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  1. #1

    Diminishing Returns in Secondary Stat Ratings

    after reaching 25% received from gear of any secondary stat, it will now take increasingly more rating to increase another % of that stat from your gear.

    This means that if you have, let's say, 40% haste without Corruption, when the pre-patch comes, you'll only have 38% haste.

    This penalty is as follows:
    From 0 to 25%, there's no penalty.
    From 25% to 34%, there's a 10% penalty.
    From 34% to 42%, there's a 20% penalty.
    From 42% to 49%, there's a 30% penalty.
    From 49% to 106%, there's a 40% penalty.
    You can't get more than 106% from gear rating.

    To illustrate how this works, let's assume 10 haste rating gives you 1% haste.

    • The first 250 haste rating you get will give you 25% haste, no penalties.
    • After that, increasing your haste to 260, will only give you 25.9%, because any haste rating beyond 25% has a 10% penalty.
    • This 10% penalty means you'll need 350 haste to get 34% haste, instead of needing only 340.
    • Increasing your haste to 360, will increase it to 34.8%, because any haste rating beyond 34% has a 20% penalty.

    Last edited by Mouri Kogorou; 2020-08-21 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Title

  2. #2
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    Good change, Warlocks and mages were broken so many times due to stat stacking. OP also fails to mention that this will ONLY affect rating and not passive % like bloodlust, boneshield or similar effects.
    Last edited by Nnyco; 2020-08-21 at 11:23 AM.
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  3. #3
    How does this work for stats like Arms Warrior Mastery where it's inflated into the hundreds of percent without having barely any mastery gear?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    How does this work for stats like Arms Warrior Mastery where it's inflated into the hundreds of percent without having barely any mastery gear?
    Mastery is handled differently spec to spec. DR will also impact each differently.
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  5. #5
    Brewmaster Sfidt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Good change, Warlocks and mages were broken so many times due to stat stacking. OP also fails to mention that this will ONLY affect rating and not passive % like bloodlust, boneshield or similar effects.
    Maybe it will give more chances to classes which doesn’t scale as much i.e. ele shaman. However as a warrior main I don’t feel too enthusiastic about it even though I know it is probably for the better.
    S.H.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    Mastery is handled differently spec to spec. DR will also impact each differently.
    False, it will affect the rating amount equally as Mastery is always treated as a rating first not a percentage. Edit your post, don't talk out of your ass.

  7. #7
    This will be great for specs with stat weights that are close to each other

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by thesmall001 View Post
    False, it will affect the rating amount equally as Mastery is always treated as a rating first not a percentage. Edit your post, don't talk out of your ass.
    Couldn't you be even more agressive? Everyone makes mistakes dude.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by thesmall001 View Post
    False, it will affect the rating amount equally as Mastery is always treated as a rating first not a percentage. Edit your post, don't talk out of your ass.
    Chill, bruh. Yes, it is based on similar rating, but percentages are different from spec to spec. Percentages are what were being used in this topic, so he replied accordingly.

  10. #10
    I mean maybe they should rework their secondary stat and gear progression system instead of putting on bandaid after bandaid, but okay.
    After every expansion Blizzard states: "Secondary stats are a problem.". And then they patch something, reduce the value of secondaries on gear, increase the amount of rating needed per % or whatnot. And still they are problematic.

    Stats like haste are a huge problem: without them your class feels slow and dull. Too much and scaling gets out of hand, since it affects both dot damage and cast time / gcd AND proccing effects (ppm/rppm).
    You won't notice your other stats that much, but a lack of haste will cripple you.

    They could tie procs to other stats than haste and crit. They could make mastery finally really engaging. Maybe they should just lower the exponential scaling on gear. Maybe systems like corruption are a mistake. Maybe they could just invent more engaging and interesting secondary stats.

    But after SL there will be another bandaid, because this probably won't cut it either.
    Last edited by LordVargK; 2020-08-21 at 04:20 PM.

  11. #11
    Secondary stats scaling is a “problem” because Blizzard actually has synergy between stats and playstyle.

    The more Blizzard makes secondaries have interactions with the specs itself outside of their own benefit the scaling will work like this.

    The real “fix” to this is to gut how secondary stats can interact with the spec (such as more resources, etc.) but I don’t think that would go over well.

