnt minority report. He got caught doing a lot of bad shit.
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Volatilis View Post
    No need to think about it, he does continue to commit crimes until caught

    I guess by the 10th time he will learn his lesson?
    1. You are assuming there is a lesson that's being taught here. There isn't. That's not the purpose of the American justice/prison system.


    2. No aggregate number of crimes that would individually amount to a few years imprisonment should ever accumulate into something as dumb as life imprisonment for stealing something that costs 35 to 45 dollars at Walmart.

    3. Sentencing in the US is absurd. People are overcharged and over sentenced for nonsense.

    4. One more fucking time... You can't bitch and moan about giving too many second chances to someone WHEN THEY NEVER GAVE THEM A SINGLE ONE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    5. The dude is not fucking Charles Manson. He won't go on a Helter Skelter rampage. Why the shit fuck do you want to spend millions on keep him jailed? You could stick him in assisted living for less!!!!!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Volatilis View Post
    I dont see any imaginary charges being thrown at him.

    This isnt minority report. He got caught doing a lot of bad shit.
    But you are talking about keeping him in prison because of "future crimes"

    That is minority report. Yes, he got caught doing bad shit. And he served his sentence for each incident of "bad shit". And, as I have said...even if you were to stack all his previous crimes together and add it to what a normal sentence would be for the petty theft...he has already served that time and more. The punishment outweighs the severity of his crimes.

  4. #284
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    Sentenced to life for a life of crime. The cost is huge, but the solution is not to release him; we should reduce the cost of keeping people locked up. I'm shocked it costs that much to keep criminals locked up.
    Solution is clearly mental help...

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    Well slave owners are there in China now with millions forced to free labor and no one is giving a shit. On topic, we can build jails in cheap countries and ship the criminals there to serve their time. Save tax payer money ... we can even build better quality prisons with better facilities, food and healthcare. It would be a win-win.
    So, now all these inmates are denied the right to see their families unless said families can afford to travel to another country?

    Seems like that might have an adverse effect on mental health...not just for the prisoners but their families as well.

    Doesn't really seem like a "win/win"

    Not sure why you'd bring China in to this. Generally speaking, I think any country should hold itself to a standard higher than China when it comes to any kind of human rights issue.

  6. #286
    So lets' see the right-wing nonsense arguments so far;
    -Insane disproportional government spending on a private corporation is only ok when it's to protect my hedge clippers

    -Constitutional rights don't apply to them

    -China does worse things and if we can't stop the 'bad' super power's human rights abuses there's no reason to stop the 'good' super power's human rights abuses.

    -I don't care that tough on crime policies have been proven not to work on every conceivable level, Daddy Murdoch told me they are coming to do crimes at me.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    Ignoring slavery and concentration camps is not acceptable. It's not enough to "hold your self to a higher standard" while watch millions get enslaved or forced into genocidal birth control rates.
    Once again, China has nothing to do with this discussion. Make a thread about how China handles it's prisons if that's what you want to discuss.

    China does worse is not an argument for why America can't do better.

    Anyways you bring a good point regarding visits; that's probably the only disadvantage for such prisons. So it's kinda of a trade off that you have to weigh in.
    It isn't a trade off. It's a violation of their rights.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    That is how the law works. You can only convict someone of a crime after they have committed it. It gets problematic when you try to do it the other way around.
    the law also said he can get life on his third strike, and he got 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Last I heard innocent until proven guilty was still a thing. Sending someone to jail for the rest of his life because you think he might commit more crimes kinda goes against that.
    problem is, he is still a repeat offender, a career criminal, with no expectations of stopping. his argument to the court isn't that he will stop and try to live crime free, its essentially 'life imprisonment is cruel, i want to be free'.
    Last edited by zhero; 2020-08-14 at 01:14 AM.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    the law also said he can get life on his third strike, and he got 5.
    Almost like we're criticizing the nonsense law regarding three strikes. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    problem is, he is still a repeat offender, a career criminal, with no expectations of stopping. his argument to the court isn't that he will stop and try to live crime free, its essentially 'life imprisonment is cruel, i want to be free'.
    Because for his crimes, life imprisonment is cruel.

  10. #290
    This particular case already went to the Supreme Court and it went nowhere.
    So, a non-issue to me.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    the law also said he can get life on his third strike, and he got 5.
    Yes, we are all aware of that. The fact that it happened does not make it right.

    problem is, he is still a repeat offender, a career criminal, with no expectations of stopping. his argument to the court isn't that he will stop and try to live crime free, its essentially 'life imprisonment is cruel, i want to be free'.
    His argument is that he has already served 23 years for attempting to steal a garden tool.

    Life imprisonment should be reserved for violent crimes.

    Once again, if his "3 strikes" were all violent offenses this discussion would be different.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    This particular case already went to the Supreme Court and it went nowhere.
    So, a non-issue to me.
    What kind of argument is that?

    Lots of things have gone to the supreme court...are they all "non-issues" to you?

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    This particular case already went to the Supreme Court and it went nowhere.
    So, a non-issue to me.
    *state supreme court.

    If America is anything like Australia the quality and reliability of state supreme court judgments can vary from basically as good as it gets to not even worth reading.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    *state supreme court.

    If America is anything like Australia the quality and reliability of state supreme court judgments can vary from basically as good as it gets to not even worth reading.
    But that is as far as it can go.
    The state Supreme Court is the final court that can rule on state cases.
    This isn't a federal issue. The US Supreme Court can't touch this.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    But that is as far as it can go.
    The state Supreme Court is the final court that can rule on state cases.
    This isn't a federal issue. The US Supreme Court can't touch this.
    It's an 8th amendment case so I'm pretty sure it's theoretically appealable to the US supreme court.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  15. #295
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    But that is as far as it can go.
    The state Supreme Court is the final court that can rule on state cases.
    This isn't a federal issue. The US Supreme Court can't touch this.
    It most certainly can rule on this - state's routinely have their death penalty ruling reviewed by SCOTUS. And many other criminal and civil rulings. What the case won't do is wind through the Federal appellate system - it will request cert with SCOTUS, and then that's it.

  16. #296
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    It's an 8th amendment case so I'm pretty sure it's theoretically appealable to the US supreme court.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth...ically_allowed

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    So lets' see the right-wing nonsense arguments so far;
    -Insane disproportional government spending on a private corporation is only ok when it's to protect my hedge clippers

    -Constitutional rights don't apply to them

    -China does worse things and if we can't stop the 'bad' super power's human rights abuses there's no reason to stop the 'good' super power's human rights abuses.

    -I don't care that tough on crime policies have been proven not to work on every conceivable level, Daddy Murdoch told me they are coming to do crimes at me.
    To summarize, all they have is "my feelings matter more than your facts".

    Nothing new.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonbrown View Post
    So how many 2nd chances should we give him? He's a career criminal and the streets are safer without him. Not losing any sleep over this one.
    And at same time you sell guns to 16 year old kids that go to a shooting rampage while not letting others drink before 21.

  19. #299
    The most hilarious part is underneath the section where thy upheld a life sentence for stealing video tapes there's and analysis of proportionality and evolving standards of decency.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  20. #300
    Banned Noxx79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    This particular case already went to the Supreme Court and it went nowhere.
    So, a non-issue to me.
    Why are you equating morality with the law?

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