What's new in Shadowlands?

[gushDH]

It's such a weird feeling, I have mained Hunter for so long, and the only reason that I am still thinking of playing it is because it is convenient.

It is convenient to just send your pet as BM and kill a bunch of mobs while moving around. But it is boring.

SV is a no-go, it is 100% dead to 99.9% of hunters. It does not matter how it plays, the Hunter's "logo" is literally a bow. Hunter is a ranged spec and it was a massive mistake to change that.

Lastly, MM plays ok-ish but nothing exciting.


I wish they would try to change it. I don't know how, but it would be so nice to be happy to play my Hunter again.

Maybe I should reroll, but then I lose that convenience that my Hunter has brought for many years. It's weird.

[Exorzon]

It's such a weird feeling, I have mained Hunter for so long, and the only reason that I am still thinking of playing it is because it is convenient.

It is convenient to just send your pet as BM and kill a bunch of mobs while moving around. But it is boring.

SV is a no-go, it is 100% dead to 99.9% of hunters. It does not matter how it plays, the Hunter's "logo" is literally a bow. Hunter is a ranged spec and it was a massive mistake to change that.

Lastly, MM plays ok-ish but nothing exciting.


I wish they would try to change it. I don't know how, but it would be so nice to be happy to play my Hunter again.

Maybe I should reroll, but then I lose that convenience that my Hunter has brought for many years. It's weird.

I feel like they don't necessarily need to change much as I've noticed I'm not alone in feeling like they should remove Rapid Fire and make Chimera Shot baseline and hard hitting like it used to, that alone would make my interest of the Hunter class alongside the Covenants skyrocket yet again, I too am looking to feel happy about playing Hunter again as in the past after feeling stuck playing BM for the majority of BfA which is fine don't get me wrong but after a full expansion of the same old spec it does feel a bit boring eventually

[Kaver]

For marksman what do they need? Maybe for their main cast (aimed shot) to be usable while moving.

Why should everything for hunters be castable while moving? It’s fun to have to plan your position and time your casts based on mechanics. Not everything about hunters needs to be extremely simple. I would be okay with a talent that made aim shot castable while moving but then it should come at a cost of reduced performance. In my opinion.

[Tanis]

It's such a weird feeling, I have mained Hunter for so long, and the only reason that I am still thinking of playing it is because it is convenient.

It is convenient to just send your pet as BM and kill a bunch of mobs while moving around. But it is boring.

SV is a no-go, it is 100% dead to 99.9% of hunters. It does not matter how it plays, the Hunter's "logo" is literally a bow. Hunter is a ranged spec and it was a massive mistake to change that.

Lastly, MM plays ok-ish but nothing exciting.


I wish they would try to change it. I don't know how, but it would be so nice to be happy to play my Hunter again.

Maybe I should reroll, but then I lose that convenience that my Hunter has brought for many years. It's weird.

^100% agree with this.

[Kallisto]

Why should everything for hunters be castable while moving? It’s fun to have to plan your position and time your casts based on mechanics. Not everything about hunters needs to be extremely simple. I would be okay with a talent that made aim shot castable while moving but then it should come at a cost of reduced performance. In my opinion.

Because it makes no sense to stick to a spot while I am pulling back on a bow when I have functioning legs. Also before legion aimed shot was mobile and it was actually functional.

Having cast on aimed shot then hoping the boss doesn't suddenly decide to use you for their mechanic is bad design. Especially when aimed is the only spell that hits harder than a 2 year old waiving a feather duster.

[Kaver]

Because it makes no sense to stick to a spot while I am pulling back on a bow when I have functioning legs. Also before legion aimed shot was mobile and it was actually functional.

Having cast on aimed shot then hoping the boss doesn't suddenly decide to use you for their mechanic is bad design. Especially when aimed is the only spell that hits harder than a 2 year old waiving a feather duster.

Cast time works completely fine for other classes. Yes of course it sucks if you’re targeted by mechanics while casting but that’s a part of the game. Everything should not be a dance on roses. And it’s not like its having a 1 minute cast time. Have to interrupt a cast is not the end of world. It feels bad but that’s okay. When you fail or get unlucky then it should feel bad. It gets boring if you’re never met with any adversity. Winning is not funny if you cant lose.

Your arguments are basically based on laziness or enforcing real life logic on a fantasy game. That’s dumb. “That’s how it was before” or “I can’t be bothered” or “I have legs so why cant I move”. Guess what, warlocks and mages do also have legs. So why cant a mage move while casting fireball? Because it gets boring for a ranged class to always be able to move. And it’s also unfair for one class to be able to do everything. The downsides of melee classes are downtime and having to avoid mobs cleave abilities while the downsides of ranged classes are cast time and less mobility. That’s the natural tradeoffs that most classes accept that they have to deal with. Except hunters. They cry. You don’t see Rogues complain that they don’t have 40 yards range on all their attacks.

[Duskpanther]

Cast time works completely fine for other classes. Yes of course it sucks if you’re targeted by mechanics while casting but that’s a part of the game. Everything should not be a dance on roses. And it’s not like its having a 1 minute cast time. Have to interrupt a cast is not the end of world. It feels bad but that’s okay. When you fail or get unlucky then it should feel bad. It gets boring if you’re never met with any adversity. Winning is not funny if you cant lose.

Your arguments are basically based on laziness or enforcing real life logic on a fantasy game. That’s dumb. “That’s how it was before” or “I can’t be bothered” or “I have legs so why cant I move”. Guess what, warlocks and mages do also have legs. So why cant a mage move while casting fireball? Because it gets boring for a ranged class to always be able to move. And it’s also unfair for one class to be able to do everything. The downsides of melee classes are downtime and having to avoid mobs cleave abilities while the downsides of ranged classes are cast time and less mobility. That’s the natural tradeoffs that most classes accept that they have to deal with. Except hunters. They cry. You don’t see Rogues complain that they don’t have 40 yards range on all their attacks.

