Windwalker Monk Discussion: Where Does the Spec Stand in Shadowlands Beta [Sloot vod]

[Jackstraw]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkt2rVdYseE

It's two hours, but worth the watch/ listen.

I'll digest the whole discussion in bullets later to maybe try and start some discussions around the state of Windwalkers. There's issues, but there's possible solutions yet.

[Beingbob]

Essentially WW iteration since Legion has been 1 step forward 1 step backwards every time. The class is pretty fun to play at a basic level, but has grown stale outside of hit-and-miss burrowed powers, and long term players grow frustrated by the constantly buggy SEF. The consistent history of being undertuned and poorly scaling while BrM/MW provide the same utility has left WW with a poor community perception.

Also, while they don't mention it, the monks = pandas perception probably also explains part of why WW isn't a very popular spec. In addition I wish they'd have brought up Energizing Elixir - it was a solid part of the rotation in Legion, but getting put on the GCD has completely killed the fun of the talent. Being such a weak cooldown, it makes zero sense for it to be on the GCD - it's not something that allows you to "pump" in PvP since WW is limited in it's ST damage by cooldowns, not resources.

Tbh, I don't think Blizzard will be able to bring the spec in a good direction any time soon, partly because the monk community itself isn't particularly agreed on where the spec should og... SEF is a buggy mess and doesn't even feel good now that SCK stacks are capped since BfA, but replacing it with Tigereye Brew wouldn't be something a large part of the monk community would enjoy... Tigereye Brew just isn't a very fun cooldown, it's just a damage steroid requiring a little bit of management, and it lacks the visual flair of SEF.

Bringing SEF back to the pre-Legion version would be a huge asset in terms of giving a new niche... but managing SEF back then was a little clunky and iirc most people didn't enjoy it that much...

Serenity is controversial - a lot of people don't like it and never did, including Babylonius; I loved it when it gave cooldown reductions that didn't disappear after it expires but I've seen nobody else agree with me on that.

The new Xuen baseline is probably something a lot of people will enjoy... but ultimately it's just another pet summon like half the classes in the game have as a cooldown these days (Gargoyle, Infernal/Darkglare/Demonic Tyrant, Fire Elemental, Shadow Fiend...), and besides the Gale Burst effect it's very boring.

[Angrie]

Hit combo should be deleted and a new mastery given. Hit combo should be changed to the OLD SEF - where the clones are permanent until their target dies - It is the "AoE talent" row - it should be a choice. A new mastery should scale with our Xuen and base abilities - while also being fun. (just an idea),

Pressure Points - every 3 seconds hit a pressure point for (MASTERY)% of total damage done to target after your last pressure point strike, resetting after every pressure point strike.

Damage wise, it is essentially the current mastery but more fun, since you can see it in dps meters and damage numbers. It could allow Xuen to be useful, and make resource pooling more of a benefit instead of a problem. While also making mastery a stat that is desirable - even if scaling isn't the best since it's FUN to dump 5 chi, messing up your combo strikes is not.

I think they shouldn't make WDP baseline because i feel like something NEW should be in place of the useless Spiritual Focus - for example: Five Finger Death Punch - single target nuke that cost 5 chi (5 fingers-get it?) and will consume 0-100% energy to increase damage, that replaces Touch of Death. Basically a high burst, high cost, ability that can double as a way to dump resources - since Blizzard insists on giving us endless resources. Also brings synergy to other parts of the kit: See Energizing Elixir or Ascension.

Serenity doesn't need to change if we remove hit combo and combo strikes revamp'd because it's all about causing maximum damage. So we have a ST, AoE and CD in our highest tier.

I do not think we need a Damage increase CD like all the rest of the classes. Our damage CD should be just high bursting abilities (see above) or if you want a CD go Serenity.

[Wuusah]

Imo WW needs a complete rework. It just doesn't make sense. Their mastery makes absolutely no sense without Hit Combo because you can't use the big dmg abilities twice in a row anyway due to them all having a cooldown.
The builder-spender playstyle of Chi and Energy doesn't feel nice because you're limited by cooldowns anyway. You use your big dick skills and then you're locked in this boring cycle of using tiger palm -> blackout kick -> tiger palm -> blackout kick, until your cooldowns are ready again. Who enjoys that?

The long cooldowns are the biggest issue of WW, imo. Back in Legion we had another big cooldown ability with Strike of the Windlord and had Serenity that cut those cooldowns in half if used during Serenity and that felt really nice. Even without Serenity, just having Windlord made it feel better because you don't have to wait as long until the next big hitter ability is ready again if you have more big hitter abilities.

BfA WW monk felt like Legion WW monk that has to decide between some of the powers, when you had them all before. And Shadowlands kinda feels the same. You get some new tools with Covenants but those are their own thing and don't really change much about your core class gameplay. Conduits are strong but just empower abilities without much interactivity between them. And you are limited to one legendary, so you're going to have to choose one power.

[Hightotemz]

8.3 WW was the worst spec overall in Ny'alotha, so the good news is it can't get worse. At current tuning we are 7th from the bottom, so bit of an improvement on that front going into SL if things remain as they are.

My suggestion for those that play Enhance shaman or WW is to have another spec as a main alt that can fill in the raid spots where your spec doesn't shine.

I am personally going WW or ENH and then a pure range dps (Mage, lock or hunter) as main alt as they will always have a raid spot.