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  1. #81
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    This looks like a slightly edited version of Legion PvP templates, which were rightfully despised because certain classes simply do not work (not acceptably, at least) below a certain minimum of secondary stats - and templates made it very hard to reach those "required" thresholds. You had a more or less functional class in open world and instanced PvE, only to step inside a BG/Arena and realise that e.g. your casting times had all of a sudden gone up by ~30%. It was a pretty !@#$ty feeling, but at least it was confined to PvP. Now getting more of the "required" secondary stat will become an exercise in frustration until 9.2.5/9.3... unless they can pull a rabbit off the hat with soulbinds bonuses. But I'm not overly optimistic
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  2. #82
    Brewmaster Alkizon's Avatar
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    As I didn’t like almost linear dependence back then, still don't. Graph should rather be something more like flatter logarithm, which strives for certain value, but never reaches it (increase in efficiency slightly exceeds linear value at first, and then sharp drop occurs, which will be based on existing mathematical function and these incomprehensible percentages won't needed; at the same time, spell bonuses give increase not to percentage, but to quantitative indicator of characteristic, although in case of personal buffs this can vary from class to class using specific coefficient *heavy breathing with looking at s&d*), while percentage to total points' value is calculated from requirements of particular level (as it happened always before)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    On the other hand, I still think that in order not to "increase" numbers on gear, then, as minimum, it's worthwhile, within limits of "characteristics displayed on item", to display real bonus of this secondary characteristics compressed from level (moreover, cutting percentage of mandatory "dividing content sphere" (preferable to a greater extent only for PvP (res) or PvE (hit, exp, "avoidance", kind of threat generation bonus, etc)) characteristics should be much stronger than others, which means that player, first of all - at the beginning of expansion, will "customize" (some words about itemization's organisation here) (professions, choose from proposed items) these indicators (soft/hard caps), which, with next comming equipment, will be more for this "tier~ilvl" and player will switch to choice of secondary indicators, that amplifying character directly (perhaps, even in form of "deteriorating secondary necessary ones, for the sake of reinforcing secondary power" by professions' stuff, which will put needs of reforging in not much essential position), which will entail urgent need in switch to "new" ilvl with character's lvl growth (with deleting stupid "drop/reward's scaling"). And! all this is true also for all professions' products of customizing, so there're no problems with characters' "forcing" transfer to new recipes. In this case, I think, it makes sense to decide on "floor and ceiling" in order not to generate abnormal (negative/fractional/infinit) numbers.
    Simplified example: same item displays for 10lvl character 50 hit/exp/def/etc points for getting rating, and for 50lvl already 1, but number of points for acceptable rating indicator of both are the same.
    and taking into account class (specific talents) individual possibilities of modernizing this value (with correct ratio latter one isn't even much necessary). Do you know what gets in the way of this approach? - scaling (all its levels bring certain amount of chaos to calculations) and current unification of level as absolute value (this is if we assume that you're now forever stuck on reaching level 60); although they're already usually trying to bypass it by raise percentage requirements(cost of each percent)/characteristic&ilvl squish at each expansion, which means this isn't insurmountable.

    Let's take a look at hast for example: reaching absolute value (no matter for what level), which is 100%, will stream to these mythical cutoffs of 100% of total (any) casting/hitting time to 0 ms (instantaneous value, even without GCD+0,5s of its untouchable part ); for greater importance, it remains only to figure out at what point "bend" is most adequate, as well as indicator of its "sharpness". Indicators/abilities that give absolute value (aka 100%) don't add anything to characteristics, but simply temporarily replace that value for character('s spell formula).

    What I see now looks more like another illogical crutch. I don't understand what could be easier and versatile than using available math functions. Maybe I don't quite understand situation? Can anyone explain?

    ps. Being rogue, I'm very suspicious and wary of "Diminishing Returns" mention. It knocks me out of my comfort zone

    - - - Updated - - -

    You are overthinking it.
    I understand why they are doing this, since I spoke about it even myself long time ago, for example here (arp was mentioned there; oh, need to re-declare description link with this new thread). But what I don't understand is why resort to such private decision - it's stupid to cut percentage without any dependencies, somehow very "childish" (quick solution, but not very visual, like: here it goes fine, but here let's cut it off, and then furthermore stepwise, but not smoothly by same algorithm/math function; they already did this and it didn't end well afterall). I.e. I don't criticize problem's importance and fact of attempts to solve it, but only specific discussed way.

    I asked only in order to find out whether they're simplifying their real approach just "for description" (and, in fact, there is specific mathematics behind it) or it's literally "like that".
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2020-10-22 at 10:32 AM.
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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    Maybe I don't quite understand situation? Can anyone explain?
    You are overthinking it. Most people here are overthinking it. This is a non-change for the most part. It's literally just something they put in to future proof the system in the off-case of them making some insane corruption 2.0 system in 9.3 where our secondary stats get inflated again, so that people don't reach ridiculous values like Rextroy's 180% versatility paladin.

    For most of Shadowlands, people won't be affected by this. You won't even be reaching 25% of a stat from gear in the beginning of an expansion. This is simply just a countermeasure to prevent ridiculousness from happening in 9.3

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Mouri Kogorou View Post
    after reaching 25% received from gear of any secondary stat, it will now take increasingly more rating to increase another % of that stat from your gear.

    This means that if you have, let's say, 40% haste without Corruption, when the pre-patch comes, you'll only have 38% haste.

    This penalty is as follows:
    From 0 to 25%, there's no penalty.
    From 25% to 34%, there's a 10% penalty.
    From 34% to 42%, there's a 20% penalty.
    From 42% to 49%, there's a 30% penalty.
    From 49% to 106%, there's a 40% penalty.
    You can't get more than 106% from gear rating.

    To illustrate how this works, let's assume 10 haste rating gives you 1% haste.

    • The first 250 haste rating you get will give you 25% haste, no penalties.
    • After that, increasing your haste to 260, will only give you 25.9%, because any haste rating beyond 25% has a 10% penalty.
    • This 10% penalty means you'll need 350 haste to get 34% haste, instead of needing only 340.
    • Increasing your haste to 360, will increase it to 34.8%, because any haste rating beyond 34% has a 20% penalty.
    That sounds really cool, actually. I played SWTOR for a bit back during the pre-WoD lull and they did something like that. So everyone's gearing went along the line of... get your best stat to its cap, then your next best stat, and so on. As you geared up you could reach more caps with less gear and work down the list.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    It surprises me that people think this will have any impact on anything in the game. Right now the only reason why we have so many secondary stats is corruption, essences and azerite traits. With SL Blizzard stopped giving us stat rating from borrowed power traits. Some of the old stat rating powers are even reworked into flat percentage powers (like the dh eye beam haste buff).

    UNLESS Blizzard plans to give us a ton of secondary stats in later content patches, this will be the "big impact" of this change:
    Pretty much this. The diminishing returns system really is just a failsafe to prevent a future corruption-type-system from causing the game to break down as people attain ridiculous levels of stats and the myriad of problems that created on various fronts (pvp, m+, raids, etc - everything). Addressing that took dev time and resources. That kind of stuff doesnt ordinarily happen outside of multiple Shadowlands systems creating a perfect storm, so the proposed diminishing returns system therefore will barely effect people (as pic shows)......

    People here complaining that the sky is falling are being melodramatic clowns.
    Last edited by TyrianFC; 2020-08-26 at 12:58 PM.

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