My sentiment on Covenants and why i might get dissapointed

[Bodakane]

I would like to discuss the ''new'' covenant system thats coming soon to us in the new Shadowlands expansion.
As a player i like to play my character to the best of my knowledge and i enjoy getting as strong as possible.

While reading guides about the covenants for mages i have come to the conclusion that the only viable option for PvE are the ''Kyrians''.
I made this conclusion from reading a mage class post for shadowlands from ''Preheat'' a fire mage player:
Iam not allowed to link yet its called: ''Fire Mage State on Shadowlands Alpha - Spell Changes, Covenant Abilities, and Combustion''

Now let me state why iam worried and what i would like to know: Iam worried i won't have a choice in choosing which covenant i will be able to play. While i was looking forward to play maldraxxus i will choose Kyrian if this is the only viable PvE option, because i enjoy optimalisation. It seems iam at a crossroads. How do you guys feel about this and the balance around covenant?

Ps: i will only have time for 1 character (my main) in shadowlands, people with alts have more options in experiencing all the covenants.

If you pick X covenant, because you want to be as strong as possible, then you made a choice. You made a choice based on what is most important to you. What you're really bitching about is that blizzard should somehow make it where a choosing a covenant meets every reason you think is important. That's not possible since we are talking millions of players. The only possible solution to your gripe is for there to be no choice other than cosmetic.

[Gaidax]

If someone wants to be Kyrian in PVE, Necrolord in PVP, what exactly is your beef with their choices? Are they FOTM-ing? What kind of proof do you have? Maybe they like the spells in that covenant in that content and not the other.
It's not your business if someone tryhards either n>? You can also be someone who likes to be carried, being lazy and incompetent is also a choice you can personally make (generally speaking ofc), but most people like to do stuff to the best of their knowledge.

Then said someone will end up having to make a choice where they want more edge.

In the end the definition of FOTM is running after top of the top pick. Beef? I don't really give a damn, it's their choice, just as usual the choice will, ultimately, be done withing game rules limits. If the game does not allow it - tough luck there, bud.

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You answered your own question.

The people on alpha will do all the homework for you, and post their answers for you to copy.

All you gotta do is wait like a good little drone and the best option will be mapped out for you. Then you can copy/paste and be the #1 meta covenant.

Pretty much.

Let's not pretend there will be some emotional struggle there. It's more of a business as usual.

[Rayzen17]

Then said someone will end up having to make a choice where they want more edge.

In the end the definition of FOTM is running after top of the top pick. Beef? I don't really give a damn, it's their choice, just as usual the choice will, ultimately, be done withing game rules limits. If the game does not allow it - tough luck there, bud.

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Pretty much.

Let's not pretend there will be some emotional struggle there. It's more of a business as usual.

Then you'd have no issue with Blizzard unlocking the covenant abilities/soulbinds from the covenants then?

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If you pick X covenant, because you want to be as strong as possible, then you made a choice. You made a choice based on what is most important to you. What you're really bitching about is that blizzard should somehow make it where a choosing a covenant meets every reason you think is important. That's not possible since we are talking millions of players. The only possible solution to your gripe is for there to be no choice other than cosmetic.

I make a choice for what content i want to do at the time. There is no end all be all Covenant to fit all. Just exactly as there is no essence/azerite gear setup to fit all right now.
And hey look, we can change essences/azerite gear as much as we want! What do you know, it is possible to change your stuff without breaking the game.

This whole Covenant locking business is just Blizz trying something stupid as usual. We'll see when it hits live how the players like it.. or not.

[Cyanu]

I would like to discuss the ''new'' covenant system thats coming soon to us in the new Shadowlands expansion.
As a player i like to play my character to the best of my knowledge and i enjoy getting as strong as possible.

While reading guides about the covenants for mages i have come to the conclusion that the only viable option for PvE are the ''Kyrians''.
I made this conclusion from reading a mage class post for shadowlands from ''Preheat'' a fire mage player:
Iam not allowed to link yet its called: ''Fire Mage State on Shadowlands Alpha - Spell Changes, Covenant Abilities, and Combustion''

Now let me state why iam worried and what i would like to know: Iam worried i won't have a choice in choosing which covenant i will be able to play. While i was looking forward to play maldraxxus i will choose Kyrian if this is the only viable PvE option, because i enjoy optimalisation. It seems iam at a crossroads. How do you guys feel about this and the balance around covenant?

