In TBC a top tier guild rerolled and cleared all content in 1 week, who was it?

[TriHard]

So I am pretty sure TBC will eventually happen because there is such a huge demand for it considering it has arena, some of the best and most iconic raids ever made, etc
But I wonder if they'll release M'uru as he was, cuz I remember a fuck ton of guilds got stuck on M'uru, I would like to see how fast players could clear him, I imagine it won't take people too long considering Classic was just ez mode

[ClassicPeon]

TBC is the expansion i played the least because i had military duty at that time.

Did it have world buffs like vanilla?

I've stopped playing vanilla because the demands my guild set for earning dkp outside raids where ridiculous.

I want to play tbc when it comes, but i want to have fun playing it. Not be forced to grind several hours every single day

[Woobels]

Actually thinking about it TBC's difficulty would largely depend on what state they release it in, classic is easy but the patch it's on made it even more facerolley, same thing could happen with TBC but I doubt Blizzard is that dumb.

[Hinastorm]

Actually thinking about it TBC's difficulty would largely depend on what state they release it in, classic is easy but the patch it's on made it even more facerolley, same thing could happen with TBC but I doubt Blizzard is that dumb.

I'm sure they are aware, but they were really only interested in putting in the least amount of effort possible into classic for some easy cash.

It's still going to be the same exact company a year from now. We'll likely get last patch TBC, everything will be WAY too easy, and i'll be back to raid logging for months at a time. Sigh.

[Segus1992]

Actually thinking about it TBC's difficulty would largely depend on what state they release it in, classic is easy but the patch it's on made it even more facerolley, same thing could happen with TBC but I doubt Blizzard is that dumb.

It's not like Blizzard wasn't aware that that was the case with Classic as well. They don't want to split up player power patches, because it's extra work and they see all of that as improving the game anyway.

It's more likely to release on Sunwell talents than on 2.0 talents.

[KaPe]

That doesn't really count since Muru wasn't nerfed until WOTLK pre-patch, at which point all TBC content was nerfed anyway.

Mu'ru was nerfed twice. First one doesn't really count, since it was "obvious nerf", with removal of laser pushback. Second was 10% hitpoint nerf in both phases... which was far less than it seemed at first, since you still needed all other things in place to benefit from it. Repeating add cycles 4 times instead of 5 (or whatever it was) helped, but it still needed a ton of wipes to get to that point anyway. And Entropius itself was "easy"... ish.

[Relapses]

I'm sure they are aware, but they were really only interested in putting in the least amount of effort possible into classic for some easy cash.

It's still going to be the same exact company a year from now. We'll likely get last patch TBC, everything will be WAY too easy, and i'll be back to raid logging for months at a time. Sigh.

I think you are grossly mistaken as to the intention of Classic for Blizzard. It's not intended to replace retail WoW. It's intended to be a supplemental experience that you can log into to relive past experiences. Blizzard isn't trying to emulate the entire expansions many issues (months of tiny shoulders for Orcs?), they just want to deliver as close to an authentic experience for players as possible without overwhelming them with things to do and without making the experience unnecessarily punishing. You can disagree on whether this approach is the best one to take but it's definitely not being done without a very clear purpose and intention.

[OFiveNine]

It's not going to be difficult and if you think regardless of the patch it will be you're joking. The same applies to classic Naxxramas. Simply put the calibur of players vs the calibur of players when the content was relevant is insane. The active playerbase in each game will continue to mow down the content at a faster pace than method or limit does in current content (and even that takes few weeks at most when it's super difficult)

[Low Hanging Fruit]

The bigger problem they are going to face with TBC content is the roll out. It won't be as phase rich as Classic was. The first patch of TBC you have Kara, Gruul, and Mag for T4 AND T5 available right away as you get attunements done. That is over half the game at release. No lifers will burn the game to the ground fast. All the PVP is in right away so that cannot be a phase in. Pretty much it will just be a launch. Then about halfway through the T6 patch. Then at the end the Sunwell patch. Granted you are talking about multi-instance raid tiers so it won't be as bad as BWL burn, but it's going to be some long slogs.

