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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    So now gang members get free bread and Netflix AND my wallet and car? Why should I bother with my shitty job I'm gonna join a gang tomorrow then
    risk vs reward? crime does pay, very well too. but you're rolling the dice against more than just the justice system.

  2. #122
    Brewmaster wunksta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    risk vs reward? crime does pay, very well too. but you're rolling the dice against more than just the justice system.
    Crime usually pays because of ridiculous draconian drug laws that create a lucrative black market.

  3. #123
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Jay walking shouldn't be a crime. Just like not wearing your seat belt isn't a crime. It's a fine

    Theft is 100% a crime
    No Jaywalking is a crime, not wearing your seat belt is a crime, no it isn't ok, you are simply rationalizing being more strict than the law allows for one rather than the other. Speeding is also a crime, all of the above have lead to deaths and a lot of them due to people doing those things.

    Stealing, has effectively lead to almost no deaths or grave harm by themselves
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    That sucks man, and nobody here is arguing that there should be no consequences for theft, especially theft of items with objectively higher value like a car and a wallet. Hope they catch the guy and he serves some time for his crimes.

    I'm not sure what the fuck this has to do with a guy who is in prison for life for trying to steal a pair of hedge trimmers.
    Well when you get 0 help from police. Government. And are expected to just have insurance to cover it. Its really fucking annoying no one gives a shit. So when people talk about theft as some petty crime that shouldn't be another bonus for the prisons quarterly profits I like to point out the other side of the argument. That there are victims and you don't know how it effects that victim. I struggle with anxiety and Im getting emails from banks telling me they need info for account creation when whoever stole the car/wallet they have my drivers licence. It's stressful and you get no help unless you have a good insurance company. So prisons win. Insurance companies win
    And the victim always loses
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by wunksta View Post
    Crime usually pays because of ridiculous draconian drug laws that create a lucrative black market.
    small crime happens because of immediate need.
    big crime happens because something creates a imbalance between supply an demand (most often caused by government regulations, drugs being the obvious example.)

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post

    Stealing, has effectively lead to almost no deaths or grave harm by themselves
    If you say so
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  7. #127
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    So now gang members get free bread and Netflix AND my wallet and car? Why should I bother with my shitty job I'm gonna join a gang tomorrow then
    Well then why don't you just make the same choices then you can get the same thing? Answer: Because what you just said is nonsense, that isn't at all what prison is. Because while you gloss over the other parts let me clue you in.

    Prison means being locked in a cage 24/7, Prison means not being able to have to option to visit relatives or loved ones even when they are sick or dying. Prison means missing out on the lives of those you care about while they fade away and so do you.

    Oh but yes, you get Bread, and Netflix, and temporarily Wallet, and a Car

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    If you say so
    They haven't and cars can be insured, your cards in your wallet replaced, the people that stole that, they are headed towards a future that has no future.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  8. #128
    Brewmaster wunksta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Well when you get 0 help from police. Government. And are expected to just have insurance to cover it. Its really fucking annoying no one gives a shit. So when people talk about theft as some petty crime that shouldn't be another bonus for the prisons quarterly profits I like to point out the other side of the argument. That there are victims and you don't know how it effects that victim. I struggle with anxiety and Im getting emails from banks telling me they need info for account creation when whoever stole the car/wallet they have my drivers licence. It's stressful and you get no help unless you have a good insurance company. So prisons win. Insurance companies win
    And the victim always loses
    I don't think anyone is saying that the criminal shouldn't be punished or that victims don't deserve restitution. The issue most people have here is the penalty doesn't fit the crime and only creates a financial burden for the rest of society.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    And what help do you give thieves exactly?

    Give them free stuff so they don't need to steal?

    Some people steal for fun/the rush. I doubt those shears were life and death for him. Probably did it because he was bored
    And once again, that doesn't require locking him up for life.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Well then why don't you just make the same choices then you can get the same thing? Answer: Because what you just said is nonsense, that isn't at all what prison is. Because while you gloss over the other parts let me clue you in.

    Prison means being locked in a cage 24/7, Prison means not being able to have to option to visit relatives or loved ones even when they are sick or dying. Prison means missing out on the lives of those you care about while they fade away and so do you.

    Oh but yes, you get Bread, and Netflix, and temporarily Wallet, and a Car

    - - - Updated - - -



    They haven't and cars can be insured, your cards in your wallet replaced, the people that stole that, they are headed towards a future that has no future.
    So screw my anxiety and thoughts of suicide because post covid in a job I don't like wasn't enough now I have to deal with a massive work shop bill and general feeling of people are selfish pieces of shit. You don't know Jack bro
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Well when you get 0 help from police. Government. And are expected to just have insurance to cover it.
    if it was a crack addict he probably just ditched the car somewhere, might wanna check impound lots.

    if it was a actual car thief, you'd never get the car back and even if you got a conviction the damages would never be recoverable.

    insurance is just mandatory here, mostly so there is a decent guarantee whoever does you foul can actually pay up.

