Protests Erupt in Belarus Following Election

[callipygoustp]

So, about that election in Belarus.....

[Easo]

So, about that election in Belarus.....

Lukash is promising to "investigate the mass detentions" while releasing those detained and is doing the usual blah blah how the economy will be taken over by foreigners if this continues, while at the same time officials are saying "that there was no torture, beatings, etc.". Police and OMON have more or less left the streets and company workers are doing mass protests at their workplaces.
Seems goverment decided to change their tactics when it was clear that people really, really did not like what OMON did.
Tikhanovskaya is back too in a sense that she is now calling people to protest, with the emphasis on peacefully.

[Ihavewaffles]

Mongols had a far greater impact culturally on Russia, than Europe... the further East you go in Russia, the greater cultural impact of Mongols. Then there are the Tatars that even held Kiev, the original capital of Russia/Prussia, which wasn’t returned until Peter the Great...

This contrasts well with Europe, to show the eastern and Turkish influence:
http://toptours.info/w/r21/files/kraj-kuban.jpg

Eurasia has had semi-nomad influences since antiquity, back to Sarmatians etc. long before tatars n mongols came along, so shush with your ignorance

[zealo]

Who does?

Unrelated: keklol that anyone is replying with more than a single word or line to that poster, they're fucking nuts.

People aware of that the geographical boundary of Europe runs at the Ural mountains, and that Russian expansion to the east is semi-recent in history.

That Russia stretches all the way to the pacific is more of a quirk of history than Russians as a people not being Europeans, which they are.

[Ihavewaffles]

Again, there's a difference. Hitler and the Nazis drew their power from popular support. Sure there were outliers, there was even resistance, but ultimately the Nazis were the Vox Populi who loudly cheered for the persecution of "non Aryans". The Nazis were a manifestation of the widespread anti semitism, racism and sense of racial/ethnic superiority that permeated German society.

Desallines wasn't popular (remember the whole beaten to death in the streets part). He didn't take or hold onto power by popular acclaim. His power was derived from his control of the army. Hitler's control of the army was derived from his control of the government which was derived from popular support.

Desallines control of the army ven was also tenuous, which is why he killed the French and persecuted the mulattos. Even then he fairly quickly lost control, despite the extremes he went to...or more likely because of them.

Note, nobody has ever called the Haitian Massacre a genocide. Not then, not since.

It's political nature, the method of execution and its scale do not qualify it as a genocide.

Also note that I'm quite critical of the Haitian Revolution, and I specifically used it as an example of a failed revolution.

The only person in this conversation with an ideological (racist) narrative here is you.

You are digging yourself deeper...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre

The 1804 Haiti massacre was carried out against the French population and French Creoles (or Franco-Haitians) remaining in Haiti following the Haitian Revolution, by soldiers, mostly former slaves, under orders from Jean-Jacques Dessalines. He had decreed that all suspected of conspiring in the acts of the expelled army should be put to death.[1] It has been described as a genocide.

Eyewitness accounts of the massacre describe imprisonment and killings even of whites who had been friendly and sympathetic to the black population.[20]

In parallel to the killings, plundering and rape also occurred.[19] Women and children were generally killed last. White women were "often raped or pushed into forced marriages under threat of death."[19]

Aftermath
By the end of April 1804, some 3,000 to 5,000 people had been killed[21] and the white Haitians were practically eradicated, excluding a select group of whites who were given amnesty. The spared consisted of the Polish ex-soldiers who were given Haitian citizenship; a small group of German colonists invited to the north-west region before the revolution; and a group of medical doctors and professionals.[12] Reportedly, also people with connections to officers in the Haitian army were spared, as well as the women who agreed to marry non-white men.[21]

Dessalines did not try to hide the massacre from the world. In an official proclamation of 8 April 1804, he stated, "We have given these true cannibals war for war, crime for crime, outrage for outrage. Yes, I have saved my country, I have avenged America."[12] He referred to the massacre as an act of national authority. Dessalines regarded the elimination of the white Haitians an act of political necessity, as they were regarded as a threat to the peace between the black and the free people of color. It was also regarded as a necessary act of vengeance.[21] Dessalines' secretary Boisrond-Tonnerre stated, "For our declaration of independence, we should have the skin of a white man for parchment, his skull for an inkwell, his blood for ink, and a bayonet for a pen!"[26]

Uhm...sounds like a genocide to me?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

Genocide is the intentional action to destroy a people—usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group—in whole or in part. A term coined by Raphael Lemkin in his 1944 book Axis Rule in Occupied Europe,[1][2] the hybrid word genocide is a combination of the Greek word γένος (genos, "race, people") and the Latin suffix -caedo ("act of killing").[3]

[Belize]

How long until we see Russian soldiers who brought their tanks on vacation with them in Belarus?