Next is the mega server problem. Sure, some classic realms could probably roll forward and it be somewhat sane like it was originally. But I would say about half the servers at least in NA are populated to the point of.. insanity.. to shove down into the TBC zones. So layering would have to be in full effect almost the entire time or they are going to have to chop up the population in some fashion. If anything this will be their arguments to why it has to be fresh start because I just don't know how that is going to work.

Game difficulty will not be a problem though. It is going to be easy. If you are playing classic or even TBC for some sort of challenge than you are looking in the wrong place. All its problems are solved. Every inch of it has been min-maxed and flipped over and min-maxed again. The state of the game will probably be what it was at the end so much easier then it was at release. Not that hard to see here. I would say it will take some of the later Wrath fights and probably Cata encounters to really start challenging players again. Mostly because that is when difficulty sliders start to come into play and thus.. content becomes less about getting everyone in the same place and people being more divided up to where they want to/should be difficulty wise.

[RohanV]

I was in Staysafe's stream earlier and he seems to think that guilds will not be able to steamroll BC the way Classic was steamrolled. It made me remember that a high end guild back in TBC (I think NIhilum??) rerolled factions and cleared all top end content IN ONE WEEK near the end of the expansion in TBC. I feel that if the talents are how they were in the last few patches of Black Temple or Sunwell that the content will get easily cleared immediately.

Which guild was it? I tried to look it up but cannot find any details about it but definitely remember reading here on MMO Champ that a top end guild did the above feat.

It was Juggernaut of Doomhammer. But the reason was that they were having trouble recruiting since they were on a PvE server. At that time, you could not transfer from PvE to PvP, so no high-end players would transfer to them for fear of getting stuck if things didn't work out. They had Kil'jaeden down to 30% before they gave up and rerolled on Mal'ganis.

It was probably the crucial turning point for transfers, as Blizzard started allowing PvE to PvP transfers a few months later for Wrath of the Lich King.

[Queen of Hamsters]

This time, I say again, THIS TIME, its going to take weeks!

For sure! I'm willing to bet no insignificant amount of rounded rodents on it!!

[thrill]

Raids up to sunwell will be a joke, but I'm curious how different the arena meta will be in TBC classic vs old TBC. Players were incredibly bad in s1/s2 compared to today.

[Hinastorm]

I think you are grossly mistaken as to the intention of Classic for Blizzard. It's not intended to replace retail WoW. It's intended to be a supplemental experience that you can log into to relive past experiences. Blizzard isn't trying to emulate the entire expansions many issues (months of tiny shoulders for Orcs?), they just want to deliver as close to an authentic experience for players as possible without overwhelming them with things to do and without making the experience unnecessarily punishing. You can disagree on whether this approach is the best one to take but it's definitely not being done without a very clear purpose and intention.

You're the one mistaking their intentions. It's literally what I said, drive as many subs possible for the least amount of effort. Nothing more or less.

- - - Updated - - -

The bigger problem they are going to face with TBC content is the roll out. It won't be as phase rich as Classic was. The first patch of TBC you have Kara, Gruul, and Mag for T4 AND T5 available right away as you get attunements done. That is over half the game at release. No lifers will burn the game to the ground fast. All the PVP is in right away so that cannot be a phase in. Pretty much it will just be a launch. Then about halfway through the T6 patch. Then at the end the Sunwell patch. Granted you are talking about multi-instance raid tiers so it won't be as bad as BWL burn, but it's going to be some long slogs.

Next is the mega server problem. Sure, some classic realms could probably roll forward and it be somewhat sane like it was originally. But I would say about half the servers at least in NA are populated to the point of.. insanity.. to shove down into the TBC zones. So layering would have to be in full effect almost the entire time or they are going to have to chop up the population in some fashion. If anything this will be their arguments to why it has to be fresh start because I just don't know how that is going to work.