Ps: i will only have time for 1 character (my main) in shadowlands, people with alts have more options in experiencing all the covenants.

actually for Arance Necrolods seem better (another DPS cd to pair with AP and cleaving AB) and in general the Night Fae look quite promising for M+ or AoE scenarios (burst aoe +cd reduction, if you grab the CD dependant talents there's some pretty obvious synergy here), but if all you care about is single target dummy DPS then yes, i guess Kyrians are the winners, is it so bad that in a specific scenario one convenant excels?

Venthyr is the only odd one, feels more like a pvp talent than a convenant ability tbh... for this one mages have a reason to complain i guess... but the other 3 are fine

[Topornic]

You either optimize or play what you like. I don’t see what possible solution would there be? Make every ability the same so there is no room for optimization which you supposedly like?

[Rayzen17]

You either optimize or play what you like. I don’t see what possible solution would there be? Make every ability the same so there is no room for optimization which you supposedly like?

Nah, just uncouple power meaning the covenant ability and soulbinds from the Covenants... which remain with quest hub, dailies, zone benefits like transportation, mogs, mounts, pets and whatever else they may have.

That way you can have the aesthetic you want, with the power you want.
RP players win, gameplay based players win... everybody wins.

[Gaidax]

Nah, just uncouple power meaning the covenant ability and soulbinds from the Covenants... which remain with quest hub, dailies, zone benefits like transportation, mogs, mounts, pets and whatever else they may have.

That way you can have the aesthetic you want, with the power you want.
RP players win, gameplay based players win... everybody wins.

I particularly liked the "just" part there.

There is no "just", this is how it's going to be and you better wake up and smell the reality. At the very most, what I DO expect them to do is offer a "multispec" somewhere in 9.2 to allow to switch between 2 or more covenants on the flight.

[SirBeef]

Firm believer in this sort of thing only matters to the top 1%

Just pick whichever you want, you'll be able to clear everything in the game if you're a decent player regardless of which you choose.

Plenty if the top1%era have chimed in and said it won't matter to them. So there is even a dispute amongst the top players. Which tells me Blizzard has done something good if even the top players can't agree on which is best for a particular aspect if the game.

As a prot tank, all 4 are useful in raids after some testing. Nothing stands out since they are all situational. Some are more consistent, some have advantages is some situations over others. So it really comes down to is how donyou like to play your class, what story do you want to experience, or what type of sim are you looking at.

As I've stated from the start, it really isn't going to matter.

[Rayzen17]

I particularly liked the "just" part there.

There is no "just", this is how it's going to be and you better wake up and smell the reality. At the very most, what I DO expect them to do is offer a "multispec" somewhere in 9.2 to allow to switch between 2 or more covenants on the flight.

Nice man, can you tell me some lottery numbers... since you saw the future and all that bullshit?
Maybe you should wake up from dreamland, you will and Blizz will when the system comes crashing down when it hits live.

[Gaidax]

Nice man, can you tell me some lottery numbers... since you saw the future and all that bullshit?
Maybe you should wake up from dreamland, you will and Blizz will when the system comes crashing down when it hits live.

Crashing down? As in game making your PC catch on fire?

You don't need crystal ball to see they won't make any massive changes to what we have in Beta with Covenants ~3 months before release. So yes, what you have now is how it's going to play and their x.1 will be spent on fixing the biggest dumpster fires (namely Torghast), which will inevitably pop up, while x.2 and forward is when they will start relaxing restrictions.

It's how they did things for the last 2 expansions and I don't see them changing it because some random ass doomsayers are doing their usual :monkaShake: in MMO-Cancer.

[qwerty123456]

Or Blizzard can facilitate to answer both his(and many others) needs? Increasing his enjoyment in the game.
Uncouple Covenant abilities and soulbinds from the Covenants themselves, where you have the Covenant zone and its facilities for transportation, dailies, transmogs, mounts, pets, etc.... look, it's fixed now.

