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  1. #1

    Cool Help an old warrior out

    Greetings fellow Warriors.

    For the past 15 years I've enjoyed playing wow, as a full time raider (2005/2011) and part as a casual (2012-2020).
    I've played many if not most classes (besides Monk and DK) and always managed to do my job, in my guild I was the main tank and I never had any problems managing anything.
    However... Everytime (and I'm a casual now, so I'm bound by LFR groups, and I refuse to tank LFR for ugh *reasons*) I just totally suck at either Arms or Fury spec. I can dps with any other class, whether that be melee or ranged. But as soon as I'm not tanking with my warr and I'm trying to dps I just totally fail, and I never found out the reason why.
    Is it my talents? My gear? Is Arms just bad? Argh, I never asked for help because I rather find it out myself, but with a Warr I just never did.

    This is my char:
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...valdor%C3%ACan

    If anyone can provide me with just the slightest idea how and why I suck at dps, and whether I need to be arms (current spec) or Fury, please let me know! I tried Icyveins guides and everything but so far it's all in vain.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    your character is at the very beginning of the gearing path, are you sure you aren't just comparing yourself to people who have gear and corruptions?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    your character is at the very beginning of the gearing path, are you sure you aren't just comparing yourself to people who have gear and corruptions?
    I'm comparing myself with people on the dmg meter in LFR and when I see my name at 13/14/15 I know something is wrong

  4. #4
    Arms is great, with corruptions. Without them, and being only ilvl 446, you should be doing maybe 15-20k ST consistently. ilvl in wow is always an exponential growth, so getting 10-20-30 ilvls, is going to increase your dps by 100-500% or more.

    Look at warcraft logs, find the top arms warrior on a ST fight, emulate what he does. Then your numbers will get there, as arms is really easy and hard to mess up.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by GaiusLucian View Post
    I'm comparing myself with people on the dmg meter in LFR and when I see my name at 13/14/15 I know something is wrong
    Not having 3x Test of Might trait. Not having several slots corrupted with Expedient R3. Trinkets aren’t the best. It’s all just basically like someone else said, you are at the very beginning of gearing. Arms needs the gear to perform well this tier. Don’t worry too much about it, though. Gear reset soon with new expac so you’ll be on even ground then.

  6. #6
    wile arms is pretty cool this patch,its a bit...demanding,both playstyle wise and setup,you suffer to much if you lack the pieces to make it work

    I would suggest trying fury until then,fury also feels nice fast paced and meaty,and its both easier to play and not as demanding

  7. #7
    I ran a quick sim for you on raidbots, you simmed 42,110. I'm not sure what you were doing on your dps meter but keep in mind this is a perfect scenario, all raid consumes, hero, and near perfect play. There really isn't anything you can do to increase your damage without getting more gear. Arms is very very gear dependent in this patch, you need to run Memory of Lucid Dreams major and 3x Test of Might. Switching to fury will make things a lot easier if you aren't against playing fury. It isn't as gear dependent and has much higher self healing so doing your dailies and horrific visions should be easier. With pre patch on the horizon farm corruptions isn't going to be viable. by the time you have good corruptions they are going to be disabled.

    I should also add that if you want to stay arms the stats you want are Haste > Crit > Vers > Mastery. Stat weights are pretty fluid so doing a sim as you get more gear will be a good idea. All the azerite in Ny'alotha has the Test of Might trait so if you can get into some normal runs you can get good azerite.

    Try not to compare your self to others too much, the damage inflation is insane this patch, going from 450 to 470 with good corruptions will over double the damage you deal.
    Last edited by Jibbler; 2020-08-15 at 06:19 AM.

  8. #8
    You have almost no corruptions, your cloak is only rank 7 so you don't have the strength proc yet, your gearing is kinda all over the place - I'm not sure what your stat priorities need to be I'd go ahead and sim that raidbots - your azerite traits are kinda all over the place and as near as I can tell Crushing Assault doesn't synergyze well with Test of Might and ToM is the go-to for arms.

    No enchant on your weapon or rings, no gems in your gem slots.

    I'd say the easiest thing to work on right now would be getting 3x Test of Mights and finding out what your stat priority should be. If I recall correctly Arms is currently trying to push a lot of haste and typically takes a ton of haste boosting corruptions but I'm not sure what the breakpoint is - for that I'd probably see if Icy Veins has an updated guide.

    Anyway, you're doing fine but I can see how you'd be a little down.

    And I know you said you're stuck in casual hell, but please just start asking in your guild about doing M+ dungeons - you only need to rock one or two a week so it's not a huge time commitment and can score you some massive upgrades.

