Protests Erupt in Belarus Following Election

[Felya]

It's arguable whether it would have been better if the whites had won the civil war afterwards, but the monarchy getting deposed wasn't bad.

Sure, I’m also not being fair for the time, since am using hindsight.

[NED funded]

Russian revolution, the cuban revolution, The Haitian Revolution, the American revolution, the Dutch Revolution.

I can think of many more, not just a 'few'.

The Haitian revolution didnt result in more chaos for Haiti?? What???? Im pretty sure you just read that the slaves rised up and that was it but in case you arent aware Haiti is among the poorest countries in the americas rn

[Felya]

I think Peter The Great was better than the revolution:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_the_Great

Oh and since I was saying it years ago and few believed me... well... it’s now in Wikipedia with a reference and I had nothing to do with it:

Peter implemented social modernization in an absolute manner by introducing French and western dress to his court and requiring courtiers, state officials, and the military to shave their beards and adopt modern clothing styles.

/micdrop

[Mihalik]

Lukashenko - I won 80% of the votes! Totes my dudes! Had I rigged the elections I would have won 99% of the vote, like the last time! See, I'm totally not cheating.

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Was Russian revolution good for the country?...

I think that's really hard question to answer. I wrote about this a bit more extensively in another thread.

But with the benefit of 100 years of hindsight... I'm inclined to say that yes the Revolution of 1917 did in fact produce a beneficial outcome for Russia.

Industrialization, education and land reform has been a major challenge throughout Russian history...the two Russian Tsars who tackled those issues with any degree of success both went down in history as "the Great"...Peter and Catherine. Yet they both fell spectacularly short of their own ambitions. And they both shed a helluva lot of blood to get the incremental improvements that they managed to eek out in the end.

Tho the Romanovs were most certainly not Catherine or Peter.

Tsarist Russia was much worse off than most people imagine it to be today.

Sure St Petersburg and Moscow seemed all European and nice, but 90% of Russians lived in the Russia that was indistinguishable from the Russia from 200 years prior. The Tsarist secret police Okhrana was just as nutty and excessive as the NKDV was at its worst. The Soviet Gulags also weren't a post revolutionary "innovation" just the revival of the Tsarist Katorgas (exact same damn thing as gulag just under a different name).

When we look at stuff like the Holodomor and the Gulags and the secret police we can't really imagine how the Russian people might have seen this as an improvement... But the odd and terrible fact is... All that horrible shit existed before too... But now at least most Russians weren't starving anymore because in the Soviet system at least some meritocracy and technocratic skill found its way in to government... While in Tsarist Russia you sorta had to hope that once every couple of generations there'll be a widly competent aristocrat born into a powerful enough position to effect some degree of positive change.

[Slant]

And here is the correct EU response. A strongly worded letter:

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/p...ial-elections/

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Sure St Petersburg and Moscow seemed all European and nice, but 90% of Russians lived in the Russia that was indistinguishable from the Russia from 200 years prior.

So, not much changed until today, huh... totally worth it.

[Easo]

I love how all his wins are 80+%.
Last time we had those numbers was in the Soviet times, with 98.97% voting for the communist party. Very realistic, right?

The opposition leader running to Lithuania and the video with her seemingly having been made in the office of the Belorussian Central Voting Comitee (https://twitter.com/bananstena/statu...42750838259712) kinda screams to me that she likely was threatened, probably about husband and her kids.
Also the 40% votes having been made ahead of the time is just not possible. Nowhere in the world you will ever see such high number.

Yet... I do not think anything much will change. It is clear (and I think to Lukashenko too) that he is not as popular as he was, that people are actually getting pissed off. Question is, what he will do? A bit too fast to shuffle the leadership over to his son, who is way too young yet.

[Mihalik]

So, not much changed until today, huh... totally worth it.

There are in fact...degrees of horrible.

[Slant]

There are in fact...degrees of horrible.

Sure about that? Russians are oppressed, they have no voice whatsoever in how the country is run, they get randomly arrested for random bullshit and "disappear", they're poor and nobody wants to have anything to do with them. Seems like the same old story if you ask me.

[zealo]

Sure about that? Russians are oppressed, they have no voice whatsoever in how the country is run, they get randomly arrested for random bullshit and "disappear", they're poor and nobody wants to have anything to do with them. Seems like the same old story if you ask me.

Things in Russia has changed significantly in the last century, even if they're still haunted by the scars of communism economically and dealing with other state sponsored bullshit Russians always has.

Alongside fixing long-standing literacy issues, the census done around 1900 in the Russian Empire pegged urbanization rate at around 10% somewhere, today that number is around 75.

[Theodarzna]

Smells like another "color revolution", my bet is there is calls for privatization and austerity should this succeed.

[Slant]

Things in Russia has changed significantly in the last century, even if they're still haunted by the scars of communism economically and dealing with other state sponsored bullshit Russians always has.

