View Poll Results: What do you think?

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  • Change it! Remove the 5% damage debuff so it isn't required in PvE but is cool for PvP.

    136 38.86%
  • Change it! Make it deal damage so it feels better, the same treatment as Blade Flurry.

    11 3.14%
  • Change it! Give it a raid debuff of some kind.

    21 6.00%
  • Change it! Take it off the GCD.

    104 29.71%
  • Change it! In some other way, I'll post my idea below.

    17 4.86%
  • Keep it! (I play Classic exclusively.)

    3 0.86%
  • Keep it! (I play both Live and Classic.)

    19 5.43%
  • Keep it! (I do not play Classic.)

    23 6.57%
  • I don't care one way or the other!

    16 4.57%
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  1. #21
    Change it to either remove the damage buff, being applied with arcane shot or whatever like back in the day or remove the GCD, the last option would still suck though

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord City Pop's Avatar
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    Maybe they should make it apply to all targets within x range of the primary target, similar to how curse of elements worked back in MoP or Cata.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    That's implying that every spec does 100% the same damage on a ST fight.


    This has literally never happened
    That's their goal. It's just really difficult to hit. When they evaluate Hunter damage on primary targets in the QA cycle, they will assume the 5% debuff is in place. Otherwise they'd be balancing Hunters 5% higher than every other class to start, which is obviously not what they want.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2020-08-11 at 04:51 PM.

  4. #24
    If it's off GCD without a CD it'd just be macro'd into every ability. I think it's best the ability just be passively applied through certain abilities if it's going to exist in a permanent debuff state at all (which also helps bring up players who don't macro anything). I think in a passive debuff state it's best if it interact with the kit in some way, rather than just being a flat damage increase. But I think a minor/major CD (30sec/1m/2m) is probably a better spot for it if it is just a damage debuff. I think they'll be moving away from raid-wide debuffs in the future. I can't see raid-wide debuffs lasting going forward as reception to raid-wide debuffs and raid-wide buffs returning has been largely negative (granted, probably a result of how powerful they were, if they were more minor it probably wouldn't have been much of an issue). If the ability is just a way to track targets it becomes virtually useless for most content and just becomes button bloat, but admittedly this a very inoffensive iteration. I don't think it's much of a debate that on GCD and spamable while necessary for the damage debuff now feels terrible to have to reapply, and in that interaction it adds unnecessary ramp-up and slows burst when small things need to die asap, with pre-cast on pulls basically being the only fun interaction with it if any. If it was only usable before you were in combat with a target, maybe that's one space for it but it loses a lot of flavor when new spawns make their way into fights and it can't be used that way as new adds commonly will be in combat with everything automatically (same reason rogues can't re-stealth for those mobs, in addition to still being detected by boss even if they're clear off in another dimension out of sight but that's not here nor there really). Honestly I'd probably rather see it removed entirely as I've never liked it. But if it has to stay the less cumbersome and annoying it is, the better imo.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    That's their goal. It's just really difficult to hit. When they evaluate Hunter damage on primary targets in the QA cycle, they will assume the 5% debuff is in place. Otherwise they'd be balancing Hunters 5% higher than every other class to start, which is obviously not what they want.
    The hunter does 100% damage

    HM will allow it to do 105% to one target at a time

    It's not that complicated

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    With this mindset surely you're mad at everything


    You aren't doing 5% less without it
    You're doing 5% more with it

    They will not balance around you having HM on every target, because you can't.
    Except the other way to look at it is this: the max damage any character can do is by using all the tools given to him/her in the ideal way before any outside sources, such as pots/flasks/buffs/etc.
    This means that HM is what allows you to do deal the ideal maximum amount of damage. Without it, then you are dealing less damage to everything else without it. In a way, you could argue that it still applies maximum damage available to the class regardless of whether ST, cleave, or AoE. The issue is that as that is one way to look at it, the other is that it’s still a nerf to your maximum allowed damage to anything without HM on it. This even gets furthered by the fact that there is a Covenant ability that basically puts HM on everything when used. If we had this ability baseline on a 30 sec to a 1 minute CD usage, people probably wouldn’t mind so much. As it stands though, any cleave or AoE fight means we lose damage on anything that isn’t our primary target.
    That design feels bad. When something feels bad, regardless of how minuscule, then people will criticize it and point that out.