    Lok'Tar your Ogar's my dude.

  9. #9
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    Some more information would be super helpful, ideally a log or maybe a Damage Meter screenshot at least.

    Also, don't compare yourself to people with full corruptions / essences /BiS Azerite gear.
    The sad truth is, in BFA it feels like your abilities are just a driver for damage procs.

    Corruptions have turned the game into a circus where proc luck counts more than actual skill when comparing equally geared characters. I can't wait for the prepatch when they finally break corruptions at least.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    Arms is great, with corruptions. Without them, and being only ilvl 446, you should be doing maybe 15-20k ST consistently. ilvl in wow is always an exponential growth, so getting 10-20-30 ilvls, is going to increase your dps by 100-500% or more.

    Look at warcraft logs, find the top arms warrior on a ST fight, emulate what he does. Then your numbers will get there, as arms is really easy and hard to mess up.
    I just came back to the game and have a 423ilvl and i'm doing 18k on st. No way he should be doing just 15-20k with a 446 ilvl.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    You have almost no corruptions, your cloak is only rank 7 so you don't have the strength proc yet, your gearing is kinda all over the place - I'm not sure what your stat priorities need to be I'd go ahead and sim that raidbots - your azerite traits are kinda all over the place and as near as I can tell Crushing Assault doesn't synergyze well with Test of Might and ToM is the go-to for arms.

    No enchant on your weapon or rings, no gems in your gem slots.

    I'd say the easiest thing to work on right now would be getting 3x Test of Mights and finding out what your stat priority should be. If I recall correctly Arms is currently trying to push a lot of haste and typically takes a ton of haste boosting corruptions but I'm not sure what the breakpoint is - for that I'd probably see if Icy Veins has an updated guide.

    Anyway, you're doing fine but I can see how you'd be a little down.

    And I know you said you're stuck in casual hell, but please just start asking in your guild about doing M+ dungeons - you only need to rock one or two a week so it's not a huge time commitment and can score you some massive upgrades.

    Lok'Tar your Ogar's my dude.
    I usually dont bother with enchants / gems, cause mostly when I do, I get an upgraded piece of gear a few days later. So yeah, my items / cloak I'm working on. Also I'm the only active player in my guild, and most people (cause I try) won't take me to M+ dungeons (unless I tank, could still do that and change loot to arms). Same goes for normal raids, I can barely find a pre-made (and again they won't take me), and LFR N'zoth is something which seems impossible still for people.
    I might try Fury, and follow Icy Veins for that. Pre-patch won't take long anw.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    I just came back to the game and have a 423ilvl and i'm doing 18k on st. No way he should be doing just 15-20k with a 446 ilvl.
    In a mythic + boss fight or heroic raid fight, where you need to do a mechanic or two, you aren't doing 18k. Sorry. Maybe your SIMC tells you you are, but that hardly comes out in real dps. Folks were bursting for 50k in Mythic ET, but on average were doing 20-35k, and that was at ilvl 445. Seeing as this guy is having some issues and asking for help, it is safe to assume he is not executing his rotation , spec , or gear perfectly. Settle down.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GaiusLucian View Post
    I might try Fury, and follow Icy Veins for that.
    Fury is definitely less dependent on specific gear right now, and the damage requires less setup to be decent.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    -H.L. Mencken, 1920

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by GaiusLucian View Post
    I usually dont bother with enchants / gems, cause mostly when I do, I get an upgraded piece of gear a few days later. So yeah, my items / cloak I'm working on. Also I'm the only active player in my guild, and most people (cause I try) won't take me to M+ dungeons (unless I tank, could still do that and change loot to arms). Same goes for normal raids, I can barely find a pre-made (and again they won't take me), and LFR N'zoth is something which seems impossible still for people.
    I might try Fury, and follow Icy Veins for that. Pre-patch won't take long anw.
    Not enchanting your gear, not gemming your gear does not increase your chances of being accepted in to pugs.
    Try to put yourself in the place of the guy organizing a m+ or a raid and try to look at your character from the outside.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    In a mythic + boss fight or heroic raid fight, where you need to do a mechanic or two, you aren't doing 18k. Sorry. Maybe your SIMC tells you you are, but that hardly comes out in real dps. Folks were bursting for 50k in Mythic ET, but on average were doing 20-35k, and that was at ilvl 445. Seeing as this guy is having some issues and asking for help, it is safe to assume he is not executing his rotation , spec , or gear perfectly. Settle down.
    You think i'm doing heroic raids and mythic+ with a 423 ilvl? I can't even get invited to a warfront group for the 460 gear let alone a heroic raid lol.