Putin does not want to see a populist uprising overthrowing Belarus' dictator. It might give Russians the idea they have a chance to do the same.

[Mihalik]

You are digging yourself deeper...



Uhm...sounds like a genocide to me?

Okay. Let's try this.

It was a genocide I am wrong on that. (I would still debate whether it qualifies or not, and while it was mass murder it never reached the scale of genocide).

That doesn't change the fact that I'm right about who perpetrated the killings and who was responsible and how it isn't in any way shape or farm comparable to your Holocaust analogy.

The perpetrator was Desallines and his small military cadre and not the black population as YOU (as a raging racist) are trying to frame it.

[zealo]

How long until we see Russian soldiers who brought their tanks on vacation with them in Belarus?

Putin does not want to see a populist uprising overthrowing Belarus' dictator. It might give Russians the idea they have a chance to do the same.

The opposition in Belarus aren't really anti-Russia. There's not really much of a reason to do so when what they're protesting for is more about removing a dictator than changing the country's alignment to Russia.

[Ihavewaffles]

Okay. Let's try this.

It was a genocide I am wrong on that. (I would still debate whether it qualifies or not, and while it was mass murder it never reached the scale of genocide).

That doesn't change the fact that I'm right about who perpetrated the killings and who was responsible and how it isn't in any way shape or farm comparable to your Holocaust analogy.

The perpetrator was Desallines and his small military cadre and not the black population as YOU (as a raging racist) are trying to frame it.

The massacre was due to slavery colonialism etc. not because of one man shouting angrily, and anyone showing any reluctance was obviously due to their fear of retaliation. Haiti is responsible and for your to act shocked why white people don't wants to trade with Haiti that genocides white people, is just so soo weird..do you have an agenda for your behavior? Is you screaming racism a way to deflect while you excuse genocides?..

- - - Updated - - -

The opposition in Belarus aren't really anti-Russia. There's not really much of a reason to do so when what they're protesting for is more about removing a dictator than changing the country's alignment to Russia.

Look under location, under his avatar...guy will not make serious posts...

[Mihalik]

The massacre was due to slavery colonialism etc. not because of one man shouting angrily, and anyone showing any reluctance was obviously due to their fear of retaliation. Haiti is responsible and for your to act shocked why white people don't wants to trade with Haiti that genocides white people, is just so soo weird..do you have an agenda for your behavior? Is you screaming racism a way to deflect while you excuse genocides?..

That's a massive oversimplification that ignores the ongoing power dynamics on the island and again you are shifting the blame onto the general population for something that the general population wasn't even aware was happening and did not participate in in any shape or form.

The white outrage about the massacres was rooted not in the scale or brutality of the massacres (France was importing 30 thousand slaves a year into Saint Dominique at one point, with an average mortality rate that exceeded 50% in the first two years, that's just counting those who survived the Middle Passage) nor in it targeting whites (Poles and merchants of other nationalities present were not targeted), the outrage was rooted in blacks killing whites. That was the unacceptable component.

And yes I have an agenda, my agenda is to point out your racism. Again, I never excused the massacres, I was the one who pointed it out in the first place and pointed out how it was a key element in the failure of the Haitian Revolution in a sense. But the whole "blame Haiti, it brought it onto itself by killing the whites" is a bullshit narrative that has been used by every single racist since 1804 to subject that country and those people to constant never ending abuse.

[Belize]

The opposition in Belarus aren't really anti-Russia. There's not really much of a reason to do so when what they're protesting for is more about removing a dictator than changing the country's alignment to Russia.

It's not about being anti-russia. It's simply the idea that people could overthrow their government -period-. Putin is known to be particularly worried about protests, because he was on the frontline when mass protests overthrew the USSR of old.

[zealo]

It's not about being anti-russia. It's simply the idea that people could overthrow their government -period-. Putin is known to be particularly worried about protests, because he was on the frontline when mass protests overthrew the USSR of old.