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I want to pick Night Fae for raiding from 9 to 11, 3 days a week.
I want to pick Venthyr for M+ which I can do any day i want.
I want to pick Necrolord for PVP arenas, because they have bomb ass stuff for PVP and i want to do it any time i please.
I want Night Fae again with different conduits for dailies/world questing.
I want to see what the buzz is about Kirians when i have time.
This is what a normal day of wow looks like, just chose 3-4 of the stuff above, this is what a player who does multiple types of content wants from the game. So stop with the stupid saying about "clearing" the game, that's not an end all be all goal. I'm sorry that you do random quests and rp in Goldshire so you have zero clues about what people enjoy in the game.

Yes man, picking only 1 is sooo much fun. Being locked into 1 will increase the fun i have in the game.

This business about the top 1% is the biggest bullshit i have ever seen. Especially since it was proven false 12342342134 times because not only the top 1% players are complaining about Covenants being locked. You think the OP is a 1%er? You think i'm a 1%er?

You're right its not the top players complaining its the players that outplay their skill level by using what ever is op atm that are complaining. It's funny how people complain about classes losing identity and yet wanting their char to be more mobile one second and better aoe or single target the next.

[Rayzen17]

Crashing down? As in game making your PC catch on fire?

You don't need crystal ball to see they won't make any massive changes to what we have in Beta with Covenants ~3 months before release. So yes, what you have now is how it's going to play and their x.1 will be spent on fixing the biggest dumpster fires (namely Torghast), which will inevitably pop up, while x.2 and forward is when they will start relaxing restrictions.

It's how they did things for the last 2 expansions and I don't see them changing it because some random ass doomsayers are doing their usual :monkaShake: in MMO-Cancer.

You know what's nice? That you agree with me and that they are going to change the system.
Why exactly would you predict that they will change it?

Maybe because you know it will suck... well shucks, looks like you are seeing the truth.

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You're right its not the top players complaining its the players that outplay their skill level by using what ever is op atm that are complaining. It's funny how people complain about classes losing identity and yet wanting their char to be more mobile one second and better aoe or single target the next.

Because having the same build for all activities sucks?
Man, go and at least look at what you're talking about.
And this saying that people say X and then the same people say Y... that's not the same people, just thought to let you know.

[Gaidax]

You know what's nice? That you agree with me and that they are going to change the system.
Why exactly would you predict that they will change it?

Maybe because you know it will suck... well shucks, looks like you are seeing the truth.

I mean, it does not take a genius to look at what was in Legion and BFA and understand that as they go they will relax various restrictions, it happened with AP, Legiondaries, Azerite, Essences and so on.

That's how the game is setup to keep it fresh from patch to patch for less effort than trying to jump over their heads every patch with half a year cadence.

That's why I say what I say and it's also why there won't be Night Fae who will suddenly start spamming Necrolord abilities and so on, because this is too big of a change to do in some patch. That won't be happening. Multispec covenants? Now that's a good chance, eventually. I mean, that system is already there, just with "betrayals" - for them to lift that and make some UI element out of it would definitely be in scope of a Major patch.

[Amariw]

Firm believer in this sort of thing only matters to the top 1%

Just pick whichever you want, you'll be able to clear everything in the game if you're a decent player regardless of which you choose.

More like anyone doing mythic raiding or high keys (say 20+ at current standards). But even if covevant choices won't change competitive players' success or failure, what people who use this argument fail to realize is that for some, optimization is a big part of the joy of the game. Being forced to pick between your preferred story and optimization is a choice that isn't fun. Wow attracts these sort of players with its varied competitive content, and making them consistently unable to optimize their character for all but one activity is pointlessly inducing frustration, for very little rpg gain, if any.

[Rayzen17]

I mean, it does not take a genius to look at what was in Legion and BFA and understand that as they go they will relax various restrictions, it happened with AP, Legiondaries, Azerite, Essences and so on.

