View Poll Results: What do you think?

Voters
350. You may not vote on this poll
  • Change it! Remove the 5% damage debuff so it isn't required in PvE but is cool for PvP.

    136 38.86%
  • Change it! Make it deal damage so it feels better, the same treatment as Blade Flurry.

    11 3.14%
  • Change it! Give it a raid debuff of some kind.

    21 6.00%
  • Change it! Take it off the GCD.

    104 29.71%
  • Change it! In some other way, I'll post my idea below.

    17 4.86%
  • Keep it! (I play Classic exclusively.)

    3 0.86%
  • Keep it! (I play both Live and Classic.)

    19 5.43%
  • Keep it! (I do not play Classic.)

    23 6.57%
  • I don't care one way or the other!

    16 4.57%
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  1. #101
    Survival regen is supposed to be exactly the same as in 8.0, 5/sec. Marks is buffed from 3/s to 5/s, and BM remains 10/s.

    It generally won't be optimal to use HM in AE, unless there's a high-health guy in the pull that you'll primary-target while AEing the rest.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurg View Post
    • Hunters Mark is calculated in general DPS balance of Hunters making it mandatory cast.
    • Its on 1s GCD.
    • This means that in AOE fights you will have to mark tanky-long living mob to make it somewhat optimal, avoiding marking squishy mobs as you wont get most of Hunters Mark.
    • This also means that you are wasting damage if you primary attack ANY other mob in AoE fights that is not your marked target.
      This will do 105% damage to marked mob and 100% of your cleave/AoE to other mobs in the fight.
      So, if you mark tanky mob, but actually primary attack priority mob you will do 100% of your damage to priority mob and +5% of your cleave/AoE damage to marked mob, again making it somewhat sub-optimal.
    • Further, by the looks of it, in order to min-max, you will have to cast Hunters Mark on EVERY new mob that you attack in AoE, meaning more GCDs spent on recasting Hunters Mark.

    Theres probably more, these are the reasons/issues just from the top of my mind.
    It wont be as big issue in raids as bosses are where most of things count, but this makes hunters.. really clunky in Mythic+ where primary focus is pack pulling and burning them down.
    So, while Fury, or better yet Windwalker which also have 5% DPS buff applying passively, or most of other melees (Feral excluded) dont have any mandatory upkeep buffs, hunters have it. And its on GCD.

    As main Survival hunter with competitive progress in last 2 expansions.. Honestly, I really dont see ANY reasons to bring Survival in place of BM in any content sadly. Were literally down to being Meme spec.
    In addition, Hunters Mark further complicates already clunky spec. Survival got 300% Focus regen nerf on Beta, so currently you are more focused on focus regen than anything else. Between Mongoose Fury uptime and burn window, having to re-cast Hunters Mark with a GCD on ANY new target that we attack means that you will have less time to cast Mongoose Bite inside burn window or Kill Command as generator. Not to mention Bomb weaving if you opt out for Wildfire infusion, which will, probably be go-to talent due to Pheromone Bombs and more Kill Command resets.

    TL;DR - The issue here is that Hunters Mark is calculated in Hunters DPS balancing making it mandatory cast, but it is on GCD and it marks only 1 target forcing us to either mark tank mobs but attack primary target making it somewhat sub-optimal or re-cast it on every new mob in cleave/AoE, spending GCD on it.
    I guess I have never been in a situation where I was benched for another class/ spec, as it stands now most guilds I have run with have enough trouble getting 15 people to show up for Normal/ Heroic let alone 20 for Mythic raiding so I am not worried Ill play the classes I enjoy rather than worry about some absurd Meta set by the top 1% of players.

  3. #103
    I would suggest focusing more on whether you enjoy the Hunter's Mark gameplay, and why you do (or don't) enjoy it, than comparisons with other classes. Expect to see lots of balance changes as we get closer to release, the numbers will change, but the gameplay won't.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    I would suggest focusing more on whether you enjoy the Hunter's Mark gameplay, and why you do (or don't) enjoy it, than comparisons with other classes. Expect to see lots of balance changes as we get closer to release, the numbers will change, but the gameplay won't.
    Personally I think the problem with Hunter's mark is that no matter how true it is that 99% of players won't be perfectly optimal 5% damage is still a significant chunk of damage on single-target, meaning that unless you want ot drag up the spellbook before each encounter you will feel obligated ot keep this ability on your hotbar at all times. And while a single ability isnt that much there are already so many niche abilities a player should be expected to keep on their hotbar already.

  5. #105
    Hunter's Mark is a redundancy that is definitely not needed in PvE. Just drop the damage buff from it. Make it useful in PvP only by simply preventing stealth. If it absolutely must exist in PvE (which is a nonsensical argument because it has no basis - nothing is a "must" in this game), then just make it to be passively applied from hunter's single target attacks. As it is now, this ability has little to no mathematical basis of existance on anything that will not live past 20 globals. It is a worse iteration of the Curse of Elements from Vanilla warlocks, because it affects hunters only.
    There are several hunter abilities I really dislike in Shadowlands and think of them being counter productive. Hunter's mark is a proud #2 on that list. The only thing worse is Soulforge Embers (SE) ability. And it is almost certain that they will balance AoE around SE (as it is one of the few uncapped AoE abilities in the game), making hunters much less effective during general tank movement, mythic+ affixes avoidance and different mob mechanics. That is on top of it being extremely clunky to use, costing 2 gcd to set up and being basically a worse iteration of a Flame Strike from Vanilla mages.

