Poll: Shadowlands Hunter's Mark

[Razion]

If it's off GCD without a CD it'd just be macro'd into every ability. I think it's best the ability just be passively applied through certain abilities if it's going to exist in a permanent debuff state at all (which also helps bring up players who don't macro anything). I think in a passive debuff state it's best if it interact with the kit in some way, rather than just being a flat damage increase. But I think a minor/major CD (30sec/1m/2m) is probably a better spot for it if it is just a damage debuff. I think they'll be moving away from raid-wide debuffs in the future. I can't see raid-wide debuffs lasting going forward as reception to raid-wide debuffs and raid-wide buffs returning has been largely negative (granted, probably a result of how powerful they were, if they were more minor it probably wouldn't have been much of an issue). If the ability is just a way to track targets it becomes virtually useless for most content and just becomes button bloat, but admittedly this a very inoffensive iteration. I don't think it's much of a debate that on GCD and spamable while necessary for the damage debuff now feels terrible to have to reapply, and in that interaction it adds unnecessary ramp-up and slows burst when small things need to die asap, with pre-cast on pulls basically being the only fun interaction with it if any. If it was only usable before you were in combat with a target, maybe that's one space for it but it loses a lot of flavor when new spawns make their way into fights and it can't be used that way as new adds commonly will be in combat with everything automatically (same reason rogues can't re-stealth for those mobs, in addition to still being detected by boss even if they're clear off in another dimension out of sight but that's not here nor there really). Honestly I'd probably rather see it removed entirely as I've never liked it. But if it has to stay the less cumbersome and annoying it is, the better imo.

[Eapoe]

With this mindset surely you're mad at everything


You aren't doing 5% less without it
You're doing 5% more with it

They will not balance around you having HM on every target, because you can't.

Except the other way to look at it is this: the max damage any character can do is by using all the tools given to him/her in the ideal way before any outside sources, such as pots/flasks/buffs/etc.
This means that HM is what allows you to do deal the ideal maximum amount of damage. Without it, then you are dealing less damage to everything else without it. In a way, you could argue that it still applies maximum damage available to the class regardless of whether ST, cleave, or AoE. The issue is that as that is one way to look at it, the other is that it’s still a nerf to your maximum allowed damage to anything without HM on it. This even gets furthered by the fact that there is a Covenant ability that basically puts HM on everything when used. If we had this ability baseline on a 30 sec to a 1 minute CD usage, people probably wouldn’t mind so much. As it stands though, any cleave or AoE fight means we lose damage on anything that isn’t our primary target.
That design feels bad. When something feels bad, regardless of how minuscule, then people will criticize it and point that out.

[Exeris]

Boring and annoying, I'd rather it worked more like the rogue ability vendetta, maybe add a talent to make it work this way so more people can be happy.

[Schizoide]

The hunter does 100% damage

HM will allow it to do 105% to one target at a time

It's not that complicated

That isn't complicated at all! You're just obviously wrong, when comparing to other classes.

[docterfreeze]

Making it only used for utility or an automatically applied raid debuff like monks would both be a win

[MabusGaming]

I don't mind it right now in practice, but taking off the GCD would be great. I just macro'd it to pet attack.

[Argorwal]

Does Blizzard really think the average hunter player can actually think and make a judgement call on when applying HM in an aoe pack is a gain vs loss?

[Schizoide]

That isn't really a problem. If it's an AE pack and there's no "big" mob in it, don't use HM at all.

[Sondrelk]

That's implying that every spec does 100% the same damage on a ST fight.


This has literally never happened

Just to butt into the argument here, the issue is not really whether using it or not is the extra DPS that will make you a mythic raider, the issue is that the ability doesnt flow well. It is fine against bosses where you apply it once and forget about it, but it feels bad when you should reapply it several times during a fight for maximum efficiency, and while only the very best bleeding edge raiders could possibly get even close to the numbers that are simmed it still causes an unecessary level of stress on the player when they are constantly reminded that they could be doing 5% higher ST damage.

It is also an issue when your pre-fight rotation takes 3-5 seconds to perform if you want ot be optimal, when the easier option is just to not have it give 5% extra damage, at least baseline. Then you can make the extra damage either a talent choice or PvP only.

[Schizoide]

@Sondrelk: Both of those things you talk about are indeed issues, but class balance is also pertinent here, because it means you can't just ignore it and not even keybind the ability. If you don't use Hunter's Mark you will deal 5% less damage to primary targets than the devs intended.

That's why people saying "HM makes you do 105% your normal damage!" are extremely wrong. HM makes you do 100% your normal damage to primary targets.

[Maxilian]

The hunter does 100% damage

HM will allow it to do 105% to one target at a time

It's not that complicated

Wouldn't the devs count HM for the overall damage of the Hunter? i mean... that's the point of adding certain abilities.

Either way, not a fan of it for how it disrupt the combat, though i think it may not be as big of a deal for all specs, but for others it may be more of a blunder.

[Spl4sh3r]

I feel like the Mark is basically something that the Hunter will focus on. Meaning it should only be visible to the Hunter who places them and since it isn't really a "Mark" it should be off the GCD.

[Schizoide]

Wouldn't the devs count HM for the overall damage of the Hunter? i mean... that's the point of adding certain abilities.

Yes, of course they will.

[Khallid]

I'm not a fan of hunter's mark, but I've always used it exclusively out of combat since it doesn't generate threat (back in WoTLK). The GCD makes it annoying to switch, but if you place it out of combat and don't use it again you're mostly fine.

Of course that's not always optimal, since a 5% buff is probably stronger than your filler spells, but spending those HM GCDs out of combat and forgetting about it during combat is a pretty natural way to use it in my opinion.

[Schizoide]

That works fine on bosses with no high-health adds, but that doesn't describe a lot of encounters in the game.

I don't think HM has ever generated threat, even back in vanilla before they changed CC to not pull out of combat.

[Lightning-]

They absolutely will balance Hunters against having that 5% damage against every primary target. Basically, everything other than AE and low-health adds. If they didn't do that, Hunters would straight-up do 5% more single-target damage than every other class.

That's what I think too. Wouldn't make sense otherwise.

[Schizoide]

Again, put it on bosses, and prio adds every trash pack if you really are offended by having a use a gcd every mob to do 5% more damage.

Yes, that's what I mean when I say "primary targets". Everything other than AE packs and low-health adds. I really do try to pick my words carefully, this ain't my first time arguing on the internet!

[Doffen]

Would be nice if it gave some party/raidwide buffs. Or change it mechanically so it will apply it to a group, let's say cap it to main target + 4 adds. So 5 targets in line with the other AoE cap damage abilities in SL.

[Schizoide]

Let's say we're fighting 5 mobs

No, on AE groups HM isn't worth using at all. You only use it when you have a "primary target". For example, some pulls have big high-health mobs surrounded by small ones, in that case you would HM the big one only then run your normal AE priority against the group.

This isn't anything new, HM worked this way for many, many years. Older players know how to use it properly. Many of us just don't like it.

[Fetacheese]

I'm not a big fan. It's really only something I notice when it's not efficient to recast it before something dies. The niche uses in pvp are kind of cool but I think it's unnecessary bloat for PVE, particularly in dungeon trash. I really don't like the idea of it on survival because it's such a fast-paced spec.