Everyone Deserves to Make a Living Wage Regardless of Job/Status

[Themius]

Cute attempt to spread around that commie gang from the narrow and dumb fields they actually most flock to.
Speaking of facts it would be amazing if one day that spectrum of "HIGHLY EDUCATED" children stops skipping history and economics classes before embarking on "progressive" crusades.

You realize we have numbers of number of graduations happening and what degrees they are.

I see that as usual right wing people are prone to clinging onto fantasy

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=37

Of the 1,956,000 bachelor’s degrees conferred in 2016–17, the greatest numbers of degrees were conferred in the fields of business (381,000), health professions and related programs (238,000), social sciences and history (159,000), psychology (117,000), biological and biomedical sciences (117,000), engineering (116,000), communication, journalism, and related programs (94,000), and visual and performing arts (91,000). At the master’s degree level, the greatest numbers of degrees were conferred in the fields of business (187,000), education (146,000), and health professions and related programs (119,000). At the doctor’s degree level, the greatest numbers of degrees were conferred in the fields of health professions and related programs (77,700), legal professions and studies (35,100), education (12,700), engineering (10,400), biological and biomedical sciences (8,100), psychology (6,700), and physical sciences and science technologies (6,000).

[BeepBoo]

Lol, no.

Society can exist without money. "Social value" is an entirely arbitrary function, and the fact that we no longer spent shitsquillion percent of our GDP on endowing chantries and monasteries for the salvation of our souls is evidence of that.

You realize this is exactly what money was created for, yes? To make trading goods and services easier so we didn't need to barter?

Money is just an easy way to think of "amount of shit I can get for the amount of shit I give" That's it. It was a simplification of the process.

I won't bother with the rest.

Are you, personally, valuable to our society?

I make plenty of money and the service I provide to society is hard enough that it becomes a statistical anomaly such that most people wouldn't be able to do my job even if they had the ability to get training. In addition, I'm statistically rare and better at a plethora of metrics that indicate I have a high degree of potential as a human. I'm also adaptable and would likely be able to find a spot in any type of society.

You know the guys who talk that sorta game are usually the first who would be on the chopping block if their ideas were actually put in practice.

Mhmm... and this is based on what exactly?

Where does a landlord fit into this equation, exactly, if people own their own houses - what value are they introducing.

Temporary housing is absolutely necessary and important. Selling houses relies on finding buyers. Owning something usually means you're solely reliable to fix said thing. Land lords fit in exactly where they are right now. They provide non-permanent housing solutions that are less burdensome for the buyer to offload.

Man it's almost as if you're discovering a housing market inherently creates homelessness or something.

Man, it's almost as if making a house properly requires a metric fuck ton of resources and time, and like space limited as to where you can even build, and that the capacity to produce such a good is also limited, and like people expect something in return for all that labor of putting it together...

In addition, man it's almost as if you're seeing that a housing market does exactly what it's supposed to do: give people who WANT something more (not need) the ability to acquire it by allowing them to exchange as much value as they're willing to.

People deserve a place to live as a matter of right, and believing otherwise is sociopathic. So no - it's not a function of "laziness".

Nice divine fallacy there. It ain't true just because you say it is. If it comes at the expense of labor by someone else, those laborers deserve to attempt to seek as much as they desire in exchange for doing it.

I ask again: if everyone owns their own place, where do landlords fit into the demand for real estate? Especially considering many of them actually do not own their properties outright, but buy them on mortgage and then use the rent to cover the mortgage, and then extract further profit.

They fit in as people who the bank decided was worthy of a loan large enough to construct said property, and as someone who even wanted to bother pursuing building such a place in the first place. Banks have standards that are backed by statistics for determining their criteria and risks of a person to be lent to. I wonder why that is? Maybe because, statistically, they're ~95% confident someone above that stat line isn't going to become a pain in their ass and default, versus people below those lines usually will?

[Keosen]

I make plenty of money and the service I provide to society is hard enough that it becomes a statistical anomaly such that most people wouldn't be able to do my job even if they had the ability to get training. In addition, I'm statistically rare and better at a plethora of metrics that indicate I have a high degree of potential as a human. I'm also adaptable and would likely be able to find a spot in any type of society.

What is your profession, if i may ask.

[BeepBoo]

What is your profession, if i may ask?

Lots of 1s and 0s.

[kamuimac]

Useless degrees were more popular in the past than they are now since most people now want to make decent money... this Is why the most popular degrees are business, health professions, social science, psychology, biological/biomedical, engineering. You do not live in reality either that or you just don't give a fuck about facts...

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1. That depends on your skin colour. Much of America functions under the same atmosphere as the very laws that inspired Nazi Germany.

2. living and working conditions have gotten worse over the past 50ish years... or remained stagnant..

I'm including ability to actually afford a home in living conditions.