  6. #106
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    It's such an absolutely dull and uninteresting ability to use. I'd prefer they made it irrelevant to PVE.
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  7. #107
    Latest change:

    Hunter's Mark
    60 yd range
    Instant 20 sec cooldown
    Requires Hunter
    Requires level 7
    Apply Hunter's Mark to the target, increasing all damage you deal to the marked target by 5%. The target can always be seen and tracked by the Hunter.

    Only one Hunter's Mark can be applied at a time.

    The cooldown of Hunter's Mark is reset if the target dies.

    Amazingly, they managed to make it worse. And on the very same day they said this:

    We’ve heard clear feedback that incurring a global cooldown to do nothing but enhance subsequent button presses is unsatisfying, and we agree. While our goal remains making it so that when abilities are on the global cooldown, they feel compelling as standalone actions, in the meantime we want to avoid hindering smooth combat rotations.
    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...n-gcd/630189/1
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2020-09-03 at 12:19 AM.

  8. #108
    I really can't fathom why Blizzard thought that adding a 20sec cooldown to hunter's mark would be a good fix for the problems people had with it.

  9. #109
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    If there gonna scale hunters to do 100% damage without the make I don’t see a problem with it as it’s just a bonus that you can swap every 20 sec or on death.

  10. #110
    Just take it off GCD.
    Scheduled weekly maintenance caught me by surprise.

  11. #111
    why is "just remove it" not a selection

    Also the take it off gcd is just stupid, if its off gcd it will be macro'd to every ability and at that point ya may as well just remove it
    Last edited by Aigilas; 2020-09-03 at 05:19 AM.

  12. #112
    They actually went and made it worse, unbelieveable

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    If there gonna scale hunters to do 100% damage without the make I don’t see a problem with it as it’s just a bonus that you can swap every 20 sec or on death.
    Blizzard overall balancing is so bad anyway. Right now 95 % hunter damage is more than 100 % rogue damage. Especially in dungeons.

  14. #114
    Just get rid of it. It is a mere annoying busy work on the gcd for target switching and if you take it off the gcd/no cd you're just macro'ing it to your ST abilities. At the very least remove the damage component and have it provide tracking/negate stealth so it isn't a pita but has a practical use.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by turboether View Post
    Just get rid of it. It is a mere annoying busy work on the gcd for target switching and if you take it off the gcd/no cd you're just macro'ing it to your ST abilities. At the very least remove the damage component and have it provide tracking/negate stealth so it isn't a pita but has a practical use.
    This is quite literally all they have to do but seem to have ignored and looking at the feedback forum this has been mentioned so many times

  16. #116
    Turning it into a passive (whatever you're currently attacking is marked) seems ideal. Not sure why that common suggestion isn't on the poll?

  17. #117
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Blizzard overall balancing is so bad anyway. Right now 95 % hunter damage is more than 100 % rogue damage. Especially in dungeons.
    After the tubing passes obviously going off of beta numbers yet to be tuned is pointless.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    If there gonna scale hunters to do 100% damage without the make I don’t see a problem with it as it’s just a bonus that you can swap every 20 sec or on death.
    That (obviously) is not how it works. They aren't going to tune hunters to do 5% more damage than everybody else with HM.

    The balance goal is for everybody to do the same damage. Of course they never actually achieve that, but that's the goal. Hunter single-target damage will be tuned assuming the HM debuff is active.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2020-09-03 at 04:07 PM.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    After the tubing passes obviously going off of beta numbers yet to be tuned is pointless.
    I was more referring to live BFA. Currently some classes are doing 20-30% more dps than others. Of course we have corruption right now but with all the covenant systems we will like see something similar in SL. Blizzard are not going to be able to balance the game very well with all these layers they are adding. My point is, there are a lot of people mad because they will only do 95% dps to targets without HM but we don’t know how much dps those 95% is. With Blizzard shitty balance, 95% hunter damage might be more than 100% damage of other classes. Especially in AOE situations because they don’t have to balance beast cleave etc based on HM.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I was more referring to live BFA. Currently some classes are doing 20-30% more dps than others. Of course we have corruption right now but with all the covenant systems we will like see something similar in SL. Blizzard are not going to be able to balance the game very well with all these layers they are adding. My point is, there are a lot of people mad because they will only do 95% dps to targets without HM but we don’t know how much dps those 95% is. With Blizzard shitty balance, 95% hunter damage might be more than 100% damage of other classes. Especially in AOE situations because they don’t have to balance beast cleave etc based on HM.
    5% ST damage is still not insignificant though. Sure, it probably won't mean much in the grand scheme if we assume bad balancing will be a thing, but it would still be more reassuring if Blizzard removed the damage component from HM and balanced around it. If AoE damage is the concern then they could just nerf Multi-shot.

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