View Poll Results: What do you think?

Voters
349. You may not vote on this poll
  • Change it! Remove the 5% damage debuff so it isn't required in PvE but is cool for PvP.

    136 38.97%
  • Change it! Make it deal damage so it feels better, the same treatment as Blade Flurry.

    11 3.15%
  • Change it! Give it a raid debuff of some kind.

    21 6.02%
  • Change it! Take it off the GCD.

    103 29.51%
  • Change it! In some other way, I'll post my idea below.

    17 4.87%
  • Keep it! (I play Classic exclusively.)

    3 0.86%
  • Keep it! (I play both Live and Classic.)

    19 5.44%
  • Keep it! (I do not play Classic.)

    23 6.59%
  • I don't care one way or the other!

    16 4.58%
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  1. #81
    If the effect would be just graphical, it would be flavor. Most would be ok with that.
    If the effect was just to keep opponents out of stealth, it would be a pvp ability. That would also be ok for most.
    If it stays as it is, it is an ability like rune of power - you have to cast it, but it does no damage on its own - and certainly NOT flavor. Especially so since then you'd do 100% damage to the marked target and about 95% damage to everything that isn't marked.

  2. #82
    I love it, one of the reasons I'm going back to hunter for SL.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by blankfaced View Post
    I love that it's back. It's one button click every now and then, it's not going to destroy your enjoyment. And it returns some of the fun flavor that's been lost in favor of the "RAID OR DIE!" "NO GCD's!" "LOOK AT MAH DEEPS!" mindset that's taken over.
    oh wow so fun to put HM on every mob you switch to. i realy love doing less damage on every mob but the one i marked.

    but doesnt surprise me with their garbage design the past few years

  4. #84
    Nothing to do with design over the past few years, HM is from the Shadowlands unpruning effort, something completely new for WoW. Blizzard saw Classic's success and thought maybe that was why WoW subscriptions have fallen over the years, quality of life was too high. So they had a mandate to make live more like Classic.

    I mean, they're wrong about that, obviously. Population dropped because it's a 16 year old game and that's what happens. But that's the thought process.

  5. #85
    In thinking about it. It isnt just that having to recast Hunter's Mark on every new mob is simply annoying, I would also say that making it integral to the core rotation lessens it. Without the 5% damage component it would actually be a niche ability that has value in PvP and some rare PvE situations. Utility abilities are rarely made better by including a DPS element.

  6. #86
    Bloodsail Admiral Pigglix's Avatar
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    Or they could just, idk, leave hunter's mark alone and make your multi shot/whatever is called the aoe from surv that is not bombs, spread the hunter's mark up to 5 targets, baseline, like, rank 3 multi shot/aoe surv now spread the hunter's mark from the original target to 4 targets. Problem solved.

    Or if that gets too op because of "muh stealth, wtf blizz", remove the stealth/permanent duration component of hunter's mark from the spreaded hunter's mark, only leaving that function to the "original" hunter's mark.

    Or hell, if that gets too confusing, rename the spreaded hunter's mark to marked shots, w/e, but applying the 5% dmg aura to whatever is hit.
    Last edited by Pigglix; 2020-08-24 at 06:44 AM.

  7. #87
    Sure, and they have had abilities passively apply HM in past expansions and it worked fine, but then it wouldn't be a full unprune. They want it to work just like Classic.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Sure, and they have had abilities passively apply HM in past expansions and it worked fine, but then it wouldn't be a full unprune. They want it to work just like Classic.
    Classic has a lot FEWER keys than retail.

    It's not really an unpruning if they just give back abilities on top of already existing other abilities that have been added over the years. This is what I find really stupid. "But, bro, we had this and that for years". YES! And in time, this and that were replaced with other abilities, and now we have way more abilities than we had in the beginning, so to add back that which was removed on top of what we have now is not an unpruning, it's just CLUTTER!

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Hunter's Mark is unpruned in Shadowlands as below.

    It is on the GCD, meaning it cannot be transparently macroed into other abilities. In its current beta form Hunters will need to spend a GCD on every primary target throughout the expansion and all Hunter single-target abilities will be balanced assuming this 5% debuff is applied.

    Code:
    Hunter's Mark
    60 yd range
    Instant
    Requires Hunter
    Requires level 7
    Apply Hunter's Mark to the target, increasing all damage you deal to the marked 
    target by 5%. The target can always be seen and tracked by the Hunter.
    
    Only one Hunter's Mark can be applied at a time.

    How do you feel about this?
    Does this apply to Survival? If not I could care less as I only play Melee DPS.

  10. #90
    It's not really about the number of buttons, certainly not in the core priority anyway. They have a mandate to unprune and that's exactly what they did.

    They only made huge mistakes on two classes, Shaman and Hunter, with Healing Stream Totem, Windfury Totem, and Hunter's Mark. Those should be removed or substantially changed. The rest are nonsensical traps for inexperienced players likely to drive degraded emergent gameplay (giving frost mages fireball, BM arcane shot, etc), utility/flavor, or great like Kill Shot.