That's how the game is setup to keep it fresh from patch to patch for less effort than trying to jump over their heads every patch with half a year cadence.

That's why I say what I say and it's also why there won't be Night Fae who will suddenly start spamming Necrolord abilities and so on, because this is too big of a change to do in some patch. That won't be happening. Multispec covenants? Now that's a good chance, eventually. I mean, that system is already there, just with "betrayals" - for them to lift that and make some UI element out of it would definitely be in scope of a Major patch.

Well i expect it will go live like this, but i hope it won't be longer than 9.1 when they loosen the restrictions.

Also idk why you view using powers like that. I see it more like i'm working on Knight of the Ebon hold rep first, i get exalted and get some fancy trinket, which i then use while doing rep for Argent Dawn.

A covenant giving you the ability(it's just a tool) to use their powers doesn't stop like that, you won't forget how to use their powers and they wouldn't take it from you since they want you to succeed in your endeavors against your common enemy.
And the covenants aren't at war with each other anyway.

[Amariw]

They should have done this, but they won't, maybe in x.1 or x.2 when player frustration runs high enough, we can only dream.

[Redroniksre]

Well i expect it will go live like this, but i hope it won't be longer than 9.1 when they loosen the restrictions.

Also idk why you view using powers like that. I see it more like i'm working on Knight of the Ebon hold rep first, i get exalted and get some fancy trinket, which i then use while doing rep for Argent Dawn.

A covenant giving you the ability(it's just a tool) to use their powers doesn't stop like that, you won't forget how to use their powers and they wouldn't take it from you since they want you to succeed in your endeavors against your common enemy.
And the covenants aren't at war with each other anyway.

They aren't at war, but i dont think they are exactly working together anyways. If you uncouple the abilities what do you get? A new talent row. After that what are covenants? Glorified reps. So heres a solution, we make a new talent row and scrap covenants all together. Now you are happy you can get an edge in your sub 500 guild and everyone else can be miserable and bored. Yay!

[Rayzen17]

They aren't at war, but i dont think they are exactly working together anyways. If you uncouple the abilities what do you? A new talent row. After that what are covenants? Glorified reps. So heres a solution, we make a new talent row and scrap covenants all together. Now you are happy you can get an edge in your sub 500 guild and everyone else can be miserable and bored. Yay!

Your view is completely black and white i see. Let me add a little color.

The covenants offer:
Covenant ability and class ability
Soulbinds and their benefits + conduits
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Covenant dungeon bonuses
Legendary recipes
Zone hub themed to the covenant
Flavored transportation and other benefits within the zone
Dailies for the Covenant + specific quest/event like: Venthyr party
Transmog
Mount
Pet

You see the split there? We unhinge power from aesthetic.
Now you can pick your covenant aesthetic and power how you want.
How exactly does this make you bored? You have more choice than before, you lose absolutely nothing.

Maybe actually read the benefits of covenants before arguing, here's a helpful link:
https://www.wowhead.com/guides/shado...lities-rewards

Also what's this regarding my sub 500 guild? You're too generous, maybe i'm in a sub 5000 or even sub 50000 guild.
Does it matter? Would it increase my guild ranking? No m8, because everyone would get the same "benefits", so my guild wouldn't get an edge since everyone gets it.
Maybe don't try to make a point if it's an invalid premise? Don't throw logic away in the trash...

[Very rare pepe]

However, community perception in WoW is quite often incorrect. Particularly about things concerning the current meta. It trails, and some ideas get stuck in the mainstream which are no longer relevant. Community perception is much more powerful than the actual meta, because it affects the only portion of WoW(arguably) that player power actually matters, group content. Because covenants are such a ubiquitous, large feature of the expansion, and because of the controversy surrounding them, and also due to each individual's own cognitive dissonance about their own choice, covenant choice could become a factor when choosing pugs group members.

Completely agree, I don't think the Devs or the game designers know just how much group content when pugged is affected by the trickle down meta, especially when it comes to player choices, like class/azerite traits/Essences/Corruptions/talents/trinkets and now covenants.

[StillMcfuu]

Unless you are a progression mythic raider or pushing MDI, your Covenant is personal choice.