  7. #27
    Boring and annoying, I'd rather it worked more like the rogue ability vendetta, maybe add a talent to make it work this way so more people can be happy.
    Bwonsamdi says: Bring me de head of de Horde's warchief, and I be forgettin' all about ya father's bargain.

    Bwonsamdi for warchief!

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    The hunter does 100% damage

    HM will allow it to do 105% to one target at a time

    It's not that complicated
    That isn't complicated at all! You're just obviously wrong, when comparing to other classes.

  9. #29
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Making it only used for utility or an automatically applied raid debuff like monks would both be a win

  10. #30
    I don't mind it right now in practice, but taking off the GCD would be great. I just macro'd it to pet attack.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    That isn't complicated at all! You're just obviously wrong, when comparing to other classes.
    Okay - how am I wrong? Do you have the live numbers right now? Can I borrow your time machine?

  12. #32
    Does Blizzard really think the average hunter player can actually think and make a judgement call on when applying HM in an aoe pack is a gain vs loss?

  13. #33
    That isn't really a problem. If it's an AE pack and there's no "big" mob in it, don't use HM at all.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    That's implying that every spec does 100% the same damage on a ST fight.


    This has literally never happened
    Just to butt into the argument here, the issue is not really whether using it or not is the extra DPS that will make you a mythic raider, the issue is that the ability doesnt flow well. It is fine against bosses where you apply it once and forget about it, but it feels bad when you should reapply it several times during a fight for maximum efficiency, and while only the very best bleeding edge raiders could possibly get even close to the numbers that are simmed it still causes an unecessary level of stress on the player when they are constantly reminded that they could be doing 5% higher ST damage.

    It is also an issue when your pre-fight rotation takes 3-5 seconds to perform if you want ot be optimal, when the easier option is just to not have it give 5% extra damage, at least baseline. Then you can make the extra damage either a talent choice or PvP only.

  15. #35
    @Sondrelk: Both of those things you talk about are indeed issues, but class balance is also pertinent here, because it means you can't just ignore it and not even keybind the ability. If you don't use Hunter's Mark you will deal 5% less damage to primary targets than the devs intended.

    That's why people saying "HM makes you do 105% your normal damage!" are extremely wrong. HM makes you do 100% your normal damage to primary targets.

  16. #36
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    The hunter does 100% damage

    HM will allow it to do 105% to one target at a time

    It's not that complicated
    Wouldn't the devs count HM for the overall damage of the Hunter? i mean... that's the point of adding certain abilities.

    Either way, not a fan of it for how it disrupt the combat, though i think it may not be as big of a deal for all specs, but for others it may be more of a blunder.

  17. #37
    Elemental Lord Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    I feel like the Mark is basically something that the Hunter will focus on. Meaning it should only be visible to the Hunter who places them and since it isn't really a "Mark" it should be off the GCD.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Wouldn't the devs count HM for the overall damage of the Hunter? i mean... that's the point of adding certain abilities.
    Yes, of course they will.

  19. #39
    I'm not a fan of hunter's mark, but I've always used it exclusively out of combat since it doesn't generate threat (back in WoTLK). The GCD makes it annoying to switch, but if you place it out of combat and don't use it again you're mostly fine.

    Of course that's not always optimal, since a 5% buff is probably stronger than your filler spells, but spending those HM GCDs out of combat and forgetting about it during combat is a pretty natural way to use it in my opinion.

  20. #40
    That works fine on bosses with no high-health adds, but that doesn't describe a lot of encounters in the game.

    I don't think HM has ever generated threat, even back in vanilla before they changed CC to not pull out of combat.

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