  12. #132
    Brewmaster wunksta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    So screw my anxiety and thoughts of suicide because post covid in a job I don't like wasn't enough now I have to deal with a massive work shop bill and general feeling of people are selfish pieces of shit. You don't know Jack bro
    Honestly it sounds like misplaced anger. Terrible things happen, and that crack addict is still living in a terrible situation. I get being angry about the theft but even that crack addict doesn't deserve life in prison for that theft.

  13. #133
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    So screw my anxiety and thoughts of suicide because post covid in a job I don't like wasn't enough now I have to deal with a massive work shop bill and general feeling of people are selfish pieces of shit. You don't know Jack bro
    Anxiety is something you are likely to have with or without someone stealing your wallet or car. And again stealing is NEVER OK! It isn't ok to steal from you even if I disagree with you or whatever anyone may feel. That isn't the point here. You brought that up as an example.

    The problem is this guy in the OP isn't the one that did anything to you, and we can't punish him for something he didn't do, we go by the evidence and what we know. He stealing yes, but I am saying we should look into why.

    Just like you getting your stuff taken, obviously it is a lot more than just a car and your wallet.

    However question is not whether we can't have compassion for both.


    The question I am suggesting is that if the guy stealing is a disorder, then stopping that has to be done a certain way, PRISON isn't going to fix that if it isn't a choice. Sure we can throw him in prison for life, but then other people like YOU and ME and everyone else has to pay for his NETFLIX, and whatever the hell else.
    Last edited by Doctor Amadeus; 2020-08-08 at 11:09 PM.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Well when you get 0 help from police. Government. And are expected to just have insurance to cover it. Its really fucking annoying no one gives a shit.
    So be mad at the cops then for not doing their jobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    So when people talk about theft as some petty crime
    We're not. We're talking about petty theft like attempting to steal a hedge trimmer as petty crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    That there are victims and you don't know how it effects that victim.
    So track down the guy whose hedge trimmer was almost stolen and ask him if he thinks that life in prison is a fitting consequence.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    I struggle with anxiety and Im getting emails from banks telling me they need info for account creation when whoever stole the car/wallet they have my drivers licence. It's stressful and you get no help unless you have a good insurance company. So prisons win. Insurance companies win
    Again, your issue is with police and your insurance company, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    And the victim always loses
    And nobody is saying that the victim should lose.

    Good lord dude, we're here with you and aren't gonna dismiss you as a victim. But like, what this guy did and what happened to you are vastly different.

  15. #135
    So those who support this punishment, what do you want? Crime prevention? Punishment? Rehabilitation (yeah fucking right, lol)? What is that you want?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Well when you get 0 help from police. Government. And are expected to just have insurance to cover it. Its really fucking annoying no one gives a shit. So when people talk about theft as some petty crime that shouldn't be another bonus for the prisons quarterly profits I like to point out the other side of the argument. That there are victims and you don't know how it effects that victim. I struggle with anxiety and Im getting emails from banks telling me they need info for account creation when whoever stole the car/wallet they have my drivers licence. It's stressful and you get no help unless you have a good insurance company. So prisons win. Insurance companies win
    And the victim always loses
    Sounds like none of your problems would be solved by sending the thief to prison for the rest of his life.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.unodc.org/documents/data...nd_Justice.pdf

    Page 41



    Older data but like...no? US is in the highest quartile along with a handful of countries with better social safety nets in Europe like Spain and Great Britain. Most of the EU countries are well below the US with France at the bottom end, Denmark, Finland, Greece, and Norway in the second lowest group, and Austria, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland being below the US in the second highest group.
    the lowest rates appear to be regions where they used to chop thieves hands off. lets bring that back.

  18. #138
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    So those who support this punishment, what do you want? Crime prevention? Punishment? Rehabilitation (yeah fucking right, lol)? What is that you want?
    Personally all of the above, and if their is a priority, Punishment, Crime Prevention then Rehabilitation. I am not against Robert Carlos here totally, I have no love for criminal pieces of shit who do this kind of shit, and while I do recognize some have issues and need, I am also not naive that some do this by choice because they deserve to be in prison and monitored 24/7, and if our justice system could be 100% correct in all cases, I would advocate for a lot harsher punishment than prison.

    Yeah nothing funny or cute about some piece of shit who actively chooses to steal other peoples shit, and ruin things for other people who work for them

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    the lowest rates appear to be regions where they used to chop thieves hands off. lets bring that back.
    Yeah, those regions are also notorious for their own crimes, like those against humanity that force people into extreme situations. When you have a justice system not about justice, and ONLY about punishment, you get the kind of shit where people are cutting off the limbs of suspected criminals rather than those guilty, they are also most of the time responsible for creating the situation in the first place, that pushes the guilty into things like stealing fucking BREAD!
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    the lowest rates appear to be regions where they used to chop thieves hands off. lets bring that back.
    I'd imagine it's more to do with questionable reporting than harsh punishments. If harsh punishments would work as a deterrent (it doesn't), US wouldn't be nearly as high as it is right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Man...I really wasn't expecting to be as disgusted by the thread itself as I was by its premise. MMO-C, always keeping you on your toes.
    My thoughts exactly in here tbh...

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