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  1. #21
    i disagree, its a playstyle option that gives the people who liked old voidform (the whole 5 of them), to keep playing how they liked it

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    That’s not how WoW works, at all. And if you truly believe this, you need to leave your opinions in threads that discuss transmogs or something.
    Only in hradcore content you HAVE to take the best of everything. I played my Moonkin with an suboptimal spec half of this addon because i did not like starlord. In comaprison with the other moonkins there was no real difference. Sometimes they have been on top sometimes not.
    The difference between most talents in wow is not that big dmg wise. Sure some are. But as many has allready said in many threats. The top will always take the best option no matter what. So why take away the option for someone to play with LotV. Mots players don't care how you skill as long as you pull your weight.

    And if you are in a world top 100 Guild... well... deal with it?^^

    I get what you are trying to say. But this addon moves away from exactly what you are describing by just not giving you the choice ( covenants ). So just play how you want. Good players can lead their classes respective dmg meter no matter how you skill. ( with the odd exception )

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by valky94 View Post
    i disagree, its a playstyle option that gives the people who liked old voidform (the whole 5 of them), to keep playing how they liked it
    Agree . don't like the talent ? good news , there is two other talents to choose !

    i know i will have much more fun with surrendering to madness , but i also like that blizz is trying to give people that liked the old shadow a window in wich they can experience that feeling again . Far too many spec never had that choice( still crying in demo lock)

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by naeblis495 View Post
    ( still crying in demo lock)
    I feel you. I would have killed for the chance to keep my old demo playstyle.

    LotV is an awsome talent because it gives you options. OP is really crying for the sake of crying.

  5. #25
    So why is this the one old playstyle that get's kept on life support rather than any other?
    When will we see talents for snapshot DoTs? When will we see the talent for fans of Mind Spike builds? Where is the Shadow Orbs option?

    It's not like they can't be fitted into the current Shadow too.

    LotV is made to bring back the volatile nature of Legion/BfA if only in flavor. Yet it also shares a row with another talent that has had a bit of a pick or you are a troll reputation; Surrender to Madness. So if you want a talent on that row that isn't at high risk of being changed every single patch you get one option.
    I'd rather have a talent row where each talent shines in various circumstances and content, where picking one doesn't boil down to how the dice rolls landed on patch day since one or two options may be super powerful or both may be shit.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by valky94 View Post
    i disagree, its a playstyle option that gives the people who liked old voidform (the whole 5 of them), to keep playing how they liked it
    Dont forget that Ve still has a cd.. so no it will be a lame version of bfa and a relic of Legion.

    Thr concern is that right now its to good cus of dp. If it doesnt get nerfed.. people are forced into it.

    Now that woulf be a waste of the rework.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pregnant Orc View Post
    So why is this the one old playstyle that get's kept on life support rather than any other?
    When will we see talents for snapshot DoTs? When will we see the talent for fans of Mind Spike builds? Where is the Shadow Orbs option?

    It's not like they can't be fitted into the current Shadow too.

    LotV is made to bring back the volatile nature of Legion/BfA if only in flavor. Yet it also shares a row with another talent that has had a bit of a pick or you are a troll reputation; Surrender to Madness. So if you want a talent on that row that isn't at high risk of being changed every single patch you get one option.
    I'd rather have a talent row where each talent shines in various circumstances and content, where picking one doesn't boil down to how the dice rolls landed on patch day since one or two options may be super powerful or both may be shit.
    This exactly.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Pregnant Orc View Post
    So why is this the one old playstyle that get's kept on life support rather than any other?
    When will we see talents for snapshot DoTs? When will we see the talent for fans of Mind Spike builds? Where is the Shadow Orbs option?

    It's not like they can't be fitted into the current Shadow too.

    LotV is made to bring back the volatile nature of Legion/BfA if only in flavor. Yet it also shares a row with another talent that has had a bit of a pick or you are a troll reputation; Surrender to Madness. So if you want a talent on that row that isn't at high risk of being changed every single patch you get one option.
    I'd rather have a talent row where each talent shines in various circumstances and content, where picking one doesn't boil down to how the dice rolls landed on patch day since one or two options may be super powerful or both may be shit.
    That’s why I’m trying to stay away from people who keep saying “WHY NOT ALLOW US TO HAVE THIS IF WE WANT”, because it’s just a nonsense argument.