Alongside fixing long-standing literacy issues, the census done around 1900 in the Russian Empire pegged urbanization rate at around 10% somewhere, today that number is around 75.

It's the same thing all over again, just as a different brand. First it was the Tsar, then it was the Communists, now it's the freak show "democracy" they sell. It's the same as in China. I've often puzzled why these two countries (as the most prominent examples) don't have a proper revolution like most European countries did. You know, the type that actually changes things for the better.

My conclusion so far is... they don't actually understand what freedom means. To them it's a slogan, a lie to be told so someone can sell you something. Take Chinese people, to them Communism never changed all that much. Whether the simple man on the street is oppressed by an Emperor or by a Communist party, it's how life always was. They're probably not even aware just how big the oppression is. To them it's normal. And whoever is calling the shots doesn't really matter. If you've been oppressed for two millenia, it takes a monumental gear shift in your mental state to realise that... you could run the country along with everyone else, and get protection from oppression baked into a constitution, a social contract that everyone agrees with. It just doesn't compute for them. I think Russians are in the same mental state. And as a Russian recently told me, they don't care a whole lot about who's running the country. It's not them either way, so why bother?

Nah, I think Russia hasn't progressed at all, socially. Sure, more people can read, and they may live in city slums instead of villages in the countryside, but overalll, they're still in the shitty position they used to be in. Except now they can read lies instead of having a dude come round the village and tell them lies verbally.

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Still could and was worse during the Empire were the majority outside a couple of urban centers lived stuck in a pre-industrialized state as serfs. Just cause something is bad doesn't mean it wasn't even worse before.

Superficial progress, really. I mean, fair point, but still not all that impressive. Politically and socially Russia hasn't done that much for its citizens.

[JohnBrown1917]

Smells like another "color revolution", my bet is there is calls for privatization and austerity should this succeed.

They dont need a revolution to fuck the poor in Belarus, the current president is already doing a good job.

[Ihavewaffles]

Smells like another "color revolution", my bet is there is calls for privatization and austerity should this succeed.

That's what keeps guys like lukashenko in power, knowing west is run by neo liberal wolves..

[Mihalik]

That's what keeps guys like lukashenko in power, knowing west is run by neo liberal wolves..

What keeps Lukashenko in power is the same thing that keeps every autocrat in power. A gun and the willingness to use it, not some ill defined alleged fear of hamburgers and shitty Amazon warehouse jobs.

Neo liberals are bad, but your solution as in fascism would be worse as it's just neoliberalism with a gun.

Lukashenko is not a neoliberal, he's just a kleptocrat.

[Theodarzna]

They dont need a revolution to fuck the poor in Belarus, the current president is already doing a good job.

That's what keeps guys like lukashenko in power, knowing west is run by neo liberal wolves..

Having your country undergo what Russia did in the 90's is always bad.

[JohnBrown1917]

Having your country undergo what Russia did in the 90's is always bad.

So pretty much what Lakashenko already did. His brand of far right nutjobbery is not better than neo-liberalism.

[Milchshake]

Having your country undergo what Russia did in the 90's is always bad.

Complaining that a country lost it's colonies, is very on brand for you.

How Stuart Restoration fan fiction going?

In my version, the newly restored monarch sweeps a middle-aged Karen off her feet. Rescuing her from a neo-liberal life, because of twitter posts!

[Theodarzna]

Complaining that a country lost it's colonies, is very on brand for you.

How Stuart Restoration fan fiction going?

In my version, the newly restored monarch sweeps a middle-aged Karen off her feet. Rescuing her from a neo-liberal life, because of twitter posts!

Listen Biden Brethren are all for the encroachment of US corporations into yet another country and strip mining it for the last few huffs of life, but I oppose any color revolution and can see through CIA spooks working their magic for yet more privatization and austerity.

[Elegiac]

Complaining that a country lost it's colonies, is very on brand for you.

How Stuart Restoration fan fiction going?

In my version, the newly restored monarch sweeps a middle-aged Karen off her feet. Rescuing her from a neo-liberal life, because of twitter posts!

Real MLM/WLM solidarity is making one's political beliefs entirely mutable once you find sufficiently good pole.

[Mihalik]

Listen Biden Brethren are all for the encroachment of US corporations into yet another country and strip mining it for the last few huffs of life, but I oppose any color revolution and can see through CIA spooks working their magic for yet more privatization and austerity.

As a Bernie Bro *sic, who will vote for Biden (tho I believe him to be a senile rapist neolib) I repeat what I have said before.

There are degrees of terrible. I will throw up in my mouth and feel disgusted with myself for years to come but I will vote for Biden to save America from dying in a pandemic/economic collapse/fascist power grab. Only as recently as April I wouldn't have voted for Biden.

Lukashenko is not some shield against austerity and the predations of capitalism. He is a murdering kleptocrat.