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  1. #321
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    no it isn't... lol...
    Really showing yourself worthy of debating Marcus Aurelius.
    /s

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    no it isn't... lol...
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7234816/

    This is applicable anywhere.

    For real? Like for realz realz? This isn't something you realized yet? Jesus fucking Christ.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Poverty is the mother of crime. Marcus Aurelius.

    If a 2nd century Roman Emperor can wrap his head around this concept, how is that you can't?

    Furthermore the American justice system is literally intentionally designed to prevent people from being rehabilitated. On top of that race both plays into why people are poor and thus likely to commit a crime and to how they are unable to escape the prison trap.

    Your whole shtick of dismissing how race plays into social issues like this kinda suggest to me you might be one of those tiki torch marchers.
    You're the one who brought up race twice. Why did you bring up white college jocks and rape?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Lastman#Controversy
    Mel Lastman's wife was very rich when she shoplifted.

    Explain why rich businessmen embezzle money.
    Last edited by dextersmith; 2020-10-18 at 01:36 AM.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    That's just obscene... life sentencings should be for violent criminals that area danger to society, petty theft isn't...
    Did you miss the part where he was also convicted of attempted armed robbery? Not to mention the slew of other crimes he committed. It wasn’t the fact he got locked up over stealing hedge clippers, which reads like a CNN article. It’s the fact he was given many second chances. He used up all his second chances.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Did you miss the part where he was also convicted of attempted armed robbery? Not to mention the slew of other crimes he committed. It wasn’t the fact he got locked up over stealing hedge clippers, which reads like a CNN article. It’s the fact he was given many second chances. He used up all his second chances.
    Petty crime shouldn't be a life sentence regardless.

  6. #326
    Bloodsail Admiral Raspberry Lemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7234816/

    This is applicable anywhere.

    For real? Like for realz realz? This isn't something you realized yet? Jesus fucking Christ.
    it isnt lol... some of the most notorious criminals in my town are rich... they have gotten people killed or hurt for life and still not in prison...
    Last edited by Raspberry Lemon; 2020-10-18 at 09:20 AM.

  7. #327
    Epic! Hansworst's Avatar
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    Anecdotal evidence, the pinnacle of truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  8. #328
    Well, now I feel safe enough to walk the streets. Thanks, rule of law.

  9. #329
    Not sure if the guy will learn anything (most likely not) it still is good that it is not life for him. Proportional punishment is a concept that even child could understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    When you ask 5 people what the point of jail is, to result in 5 different answers... it should be obvious that the concept of jail is a social failure in it self.
    Yeah, no. Some people literally are too dangerous to be kept free. And if you don't let them go free you automatically get something called prison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    no it isn't... lol...
    Just because some rich people steal does not mean that the majority of crimes are petty theft. We are talking on average.
    I am sure you are gonna ask for statistics now...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  10. #330
    Canada is the new west.

    All the greatness of the west... Capitalism, Freedom, Democracy, it's all there. It's even on the same landmass.

  11. #331
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Really showing yourself worthy of debating Marcus Aurelius.
    To be fair, your current resident provides a fairly solid argument against it. Hundreds of millions, but his adult life (and probably his teens too) have been an endless series of crimes he's never been called to account for.

    And wage theft outweighs all other kinds of theft.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  12. #332
    Bloodsail Admiral Raspberry Lemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post

    Just because some rich people steal does not mean that the majority of crimes are petty theft. We are talking on average.
    I am sure you are gonna ask for statistics now...
    some of the most notorious criminals in my town are rich people... one got an employee killed by willingly violating safety regulations... stayed out of prison... one hit a couple while drunk driving, he claimed his car was stolen and it wasn't him driving... stayed out of prison... one dumped toxic waste from his industry in nature... stayed out of prison... the son of one of the richer people assaulted someone with his friends at a club for "looking at him the wrong way" and stayed out of prison...

    another guy, not rich but not poor either got his friends and went home to a guy and tried to kill him because he had been flirting with his girlfriend earlier during the day...

    you going to tell me they did this because they're poor?
    Last edited by Raspberry Lemon; 2020-10-20 at 02:24 AM.

  13. #333
    I guess when Marcus Aurelius was saying that, he did not have to deal with corporate crime as much. Also, law was a little different back then to say the least. To paraphrase him by today's standards would be something along the lines of "poverty is the mother of "hands on", "violent" and direct "person to person" crime". As a rule of thumb, we do not normally see rich people mugging in dark alleys or breaking into people's houses. Also, these waves of rioting we see lately are not because of extra disposable income people do not know what to do with. Make people feel like sh*t and they will try making everyone around feel like sh*t just to get even. That is almost biblical.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by dextersmith View Post
    His second chances should have been spent getting help instead of stealing. A career criminal is a career criminal, why bring up race?
    The problem is the government needs to begin providing free rehabilitation and living facilities for those who want to correct their lives. Without a system in place to properly help someone reform they will almost always be doomed to live a life of crime, both due to restrictions placed upon them by the government themselves which will make finding gainful employment almost impossible for most. The government is hurting everyone but more so those individuals of color or those not of the preferred religions of the USA.