Game difficulty will not be a problem though. It is going to be easy. If you are playing classic or even TBC for some sort of challenge than you are looking in the wrong place. All its problems are solved. Every inch of it has been min-maxed and flipped over and min-maxed again. The state of the game will probably be what it was at the end so much easier then it was at release. Not that hard to see here. I would say it will take some of the later Wrath fights and probably Cata encounters to really start challenging players again. Mostly because that is when difficulty sliders start to come into play and thus.. content becomes less about getting everyone in the same place and people being more divided up to where they want to/should be difficulty wise.

I wouldn't put it past them to time gate t5 in some way. Players will whine, but they don't care, they only care about milking this as long as possible with as little effort as possible.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I wouldn't put it past them to time gate t5 in some way. Players will whine, but they don't care, they only care about milking this as long as possible with as little effort as possible.

I actually wouldn't be all that surprised either. Honestly it would be a good move for health of the game in my opinion. Of course it wasn't something on original release was much of a big deal. Only the real hardcores figured it out, had the numbers to push it fast enough, and were good enough to beat a lot of encounters that at the time were damn near broken. These days that wouldn't be the case. The whole thing would be mapped out to do as little of T4 as possible to get to T5 to be "efficient". You are right people would whine like a mother fucker.. but like you also said they won't care if it allows them to drag things out in as easy of an effort as possible.

[Malefic]

https://www.engadget.com/2007-10-29-...MiJBeoT6bKo5dS


This is the only thing I remember, I remember the guild basically being full T3 still when they had cleared everything. It's not a week timeline though so not sure if it's the same news you're referring to.

[Reliek]

So we are at the point, the same point where people are now saying, "TBC is gonna be hard". One of the few times I wont actually lurk on this. These threads are absolutely delicious. In TBC I was a warlock, the big and bad, the top class for dps and I was doing 300-500 dps and still managed to fully clear all content in TBC. Was I carried? Absolutely I was 12. Will the content still be a cake walk? Yes, it might take a bit more coordination then classic Vanilla but will still be easier then most think. Besides it might do the classic Andys some good to have to put some progress into a boss, the salt and drama from the progress will be great content on twitch if it happens. Personally I cant wait to experience it.

Granted Blizzard will change a few things around or we might be graced with rogues solo'ing Gruul. There are a few videos that have predicted when TBC classic comes out locks will be able to hit around 2k+ dps(I was poop) around the later tiers and with the level of coordination, knowledge, ptr/private servers to practice on I wouldn't be surprised to see another 1 week stomp by the top guilds and retail mythic raiders coming over with weakauras to experience the content while making it easier.

Dps ranking for some classes here going over gear from Vanilla, pre-bis and TBC raiding. Here is the video /watch?v=1JOcra5PZv4 cant post the full link cause im a mmo champ chump, I need to post more. Here is a bonus for something that I remember in TBC that made me hate hunters, mainly from jealousy /watch?v=lnoOnmW-0Bs

[Fynzie]

In TBC I was a warlock, the big and bad, the top class for dps and I was doing 300-500 dps and still managed to fully clear all content in TBC

Yeah sure people would have let a 500 dps warlock in the raid during Sunwell where Brutallus alone required 1800dps per dps on average to be killed, not even speaking of M'uru.

[Tojara]

300-500 DPS, were you playing classic?

It doesn't even make sense that you could do that little DPS unless you were wearing greens in Sunwell, or you were part of make a wish foundation and some guild allowed you to tag along. There were literal memes about warlocks near the end of TBC where guilds looked to scoop up any warlock who was geared as long as they could apply curse, press shadow bolt, and then life tap. Warlocks with really good gear did anywhere between 2600-3200 DPS on bosses like Brutallus, and were among the best DPS classes in the game along with hunters and really geared rogues. Not like it was hard, but hunters could do top DPS with a one button macro, and warlocks literally just pressed shadow bolt.