Russia didn't do anything when Armenia staged similar protests in 2018.

They have no reason to act when the opposition are not seeking to disentangle the country from Russia to begin with.

[Ihavewaffles]

That's a massive oversimplification that ignores the ongoing power dynamics on the island and again you are shifting the blame onto the general population for something that the general population wasn't even aware was happening and did not participate in in any shape or form.

The white outrage about the massacres was rooted not in the scale or brutality of the massacres (France was importing 30 thousand slaves a year into Saint Dominique at one point, with an average mortality rate that exceeded 50% in the first two years, that's just counting those who survived the Middle Passage) nor in it targeting whites (Poles and merchants of other nationalities present were not targeted), the outrage was rooted in blacks killing whites. That was the unacceptable component.

And yes I have an agenda, my agenda is to point out your racism. Again, I never excused the massacres, I was the one who pointed it out in the first place and pointed out how it was a key element in the failure of the Haitian Revolution in a sense. But the whole "blame Haiti, it brought it onto itself by killing the whites" is a bullshit narrative that has been used by every single racist since 1804 to subject that country and those people to constant never ending abuse.

Yah, sure, lol...it was not me who brought Haiti into Belarus conversation, I wouldn't have bothered to reply about Haiti if you not so obviously tried to make light of the genocide n be outraged that people at the time were outraged about it. Your behavior stood out, you can't go and start pointing fingers n scream racism in reply, that's just sad..

For you to deflect with what France did doesn't change that it is still a natural reaction, it's based on self preservation to be objecting when someone kills your own kind, regardless of the circumstances.

And, for fucks sake, most of us forget Haiti even exists, to think there some secret racist club out to get Haiti..omg, yeah you got some imagination..

This is enough off-topic, lets get back to the topic at hand, blame Russia for everything wrong in Belarus.

[Mihalik]

Yah, sure, lol...it was not me who brought Haiti into Belarus conversation, I wouldn't have bothered to reply about Haiti if you not so obviously tried to make light of the genocide n be outraged that people at the time were outraged about it. Your behavior stood out, you can't go and start pointing fingers n scream racism in reply, that's just sad..

For you to deflect with what France did doesn't change that it is still a natural reaction, it's based on self preservation to be objecting when someone kills your own kind, regardless of the circumstances.

And, for fucks sake, most of us forget Haiti even exists, to think there some secret racist club out to get Haiti..omg, yeah you got some imagination..

This is enough off-topic, lets get back to the topic at hand, blame Russia for everything wrong in Belarus.

We were discussing the merits of revolutions and how not all revolutions improve people's standard of living or can cause long term damage. I pointed to Haiti as an example of a revolution that produced wildly mixed results. You turned it into faux outrage about the massacres and about kinds and racism and other stereotypical racist shit. Now take a hike to your "eastern European nationalist" countryside.

[Adam Jensen]

Several western countries are headed into the same direction. It's as if 1930's and 1940's wasn't a good enough show of why not.

"Guys, lets vote for the right wing demagogue! Surely that'll work in our favor!!!"

[Mihalik]

"Guys, lets vote for the right wing demagogue! Surely that'll work in our favor!!!"

I think Umberto Ecco's definition of fascism is one of the most useful tools for understanding how we slide into fascism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defini...sm#Umberto_Eco

It explains a lot about why and how people start voting for Reich Wingers.

[Felya]

Eurasia has had semi-nomad influences since antiquity, back to Sarmatians etc. long before tatars n mongols came along, so shush with your ignorance

What did I say that was wrong? I’m explicitly talking about Kiev being returned during Peter the Great, as part of the explanation. As in... a shit ton happened since antiquity...

[zealo]

Talking about whether Russia is European or Asian is pointless discussion. In actuality the split is three ways:
European
Formerly Soviet
Asian.

Russia is not European. Soviet Union saw to that.

Do you also consider the Baltic states to not be European?

Just curious.

[Arrashi]

The last European Cleptocracy.

Not for long. Poland is more than willing to take its place.

[Mihalik]

Talking about whether Russia is European or Asian is pointless discussion. In actuality the split is three ways:
European
Formerly Soviet
Asian.

I don't quite think a 50 year Soviet stint would erase 800+ years of Latin influence in Eastern/Central and North Eastern Europe.

Again. The Latin/Greek divide is a more useful understanding of European differences. Tho both are ultimately European.