    In Canada we have a big problem with first nation genocide, it has been going on for years and much of our government has tried to hide it and we are all finally starting to see it now.

    We have problems, lets all push to fix them at their roots instead of using Band-Aids that eventually break down/tear and leave the injury in a worsened state.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - Sire Denathrius confirmed to have created the Dreadlords.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    some of the most notorious criminals in my town are rich people... one got an employee killed by willingly violating safety regulations... stayed out of prison... one hit a couple while drunk driving, he claimed his car was stolen and it wasn't him driving... stayed out of prison... one dumped toxic waste from his industry in nature... stayed out of prison... the son of one of the richer people assaulted someone with his friends at a club for "looking at him the wrong way" and stayed out of prison...

    another guy, not rich but not poor either got his friends and went home to a guy and tried to kill him because he had been flirting with his girlfriend earlier during the day...

    you going to tell me they did this because they're poor?
    Again, word average and your subjective experience are different things. The rich people hate is ridiculous sometimes.
    Poverty drives the petty theft crimes...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  16. #336
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    it isnt lol... some of the most notorious criminals in my town are rich... they have gotten people killed or hurt for life and still not in prison...
    They are notorious because they are only criminals by the name you call them, not the fact that they are convicted.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    you going to tell me they did this because they're poor?
    No, sensationalism isn’t the norm... you don’t have stories published about most crime...
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    it isnt lol... some of the most notorious criminals in my town are rich... they have gotten people killed or hurt for life and still not in prison...
    That's a wild and intentional misunderstanding of the debate at hand, the perception of crime and the functioning of the justice system.

    You can have a separate conversation about just what exactly do we perceive as a threat to society and how do we punish that, but that's a whole different conversation.

    White collar crime, wage theft, major financial crimes and graft are already illegal, but we have a fundamental society wide problem with actually grasping the consequences of these forms of crime, even tho, they are often way more damaging than petty crime.

    The perception problem has layers upon layers, one is that the average Joe often sees things like corruption, graft, tax evasion, money laundering and whatnot as victimless crimes. People don't feel personally harmed like they would if someone stole 100 bucks from their wallets, even tho in abstract, that's exactly what is happening to them.

    Another layer is that of the power that wealth provides to change perceptions. In our weird lizard brains we can't help ourselves from giving deference to someone who shows up in 10000 dollar suit escorted by a personal army of 500 dollar an hour attorneys using big words and slick legalities.

    There are many more layers to this.

    Ultimately what we as a society "see" as crime is not your boss making you do 100 hours of unpaid overtime a year but the loser who stole a pair of 30 dollar hedge clippers.

    That's why crime of the latter category is the one the quote "Poverty is the mother of crime" applies to.

    You either haven't wrapped your brain around these complexities yet, and how the quote even highlights the injustice in how we perceive crime, or you are intentionally engaging in semantic bullshit for the sake of it.

    You really do a lot of this semantics bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  18. #338
    Bloodsail Admiral Raspberry Lemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post

    No, sensationalism isn’t the norm... you don’t have stories published about most crime...
    sensationalism? a small notice that could easily get missed in the newspapers... at the same time of the drunk driver newspapers made a big deal out of local political drama... saying they had violated law about buying property for the municipality... that was what you saw when you opened a newspaper... the political drama... that was all over the front page... and they kept at it for weeks... meanwhile the drunk driver just had a small notice in the corner... 4 short sentences about it in the paper... a lot of people who you ask in town don't even know it was him who did it, some don't even know it happened...

    mentally ill man assaults someone so bad they died? his face and name plastered all over the news... rich guy hits someone while drunk driving? no name, no picture, nothing except a few short sentences...

    death of an employee because of the employer violating safety regulations? a few short sentences... talks about accident... not that safety regulations were violated... shrugged off entirely as an accident...

    and you call this sensationalism? they're downplaying what they have done...
    Last edited by Raspberry Lemon; 2020-10-21 at 07:08 AM.

  19. #339
    So how many 2nd chances should we give him? He's a career criminal and the streets are safer without him. Not losing any sleep over this one

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Steal hundreds/thousands? Life in prison. Steal billions? Too big to jail.
    Fixed that for you.

    This for me gets to the crux of things. I'd have an easier time with this if I felt the law was applied equally. Are there many here who honestly thinks that this is the case? The 2008 financial crash was such a colossal demonstration of this.

    That being said, there has to be consequences for a career criminal, even if it is largely non violent, if you have your rights violated there should be legal recourse, I am certainly not one of those people who think "oH iTs jUsT tHeFt bOoHoO", it certainly isn't rape or murder, but it also isn't nothing, and I do believe that after a point you should be expected to be responsible for your actions. You can't blame the system or the man all your life.

    However this seems extreme and not proportional. There has to be a better way to deal with people like that. Don't get me wrong- I am not saying he is just some victim and his wellbeing should be the primary or sole focus (though I am not saying it should be ignored either), after a point I think it is perfectly reasonable to tell someone to get out of their own way and get a grip of their life, plenty of people get dealt a bad hand and don't behave like this. Just not convinced that life imprisonment is the way to go about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


    Remember, legally no one sane takes Tucker Carlson seriously.

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