    Every single rework that has ever been made ever has never given anyone the opportunity to basically revert the rework just for the sake of ‘just because’. The problem with this is that it could, and probably will, seriously effect the rework itself down the road.

    Why can’t go back to the ranged dot play style of survival? Why can’t I go back and go back to stance dance warrior if I want? The answer is obvious and doesn’t need to be addressed. If you hold the opinion of “just allow others to...” then you just don’t understand this game in the least bit, sorry.

  8. #28
    I agree. It worries me a lot after seeing them bring back the ramp up and stacking mechanisms. The old void form is never balanced. This talent row is not for those single target/AOE situations and there are not such things of win/win choices. Only one talent will be selected and become mandatory because it will be the best anyway. Players are forced to used it unless they don't care about the damage at all.

    What is even worse is that new borrowed power could come in the future and since these devs are so obsessed and good at making void form "attractive", it is quite possible another mass hysteria or a second chorus of insanity being introduced. Shadow priest really has suffered enough from these stupid stacking mechanisms.
    Last edited by HealeRaphael; 2020-08-20 at 06:48 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    That’s why I’m trying to stay away from people who keep saying “WHY NOT ALLOW US TO HAVE THIS IF WE WANT”, because it’s just a nonsense argument.
    You call it a nonsense argument, yet that's the reason the devs are keeping LotV. What's nonsense is forcing your idea of optimization down everyone's throats. Unless you're pushing high keys or mythic raids, you don't need to play optimally.

    I wish they did this with more of their reworks. IMO it's better to have options for different playstyles than trying to balance things perfectly, especially since a vast majority of the playerbase just picks the talents they like.

    Granted, I do agree that it would be better to make LotV slightly less optimal than the other two and not worry about it being as good because like 1h frost, people who like it will play it regardless.
    Last edited by Not A Cat; 2020-08-21 at 01:37 PM.
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  10. #30
    The hilarious thing is they rework the spec and in the end Voidform is probably going to be the best so people will be forced to use it to be competitive. By end of expansion scaling you will probably be forced into it regardless.
    Last edited by Hollowlithic; 2020-08-21 at 01:49 PM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollowlithic View Post
    The hilarious thing is they rework the spec and in the end Voidform is probably going to be the best so people will be forced to use it to be competitive. By end of expansion scaling you will probably be forced into it regardless.
    I think it's fine if Legacy of the Void stays to give people who want to retain a similar play style the option to do that.

    However, I agree with Hollowlithic here that there is a valid concern from people who do not want this that LotV may end up being the strongest talent pick for that row and thus force people to play it if they want to be competitive at the higher end.

    In the current iteration of that talent row, I don't think "Ancient Madness" can compete with LotV at all after they recently added the stacking Haste bonus and DP extension through Void Bolt into the talent. Even "Surrender to Madness" is a strictly better than AM on paper as long as there's a target you can kill.

    I may be wrong but I think this is really the major concern for a lot of people - i.e. that tuning in that row will force them to go back to a play style that they dislike / hate / wanted to get away from. Blizzard will need to do more work on that row to ensure that that the other two talents will be able to compete with the new LotV and that's what the feedback from the community should be.
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  12. #32
    Couldn't agree with OP more. One step forward, two steps back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venara View Post
    I think it's fine if Legacy of the Void stays to give people who want to retain a similar play style the option to do that.
    It's impossible to balance it that way without it ending up the meta after a few months of gearing. I think ppl that actually like that playstyle are not even a vocal minority, just let it go!
    Last edited by Sinaa; 2020-08-21 at 03:11 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinaa View Post
    Couldn't agree with OP more. One step forward, two steps back.



    It's impossible to balance it that way without it ending up the meta after a few months of gearing. I think ppl that actually like that playstyle are not even a vocal minority, just let it go!
    I actually prefer a dead talent over legacy for now. Give us void entropy back or some bad stuff, idc. Just like surrender had a negative impact on shadow every patch legacy of the void will have a negative impact on the new one if it ever will be slightly viable. Just don't introduce it at all...