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Schools in usa run by property taxes mostly and red lining led to lower house prices... and areas with minorities instantly were worth less... regardless of any other factors other than being too brown..this then led to less funding for those brown schools which then led to well... poor education and not equality.

Access to knowledge online is easier... but now... the boomers demand people have 20-40k or more... degrees.

this sounds like the boomer generation...they worked less, made more money, and took more vacation time from work than current generations. Who the fuck are you calling lazy?


Good for you, is your family every family is your family every situation in the whole world? Were there laws specifically made to oppress and marginalise your family?



You mean like the baby boomers who crashed the entire economy out of being lazy and wanting easy money?

the irony when im getting called as boomer when im in fact according to its definition a millenial

also not touching the race part with 10 feet pole as it would bet me infraction if i written what i think

ill only pick on 1 week point - the best businesses people did in past 20 years when investing in apartments were when they invested in poor parts of towns and then gentrified it making the life of people in those districts much better by driving away the "criminal elements" with help of local police which suddenly was much better funded due to more taxes used for this purpose.

[Hilhen7]

the irony when im getting called as boomer when im in fact according to its definition a millenial

also not touching the race part with 10 feet pole as it would bet me infraction if i written what i think

ill only pick on 1 week point - the best businesses people did in past 20 years when investing in apartments were when they invested in poor parts of towns and then gentrified it making the life of people in those districts much better by driving away the "criminal elements" with help of local police which suddenly was much better funded due to more taxes used for this purpose.

Driving away the "Criminal Elements"? Oh you mean by driving the poor out....

[Themius]

the irony when im getting called as boomer when im in fact according to its definition a millenial

also not touching the race part with 10 feet pole as it would bet me infraction if i written what i think

ill only pick on 1 week point - the best businesses people did in past 20 years when investing in apartments were when they invested in poor parts of towns and then gentrified it making the life of people in those districts much better by driving away the "criminal elements" with help of local police which suddenly was much better funded due to more taxes used for this purpose.

No one called you a boomer. Only that you are saying the same things they do.

I mean if you write what you think on race and fear infraction the problem is your bigotry.

Nazi Germany was impressed by America’s oppression of minorities... and those laws persisted until the late 60s and then were only modified.

[kamuimac]

Driving away the "Criminal Elements"? Oh you mean by driving the poor out....

interesting how nowhere in my post i written about driving away poor - but you automatickly associate poor people with criminals

i dont.

the are a lot of hard working people who not only have no problem to afford living there but also are happy because of how much better life is now when its safe in night.

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I mean if you write what you think on race and fear infraction the problem is your bigotry.

nowadays everything that is not following the leftist way of thinking is automatickly called as rasist and bigotery so i dont mind being called that.

i also cba discussing facts - as those earned me tons of infractions in past not worth it. thats why ill keep those to myself

[Themius]

interesting how nowhere in my post i written about driving away poor - but you automatickly associate poor people with criminals

i dont.

the are a lot of hard working people who not only have no problem to afford living there but also are happy because of how much better life is now when its safe in night.

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nowadays everything that is not following the leftist way of thinking is automatickly called as rasist and bigotery so i dont mind being called that.

i also cba discussing facts - as those earned me tons of infractions in past not worth it. thats why ill keep those to myself

Often because anything not following that way of thinking is in fact racist bigotry.

For instance. Republicans moved away from think tanks filled with professionals as they determined that the literal "facts" were "left biased" So instead of think tanks looking at the economy filled with economist you get think tanks filled with 2 economist who happened to work in banking and then bankers without an economics background, with heads of several industries in the think tank instead of you know.. the professional specifically dealing with economy.

The economy actually was the major problem for the right. Their own think tanks backed raising wages for people in general as it overall helped the economy and everyone. The thing is the right weren't really interested in that so much as just looting everyone and giving money to the wealthiest.. so they began drastically changing think tanks from fact finding things in the 70s to... partisan hackery.

You say facts but your people aren't exactly interested in facts it turns out.

For instance people like you like to use stats to say "this is why I'm a racist!" meanwhile the people who actually did the research and created the stats say "there are external factors that happened around the time of these specific targeted laws against x minority this could explain the issue"

So no do not pretend you give a flying fuck about facts, you simply do not as facts are inconvenient.

[Hilhen7]

interesting how nowhere in my post i written about driving away poor - but you automatickly associate poor people with criminals

i dont.

the are a lot of hard working people who not only have no problem to afford living there but also are happy because of how much better life is now when its safe in night.

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What exactly do you think gentrification is...?

[Themius]

What exactly do you think gentrification is...?

the are a lot of hard working people who not only have no problem to afford living there but also are happy because of how much better life is now when its safe in night.

I like that he said this because the thing is compared to 50 years ago.