    I'm referring to lfr, heroic dungeons, dummies. And that's without any gems, enchantments, flasks, pots, food, because obviously i'm not wasting any gold at this ilvl.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by GaiusLucian View Post
    I usually dont bother with enchants / gems, cause mostly when I do, I get an upgraded piece of gear a few days later. So yeah, my items / cloak I'm working on. Also I'm the only active player in my guild, and most people (cause I try) won't take me to M+ dungeons (unless I tank, could still do that and change loot to arms). Same goes for normal raids, I can barely find a pre-made (and again they won't take me), and LFR N'zoth is something which seems impossible still for people.
    I might try Fury, and follow Icy Veins for that. Pre-patch won't take long anw.
    Might be time to find a new guild then. :-)

    For M+ if you want to boost up and you're not in an active guild you'll want the RaiderIO addon and you'll need to start at the bottom and work your way up. Even if you're replacing your gear if you want to be taken seriously by people looking for PuG members you'll want it enchanted and sockets filled.

    Fury is definitely more simple, mostly it's getting to 25-30% haste then dumping the rest into crit until well past 50% and you'll need 3x hot blood, cold steel azerite traits. After that it's all about keeping things on CD since recklessness comes up every 1.5 minutes, you'll have siegebreaker every 30s and you can just kinda go nuts.

    That said Arms is performing better in AoE right now from what I understand and you should also play what excites you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    You think i'm doing heroic raids and mythic+ with a 423 ilvl? I can't even get invited to a warfront group for the 460 gear let alone a heroic raid lol.

    I'm referring to lfr, heroic dungeons, dummies. And that's without any gems, enchantments, flasks, pots, food, because obviously i'm not wasting any gold at this ilvl.
    While I get that you're overall tone is one of disbelief, your comment is completely unconstructive and you should at least think about what you're doing and how you're playing compared to him and then make constructive criticism based on that. He's even posted an armory link so you could easily compare and make statements based on azerite traits, essences, weapon and stats.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    While I get that you're overall tone is one of disbelief, your comment is completely unconstructive and you should at least think about what you're doing and how you're playing compared to him and then make constructive criticism based on that. He's even posted an armory link so you could easily compare and make statements based on azerite traits, essences, weapon and stats.
    As nonconstructive as this post you just made, so don't be a hypocrite. My comment wasn't aimed at the OP. I clearly quoted someone saying he should be doing 15-20k dps at 446ilvl. Which is incorrect because that's what i do on my warrior at just 423ilvl.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    As nonconstructive as this post you just made, so don't be a hypocrite. My comment wasn't aimed at the OP. I clearly quoted someone saying he should be doing 15-20k dps at 446ilvl. Which is incorrect because that's what i do on my warrior at just 423ilvl.
    If it makes you feel better what I posted was a lot more polite than the first thing I thought about posting. :-)

  19. #19
    unfortunately, borrowed power (corruptions, essences, azerite traits) are a VERY large portion of your damage. my dh for example, not including buffs such as furious gaze that give me over 1.1k haste, just the damage procs and use effects.... over 40% of my total damage in a mythic plus is from borrowed power. twilight dev alone usually ends up being 20-35% of my damage, depending on procs as a dps.

    the last mythic + i did, i believe it was a 15 kings rest... twilight dev was 26.1%, azerite beam was 9.6, lethal strikes 6, purification 3.9, heed my call 1.3 comes to 46.9% of my total damage.

    now if you throw in the fact that many of my azerite traits, especially 3 furious gaze traits for 3.3k total haste for 12 seconds every time i eye beam on a 30 second cooldown..... or the 1k haste from meticullous scheming... overwhelming power procs for 25 applications of 34 haste that decay, clockwork heart for 390 secondary stats for 12 seconds every minute, as well as a few others....

    remove all of that and my dps goes from 70-80k single target probably less than 25k.


    now take into consideration that you have 0 corruption, and unenchanted gear, as well as suboptimal azerite traits. your dps will seem incredibly low compared to people that have corruption, enchants, and proper traits.

    edit: sorry, i missed the mastery corruption proc, but mastery isnt the greatest for arms iirc
    Last edited by Sevarin; 2020-08-16 at 04:58 AM.

  20. #20
    Thanks for the help so far. I've decided to give fury a go and work on my cloak/gear and get stuff enchanted/gemmed and see how that goes from there on.

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