    In classic only 1 class has a feedback loop with “secondary” stats and it’s warriors and crit for flurry uptime and also rage generation. Go figure, they are the most broken class in the game.
    Last edited by Argorwal; 2020-08-21 at 04:23 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Maybe they should just lower the exponential scaling on gear.
    Yup. And if stat weights are close, there's already diminishing returns to stacking one because that's how math works.

    Let's say 50% mastery = 50% increase in dps and 50% haste also does. Then having 100% mastery means a 100% damage increase. But splitting it to 50% mastery and 50% haste gives you a 125% increase because the 50% increases stack.

    Corruption countered that because you could stack one corruption and massively increase that one stat weight.

    Another hot take - is stacking really a bad thing? I think it's kinda fun. They do have a huge problem with haste and how it affects too much about gameplay for many specs, but other than that, stacking seems fun.

    For haste, they need to get rid of haste based resource regeneration for melee specs like dk or give those specs fillers for downtime. I played a resto druid and haste affected my gameplay a bit - it was fun to see my cast times get faster, but when my haste was low there was no downtime in my rotation, I could still cast, the casts just took a bit longer. That's fine. In contrast, playing my dk without haste was awful... hit a button, wait two seconds for rune, hit another button.

    And what's funny is that haste problem lasts through most of leveling and through all lower level content. The game is just hilariously badly designed once you get out of the mythic raiding bracket they mostly focus on. The classic example of this is: you spend your entire leveling process basically getting weaker through scaling, which is different from the old days because in the old days you were getting stronger but facing tougher enemies (which is a much better experience). Then you hit level 120, and you get a legendary, 3 essences, and 120 item levels worth of gear in a couple days. Then you go back to slow power progression. It's just really silly.

    If you play the entire leveling process and most of the gearing process with a character that feels unfinished due to lack of haste, it contributes to the feeling that none of that content really matters.
    Last edited by Scrod; 2020-08-21 at 04:31 PM.

  13. #13
    Blizz needs to get off their fucking idiotic stance of "Hurr durr we want people to build all secondaries evenly!" train. It's not fun to build secondaries evenly, usually because a class doesn't "feel" right to play until you start getting high stats in one particular area. In addition, secondaries used to be one of the most impactful choices you could male as far as gameplay-altering things players could control. They should really be pursuing them as an avenue of customization instead of trying to shoehorn everyone into flat stats.

    Stacking one stat to the heavens was some of the most fun I had back when you could realistically get into the 80-90% for stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Yup.
    This poster gets it.

  14. #14
    i think the idea behind the change was good, but the way they are implementing it is bad and the 25% limit is way too low.

    this significantly weakens any secondary stat based proc, for example trinkets.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Good change, Warlocks and mages were broken so many times due to stat stacking. OP also fails to mention that this will ONLY affect rating and not passive % like bloodlust, boneshield or similar effects.
    I miss when Blood specifically stacked Mastery (talking about Cata onwards) then there was the Dodge/Parry build in MoP because of Riposte and then Multistrike in WoD if you wanted. I find the Haste/Vers stacking to be absolutely boring as hell the past two expansions. Kinda blows to be honest.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Natureseer View Post
    i think the idea behind the change was good, but the way they are implementing it is bad and the 25% limit is way too low.

    this significantly weakens any secondary stat based proc, for example trinkets.
    well look at this as an oportunity for them to make more inetresting trinkets,like cthun tentacle one,make it do some decent dmg,today trinkets like that are crap because seconderie proc trinkets are so damn insane....this will hopefuly balance it where both are fairly close

    also i rly hope ilvl can finnaly matter more,ofc there will be items where one with haste will be better than one with mastery for some classes even if the ilvl is 5-10 higher....but when items 50 ilvls higher are a downgrade.....its silly

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Nordheim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerratedEdge252 View Post
    I miss when Blood specifically stacked Mastery (talking about Cata onwards) then there was the Dodge/Parry build in MoP because of Riposte and then Multistrike in WoD if you wanted. I find the Haste/Vers stacking to be absolutely boring as hell the past two expansions. Kinda blows to be honest.
    MoP Blood uses Death Strike > MoP Blood cant be killed now.

    I miss those days.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by thesmall001 View Post
    False, it will affect the rating amount equally as Mastery is always treated as a rating first not a percentage. Edit your post, don't talk out of your ass.
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  19. #19
    Are trinket procs or similar effects like azerite stat procs also affected by this, or is this for the base value only?

  20. #20
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Oh boy, yet another thing that is going to increase the need to sim shit instead of decreasing it like they keep saying they want.
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