People work more, take less vacations, yet have more debt, struggling to live, as everything has become more expensive and wages have remained largely stagnant.

He is either not in the know, isn't aware of the facts, or finds facts inconvenient so ignores them.

[kamuimac]

I like that he said this because the thing is compared to 50 years ago.

People work more, take less vacations, yet have more debt, struggling to live, as everything has become more expensive and wages have remained largely stagnant.

He is either not in the know, isn't aware of the facts, or finds facts inconvenient so ignores them.

a) i think that saying "people work more" is factually incorrect - (the work week in most countries in EU is 35-40 hours of work - and people working in those jobs usualy have no problem to live on decent standard - they only work more if they want to buy more expensive stuff and its ok ) - and is based solely on american middle and upper middle class from 50ies with man working and woman not working only raising kids - thing is its ignoring WHO the middle class back then consisted of , and who were the people who were able to support their way of living from 1 income.

future will also bring changes to it - many countries are experiementing already with thoughts about 4 day work weeks - which is inevitable with automatization coming strong in incoming decade - imo by the 2030 most of countries of west will change it officialy to 4 day work weeks. if it wont go much further to 3 days - to keep certain jobs.

b) debt is not a bad thing - as long as you have no problem to maintain financial flow - financial leverage is beautifuly working tool if you know how to use it correckly - and ofc if you are smart enough to not overinvest to put yourself in to much debt. - its also what gives so many people jobs - because their bosses are able to invest much more money into busisness then it was historicaly possible in past.

[Themius]

a) i think that saying "people work more" is factually incorrect - and is based solely on american middle and upper middle class from 50ies - thing is its ignoring WHO the middle class back then consisted of , and who were the people who were able to support their way of living from 1 income.

future will also bring changes to it - many countries are experiementing already with thoughts about 4 day work weeks - which is inevitable with automatization coming strong in incoming decade - imo by the 2030 most of countries of west will change it officialy to 4 day work weeks. if it wont go much further to 3 days - to keep certain jobs.

b) debt is not a bad thing - as long as you have no problem to maintain financial flow - financial leverage is beautifuly working tool if you know how to use it correckly - and ofc if you are smart enough to not overinvest to put yourself in to much debt. - its also what gives so many people jobs - because their bosses are able to invest much more money into busisness then it was historicaly possible in past.

I literally posted the source already from harvard about working hours and the fact millennials don't even take vacations. Millennials are working longer hours, and taking fewer days off than previous generations. So this idea that is is "factually incorrect" is about how you feel, and I do not care how you feel.

Debt is a bad thing for most people now... as the price of things have outpaced growth in wages if wages increase by 6% but everything else increases by 12-15% a year do you notice the problem?

Also interesting how you go to "businesses get to invest!" people aren't businesses...they're people...

We have a working set up that requires people get degrees for any well paying jobs, and also the cost of education has gone up way more than wages have increased... housing has also gone up and baby boomers control what gets built... and baby boomers in particular have decided to stonefly stymie new buildings in areas that would decrease prices... so instead people must move further from jobs until you end up with people having to travel further and spend quite a lot in just travel.

[Vorkreist]

You realize we have numbers of number of graduations happening and what degrees they are.

I see that as usual right wing people are prone to clinging onto fantasy

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=37

So all degrees go to far left commies ? Damn. Its worse than I thought !

[Themius]

So all degrees go to far left commies ? Damn. Its worse than I thought !

Your argument was "Millennials go for bad degrees that don't pay nothing hahahahahahahaha"

My augment was "Here are official government stats disproving you"

It seems you always are incapable of well... thinking critically about this.

Is your argument now that all these "good degrees" are going to right wing people??

IN general the right has an issue with higher education typically because it exposes people to lots of ideas and people and well... makes them not bigots.



https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/essa...her-education/

Note also that the share of right leaning people shrinks the more educated someone is:


https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...ucated-adults/

But somehow you think the "good degrees" are mostly right wing people? What a joke.

Let me guess.. these numbers are bias because facts have a left bias...

it isn't that facts have a left bias... it is that the right has a bias to lies, fantasy, and folly.

Also note that "conservatives" in general are always a minority compared to the two left most. When looking above high school education

[kamuimac]

I literally posted the source already from harvard about working hours and the fact millennials don't even take vacations. Millennials are working longer hours, and taking fewer days off than previous generations. So this idea that is is "factually incorrect" is about how you feel, and I do not care how you feel.

Debt is a bad thing for most people now... as the price of things have outpaced growth in wages if wages increase by 6% but everything else increases by 12-15% a year do you notice the problem?

Also interesting how you go to "businesses get to invest!" people aren't businesses...they're people...