  14. #34
    Nope. Legacy of the Void is the saving grace of Shadow Priests and makes up for ruining the one unique spec/class in the game

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    Oh so you can guarantee that every other talent will be just as viable and on par with this for 100% sure. I don’t think you understand what actually happens when blizzard tweaks talents.
    you don't have to run the 100% optimal perfect top DPS meta build,you know

    No one is forcing you unless you're in a top 50 guild

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    you don't have to run the 100% optimal perfect top DPS meta build,you know

    No one is forcing you unless you're in a top 50 guild
    If you have payed attention to wows meta for... idk, more than a month you would understand that it’s not tuned to a way where you can just choose one and do slightly worse/better than if you were to take another one. Especially when it comes to talents like these. This is as if a ret Paladin in wotlk where to just not take divine storm and be like “well I don’t like it, and I’ll do fine without it”.

    No, what they always do is have one that’s WAY more powerful than the rest for a certain scenario, and if you DONT take it you won’t be invited to anything else, including pugs, because of how low you will be compared to everyone else.

    Whether you want to believe it or not, groups and pugs will only invite you if you’re worth inviting. This has nothing to do with the top 1%.

    If they just made this talent complete trash and not even approaching the Meta just for the rpers who really want to stick with this play style, that’s fine. But as of these last changes anyone and their dog should be able to see where this is heading. It’s heading in a direction where it’s just going to be the talent to take, and anything else is lesser and you’ll be forced to basically revert the rework you were hyped for going back into the same trash insanity dance everyone was gleeful for when they removed it.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    If you have payed attention to wows meta for... idk, more than a month you would understand that it’s not tuned to a way where you can just choose one and do slightly worse/better than if you were to take another one. Especially when it comes to talents like these. This is as if a ret Paladin in wotlk where to just not take divine storm and be like “well I don’t like it, and I’ll do fine without it”.

    No, what they always do is have one that’s WAY more powerful than the rest for a certain scenario, and if you DONT take it you won’t be invited to anything else, including pugs, because of how low you will be compared to everyone else.

    Whether you want to believe it or not, groups and pugs will only invite you if you’re worth inviting. This has nothing to do with the top 1%.

    If they just made this talent complete trash and not even approaching the Meta just for the rpers who really want to stick with this play style, that’s fine. But as of these last changes anyone and their dog should be able to see where this is heading. It’s heading in a direction where it’s just going to be the talent to take, and anything else is lesser and you’ll be forced to basically revert the rework you were hyped for going back into the same trash insanity dance everyone was gleeful for when they removed it.
    Sounds like what you'd hear from a top 25K guild player pretending to be a hardcore player.
    As a top 500 guild player I can say one thing for sure : You don't need to be optimal unless you're in a top 50 guild

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    Sounds like what you'd hear from a top 25K guild player pretending to be a hardcore player.
    As a top 500 guild player I can say one thing for sure : You don't need to be optimal unless you're in a top 50 guild
    And I’m telling you from someone who doesn’t claim to be hardcore in any sense of the word, I play completely casually in mostly pugs.... that this 100% effects how you get into groups or reinvited back to pug groups.

    Idk what Lala land you live in where you think everyone is just okay with you running terrible specs and are okay with carrying you just because but this is not how it works. This isn’t how it’s worked for a very long time. Christ some groups won’t even invite your CLASS if it’s out of meta let alone if you’re choosing to gimp yourself.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    That’s not how WoW works, at all. And if you truly believe this, you need to leave your opinions in threads that discuss transmogs or something.
    Yes that how WoW works. Unless you are pushing top content, there is no need to pick talents that are increase in DPS, but make the gameplay shit. If you feel the compulsion to chase every % of extra DPS, then it is on you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    And I’m telling you from someone who doesn’t claim to be hardcore in any sense of the word, I play completely casually in mostly pugs.... that this 100% effects how you get into groups or reinvited back to pug groups.

    Idk what Lala land you live in where you think everyone is just okay with you running terrible specs and are okay with carrying you just because but this is not how it works. This isn’t how it’s worked for a very long time. Christ some groups won’t even invite your CLASS if it’s out of meta let alone if you’re choosing to gimp yourself.
    Majority of pugs simply go to raider.io or check achivs. Sure you will find some that will be doing hard inspects and refuse you on some dumb basis, but it's minority.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    And I’m telling you from someone who doesn’t claim to be hardcore in any sense of the word, I play completely casually in mostly pugs
    Then you don't need to play optimally

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