I agree with you. It is just one spell for MM to be cast standing still and it should remain this way. Though numbers are clear. The vast majority are playing BM hunter, and this morning I read on icyveins current status of dps in beta. 1st destro lock, 2nd bm hunter. MM was at the bottom. I understand this is beta, but knowing blizzard since 16 years, they won't fix that as it should, and again in Shadowlands, BM will shine over MM. I think this is quite sad. Additionally to have a still-standing castable spell doesnt mean it has to be 2,2 sec. cast time, blizzard can just reduce the cast time to lets say 1,8 secs also because the nr of AS do not depend on lower cast time but on CD and focus cost especially now that they increased the focus cost. Said short, every body plays BM because it is super-easy to maximize DPS 'cause you do not lose dps by being compelled to stand still (not to mention pvp ). A smart move from blizzard (smart blizzard in same sentence, strange uh ?) should be to decrease BM dps and increase MM dps output. You want it fun and easy with BM ? Then renounce to be the highest dps.

[Agallion]

I wonder if it would be interesting to make it so you can carry aim shot while moving, but while moving your cast is slower.


Pick your percentage but call it 50% for example.

A 3 second cast time while standing still, 4.5 seconds while moving.

Adjust the percentage as you please.


Alternatively. You can cast while moving.. Same cast time but you are snared while moving at 50%

[Schizoide]

Cast time works completely fine for other classes.

Very simple. They don't have any choice, hunters do.

BM QoL is simply unparalleled. Full movement at range is something no other spec in the game can do. It feels amazing.

[Nythiz]

Hunters are in a fine place in BFA imo, what do they need?

Would be nice if more than 1 of our specs was actually viable in end game content.

MM has been bad, outside of a very short period in Battle of Dazar'alor where there was a semi-viable meme spec.
It's playstyle works with the corruption and azerite traits; but they are arguable band-aids trying to hold up a spec that isn't all that great at it's core.
This doesn't seem to change, and even though they addressed some talents (good) they also nerfed the focus generation / increased the spending which slows down the spec significantly. The last thing MM needed was a slower pace.

SV has only performed decent in PvP.
Outside of it it's also virtually dead. And even though it has more potential than MM, it's a basically a spec unwanted by the vast majority of hunters.

BM isn't in the clear either. The talent system is a bit of a mess, as several talents have been must haves from day 1 BfA until the last day.
And the flow of the spec is also highly dependent on secondary stats, where BM with low crit and low haste becomes a bit of a snoozefest.
Granted BM got some decent talent changes that hopefully give some options / preference calls.

[Schizoide]

MM baseline focus generation was actually increased by 67% in 9.0. It's 5/sec now, same as survival.

[Brocksley]

I’ve always wondered why is it that the spec that has a required pet to do their damage for them is also 100% mobile while attacking, and the spec that doesn’t need a pet has to also remain stationary to shoot. How is that not completely backwards?

[Schizoide]

Not really a meaningful distinction from a gameplay perspective. Pet is just more passive damage than autoshot which MM shares. MM rooting comes from the sniper spec fantasy. From that gameplay perspective I agree it sucks, and a lot more people would play marks if it could move like BM.

[Pigglix]

one thing that is hard for me to grasp is why as a master sharpshooter is so hard for blizz to make aimed shot castable while moving or why ppl want to increase the cast or make the ability do less dmg to justify if we can ever shot this while moving.

another thing that is hard for me to grasp is, why is totally fine to hit 3+ targets, but 2 targets were impossible on bfa and still impossible if you dont pick chimera shot. Like, what?

It dosent make sense in my head, if blizz really want to keep it up, why not make like the splitting ice(?) talent for mages? a passive thing that make your precise shots and aimed shots hit 2 targets.

As for the rotation, yeah, the base focus regen was increased, but still, not enough, the spec feels slower even with that. I think it feels slower when MM was "fixed" in 8.1.

Just revert the increased focus imo and bake the in the rhytm azerite trait instead of making your next AiS 30% faster. And ofc, make the haste proc when you cast RF and not when the channeling is done.

[Nythiz]

MM baseline focus generation was actually increased by 67% in 9.0. It's 5/sec now, same as survival.

True but that was to compensate for the loss of BfA's version of Master Marksman (15 focus saved every ~7.5 seconds = 2/sec).

All the additional changes:
- AiS/AS/MS costing 5 focus more each
- Rapid Fire regening 30% less focus (granted that this comes with a good change in a reduced channel time)
- Losing certain azerite traits to help regen (e.g. Focused Fire)
- Losing a ton of regen haste from gear and traits (e.g. corruptions and ITR)
In the end it means the rotation slows down a lot, and we'll be steady shotting a lot more. Not neccessarily bad, since we're at the start of a new expansion and a lot of SL stuff will bring that back up to more comfortable levels.

But MM will be a different beast for a while.

[Daemos daemonium]

I’ve always wondered why is it that the spec that has a required pet to do their damage for them is also 100% mobile while attacking, and the spec that doesn’t need a pet has to also remain stationary to shoot. How is that not completely backwards?

Makes fine thematic sense, lining up the perfect shot would be incredibly hard or impossible while moving while telling a pet to get some one can be easily down on the move.

The only real problem with the theme is you can do every other shot on the move which doesn’t really make sense unless your just firing and hoping to hit.

[Serb]

Very simple. They don't have any choice, hunters do.

BM QoL is simply unparalleled. Full movement at range is something no other spec in the game can do. It feels amazing.

Yup , and that's something that made us special compared to other ranged classes.