We have a working set up that requires people get degrees for any well paying jobs, and also the cost of education has gone up way more than wages have increased... housing has also gone up and baby boomers control what gets built... and baby boomers in particular have decided to stonefly stymie new buildings in areas that would decrease prices... so instead people must move further from jobs until you end up with people having to travel further and spend quite a lot in just travel.

a) i dont see it around me - yes the prices of food is steadily growing but for example the price of electric devices compared to wages is much lower atm then for example 20 years ago . same for clothes and many other things.

b)and thats bad attitude - imo people should see themselves as a "business" that they invest into through their whole lives - for example by educating themselves constantly and developing themself. they should have the same business attitude towards their spendings - very few people for example track their "costs" and "expenses" - and are unaware how much money they are wasting on stupid stuff.

c)about the cost of education - thats only true for US - here in EU in many countries university education is free (when done in normal "monday-friday mode" on non-private universities - plus with multiple scholarships (social/good grades) people are actually being paid for being educated - i had such scholarship for good grades over the course of 4 semesters was very nice "free" additional income . ofc you had to have really good "averge grade".

[Themius]

a) i dont see it around me - yes the prices of food is steadily growing but for example the price of electric devices compared to wages is much lower atm then for example 20 years ago . same for clothes and many other things.

b)and thats bad attitude - imo people should see themselves as a "business" that they invest into through their whole lives - for example by educating themselves constantly and developing themself. they should have the same business attitude towards their spendings - very few people for example track their "costs" and "expenses" - and are unaware how much money they are wasting on stupid stuff.

c)about the cost of education - thats only true for US - here in EU in many countries university education is free (when done in normal "monday-friday mode" on non-private universities - plus with multiple scholarships (social/good grades) people are actually being paid for being educated - i had such scholarship for good grades over the course of 4 semesters was very nice "free" additional income . ofc you had to have really good "averge grade".

I am talking about America which has been clear here. So you trying to lecture me about race issues and jobs in America is beyond folly.

[Vorkreist]

Your argument was "Millennials go for bad degrees that don't pay nothing hahahahahahahaha"

My augment was "Here are official government stats disproving you"

It seems you always are incapable of well... thinking critically about this.

Is your argument now that all these "good degrees" are going to right wing people??

IN general the right has an issue with higher education typically because it exposes people to lots of ideas and people and well... makes them not bigots.



https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/essa...her-education/

Note also that the share of right leaning people shrinks the more educated someone is:


https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...ucated-adults/

But somehow you think the "good degrees" are mostly right wing people? What a joke.

Let me guess.. these numbers are bias because facts have a left bias...

it isn't that facts have a left bias... it is that the right has a bias to lies, fantasy, and folly.

Also note that "conservatives" in general are always a minority compared to the two left most. When looking above high school education

You keep trying to weasel away. 1st it was all degrees now its mostly democrats (as if that had anything to do with what I said and you know it).
I liked it more when you called me an uneducated boomer right winger.
Another kidnapped buzzword that fell victim to your bad faith crusade to defend communists: "Millennials". Sigh.

[Auxora]

I don't think anyone is in favor of everyone in the country getting say $15/hr without working (for those capable of working). That's not really been seriously proposed by either party and is more of a hypothetical question around socialism. What does get discussion in the US is minimum wage, and what an acceptable rate is for that.

What the GOP doesn't want to talk about when this topic comes up, is the relation between their stance on immigration and minimum wage. They are against immigration. But that has a trade-off in a major way on low-income jobs. Americans do not want to do jobs in beef processing plants, doing migrant farm work in fields, being a maid, dishwasher, etc. So in many cases right or wrong these jobs are filled by immigrants. So the GOP greatly reducing immigration significantly reduces the supply of cheaper labor. And with supply and demand wages must increase or the jobs simply won't get filled. They can't have it both ways. So they have to either loosen up immigration, or increase minimum wages enough to push Americans to take those jobs. But they don't want to do either. Maybe they just want to push Americans into such poverty that they have to take those jobs out of desperation. Those jobs still need to be done whether immigrants are here or not. There is irony that some of the people pushing to 'build the wall' and close off immigration will be finding their next job to be processing beef or cleaning wealthy people's homes for $8 an hour, when the people that had been doing those jobs are gone. That's the real reason why minimum wage is a hot topic.

[Themius]

You keep trying to weasel away. 1st it was all degrees now its mostly democrats (as if that had anything to do with what I said and you know it).
I liked it more when you called me an uneducated boomer right winger.
Another kidnapped buzzword that fell victim to your bad faith crusade to defend communists: "Millennials". Sigh.

Except the only thing I actually called you was a right winger

It seems you’ve forgotten what the conversation was and are lashing out. You said millennials problem are shitty degrees. I have now disproven that. You said then that I just think those degrees are going to be left alluding to the fact you think they aren’t. So then I point out that right leaning people are a minority above high school. To which your retort was... something nonsensical.