    @schwank05: Yes, survival too.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    Does this apply to Survival? If not I could care less as I only play Melee DPS.
    Yes SV hunters also have Hunter's Mark. It is a bit amusing marking the target far away only to engage them in melee combat. As I don't think HM is going anywhere this expansion, I hope blizz introduces new fun glyphs for Hunters mark, maybe a skull and crossbones a "Kill this" text sign. If we are to endure HM for an expansion then at least lets make the hunter's mark cosmetically interesting.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Bisque View Post
    Yes SV hunters also have Hunter's Mark. It is a bit amusing marking the target far away only to engage them in melee combat. As I don't think HM is going anywhere this expansion, I hope blizz introduces new fun glyphs for Hunters mark, maybe a skull and crossbones a "Kill this" text sign. If we are to endure HM for an expansion then at least lets make the hunter's mark cosmetically interesting.
    So what is the issue is it not a DPS buff? why is everyone all pissed about a damage Boost?

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    So what is the issue is it not a DPS buff? why is everyone all pissed about a damage Boost?
    1. It does nothing other being a small and stupid damage buff. It doesn't synergize with anything.
    2. One extra button because why the fuck not? The game can still be played with only two hands and 10 fingers.
    3. It's stupid as hell to use in aoe situations because you have to keep applying it to your main target when you switch.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    1. It does nothing other being a small and stupid damage buff. It doesn't synergize with anything.
    2. One extra button because why the fuck not? The game can still be played with only two hands and 10 fingers.
    3. It's stupid as hell to use in aoe situations because you have to keep applying it to your main target when you switch.
    I guess I don't see an issue I love Survival, but it could use another button honestly.

  15. #95
    Whats the problem? I dont see it.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    So what is the issue is it not a DPS buff? why is everyone all pissed about a damage Boost?
    Because most likely hunter damage will be balanced around you keeping up Hunter's mark all the time or you will be forever doing 5% less dps then you can do.

    It is another button to press but it is not very interesting or interactive, feels more like "button for the sake of pressing a button".

    I believe that it can't be macored with other abilties to automatically apply the hunter's mark, so you will have to apply each and every time you want to do maximum dps.


    As for pissed, idk.... I would say I am more "meh" with HM returning.

  17. #97
    Yep, you will need to use Hunter's Mark on every non-AE pull this entire expansion. It's a button that I, and many hunters, don't find fun to press because it does nothing but allow you to do your full damage. It doesn't do any damage itself or have any synergies. It's just busywork, adding a GCD to every single target you attack for the next 2 years.

    Right, it's on the GCD so it cannot be macroed into other abilities.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    Whats the problem? I dont see it.
    I'm with you on this one I don't get where this is a major issue I mean there are far worse things that have been done to classes. I mean look how much they Fucked DK's up after Wrath.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I'm with you on this one I don't get where this is a major issue I mean there are far worse things that have been done to classes. I mean look how much they Fucked DK's up after Wrath.

    • Hunters Mark is calculated in general DPS balance of Hunters making it mandatory cast.
    • Its on 1s GCD.
    • This means that in AOE fights you will have to mark tanky-long living mob to make it somewhat optimal, avoiding marking squishy mobs as you wont get most of Hunters Mark.
    • This also means that you are wasting damage if you primary attack ANY other mob in AoE fights that is not your marked target.
      This will do 105% damage to marked mob and 100% of your cleave/AoE to other mobs in the fight.
      So, if you mark tanky mob, but actually primary attack priority mob you will do 100% of your damage to priority mob and +5% of your cleave/AoE damage to marked mob, again making it somewhat sub-optimal.
    • Further, by the looks of it, in order to min-max, you will have to cast Hunters Mark on EVERY new mob that you attack in AoE, meaning more GCDs spent on recasting Hunters Mark.

    Theres probably more, these are the reasons/issues just from the top of my mind.
    It wont be as big issue in raids as bosses are where most of things count, but this makes hunters.. really clunky in Mythic+ where primary focus is pack pulling and burning them down.
    So, while Fury, or better yet Windwalker which also have 5% DPS buff applying passively, or most of other melees (Feral excluded) dont have any mandatory upkeep buffs, hunters have it. And its on GCD.

    As main Survival hunter with competitive progress in last 2 expansions.. Honestly, I really dont see ANY reasons to bring Survival in place of BM in any content sadly. Were literally down to being Meme spec.
    In addition, Hunters Mark further complicates already clunky spec. Survival got 300% Focus regen nerf on Beta, so currently you are more focused on focus regen than anything else. Between Mongoose Fury uptime and burn window, having to re-cast Hunters Mark with a GCD on ANY new target that we attack means that you will have less time to cast Mongoose Bite inside burn window or Kill Command as generator. Not to mention Bomb weaving if you opt out for Wildfire infusion, which will, probably be go-to talent due to Pheromone Bombs and more Kill Command resets.

    TL;DR - The issue here is that Hunters Mark is calculated in Hunters DPS balancing making it mandatory cast, but it is on GCD and it marks only 1 target forcing us to either mark tank mobs but attack primary target making it somewhat sub-optimal or re-cast it on every new mob in cleave/AoE, spending GCD on it.
    Last edited by Gurg; 2020-08-24 at 08:19 PM.

  20. #100
    In regards to the nerfed SV hunter focus regen, I swore I read somewhere that the slow focus regen was a bug and would be fixed in the next patch-if that is the case I hope that is true.

    Back to HM, I remember in one expansion (Panda one maybe...) I think it was arcane shot or one of one of the other shots that all 3 specs shared, that automatically applied HM, I wonder why blizz didn't go that route when they brought HM back.

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