The thing that makes TBC 'harder' than classic is that you just can't outright ignore mechanics because of overpowered consumables and world buff tours prior to a raid. This isn't me saying that TBC is mechanically insane, just that classic purist (even in great guilds) will actually have to do a few mechanics correctly, instead of standing in shit and overpowering things because the entire raid has every buff imaginable. Yeah some of it's going to be easier knowing what compositions work and how powerful drum rotations are (something a lot of people started figuring out late in TBC), but that's still no where near the amount of power you passively get in classic by farming shit outside of a raid.

TBC will get destroyed by motivated guilds that already know how to do the content. It will all die in one reset, but will actually have the potential to cause a few wipes here and there, as opposed to what classic content becomes as soon as it's released. I won't sit here and claim TBC will be hard, but you would be foolish to believe that the completion rates of raids is going to mirror what we have in Classic. For a lot guilds, especially "Dad" guilds that might not have experienced the content before, or don't necessarily believe in min/maxing things to death, there might actually be a few weeks of progression in TBC, as opposed to maybe a couple raid nights at best like they experience in Classic.

The one thing that's good for "Dad" guilds is that unlike Classic, the playing field is much more equal across the board. You get a flask (which are way cheaper), food and potions. There's no running around getting world buffs and sitting offline until your raid day, to preserve them, and wiping isn't a huge cost to every member of your raid. Playing the game with full consumables and world buffs in classic is something around 50% performance increase (some higher, some a bit lower), which allows a lot of mechanics to just flat out be ignored because of the extreme amount of DPS and health that your raid members have. Wiping is brutal however and suddenly you lose something like 30% of your output (I believe this was examined on some youtube videos) when you lose your world buffs, and suddenly, you're basically playing a different game. Even if your erase world buffs from the equation, not showing up with full consumables in TBC is no where near the performance loss from failing to do so in Classic.

TLDR; Raiding super easy still, more guilds will have to progress, lots of guilds who flourish in classic will actually have to do mechanics, and raiding moves from being preparation based to learning the mechanics a bit more.

[Jabakaga]

TBC is the expansion i played the least because i had military duty at that time.

Did it have world buffs like vanilla?

I've stopped playing vanilla because the demands my guild set for earning dkp outside raids where ridiculous.

I want to play tbc when it comes, but i want to have fun playing it. Not be forced to grind several hours every single day

No I don't think there were world buffs in TBC you just need to train profession since they were very good through out all the expansion. Heroic dungeons and kara are easily puggable from the start even if 5man heroic is tuned up like it was from the beginning. Players are just so much better now.

[Belloc]

Magtheridon Pre-nerf, Nightbane, Netherspite, Prince, Hydross, Vashj, Kael'thas, ROS, Illidari Council, Illidan, Twin Eredar, Muru, KJ.... But I mean difficult is relative, none of these will cause issues for an experienced and prepared raiding guild... It's more like which ones will pugs have issues with, lots of pugs on private servers had trouble with nightbane and would routinely skip Netherspite for example, a decent guild would just kill them and probably on the first try if their gear is somewhat decent.

Magtheridon post-nerf, for that matter. Coordination fights requiring more than a third of the raid to do something at a specific time are always difficult without practice. Pugs, especially, will not enjoy Magtheridon, even if it's an easy fight otherwise.

Netherspite is similar in that it has responsibilities for the raid, but it's also such an easy concept that I can't remember ever seeing a group have trouble with it. Now, pre-nerf Shade of Aran, on the other hand -- bring 2 warlocks or hope that you're not carrying any deadweight.

Prince... eh. Even with the movement, it's not a particularly bad fight. This one was more of a number's game, imo. If your healers are capable, you'll probably be fine outside of seriously bad play.

Hydross, with the appropriate resist gear, was fine. I was expecting a tough fight, but my guild had no issue with it.


Pug killers: Magtheridon, Gruul (shatter), Leotheras, Vashj, High Astromancer Solarian, Kael'thas, maybe Kazrogal if they have low DPS, definitely Archimonde, probably everything after Shade in BT, and Sunwell is completely out of the question for anything other than solid groups.

Granted, some of this might be mitigated by having ultra-high DPS specs/configurations discovered that weren't used during TBC. I mean, current Classic numbers weren't standard back in Vanilla, were they?