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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    I’m not doubting the fun, but honestly for shadow it’s only going to be good for aoe, and I haven’t played beta yet but I feel like shadows already in a decent spot for aoe and it’s only going to be good for aoe and nothing else. No aoe, you basically don’t use the ability
    Yeah that's my only concern, which is why they should just make it OP (it's a 3 min CD anyway) so you'e gonna wanna use it over everything else. But I agree with you.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by 7empest View Post
    Kyrian for Shadow. Going Godmode every 3 minutes seems fun, remember fun? The damage tuning will likely turn out fine, the thing just got buffed, ascended blast generates insanity, and has a further damage buff conduit associated with it. Don't underestimate this one. Moving at 50% speed and just spamming the aoe explosion for 10 seconds on a dungeon pack with a big release at the end will make you daddy on the meters every 3 min for sure.
    Boon of the ascended definetly needs some tuning. I agree that spamming nova can be fun its really clunky in non aoe situations. It's not as noticeable as holy, but ascended blast replacing mind flay and smite with a spell that has a cooldown just doesn't work properly for disc and shadow. It should replace mind blast or they should remove the cooldown and tune the damage, so we don't have moments during a 3 minute godmode cooldown where we just can't press any button.

  3. #23
    Yeah, actually I have no idea how I'm supposed to use the Kyrian ability as a holy raid healer... what's the maximum healing output playstyle?

  4. #24
    So, is Venthyr Spriest a viable option?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarose View Post
    Yeah, actually I have no idea how I'm supposed to use the Kyrian ability as a holy raid healer... what's the maximum healing output playstyle?
    For now it seems like you want to use it before damage hits your group to start building stacks with ascended blast, so you can release the eruption right after the damage ticks. In between blast cooldowns you probably use "normal" healing spells. ascended Nova only giving stacks for the eruption when damaging enemies makes it hard to utilize in raids i guess and i doubt the extra stacks are worth it.
    But i really don't know if this is the right way.

    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    So, is Venthyr Spriest a viable option?
    As much as i would like to say yes its just impossible to say at this point. For now it seems like venthyr will always be viable regardless of covenant abilities for dps because of nadjias soulbind talents. But this can change any build with further tuning.
    They shuffle way to much around and tune things every build to give an answer. Korayn for example was a pretty bad choice in almost all situations, but now it seems like its above average damage wise.
    In the end probably all covenants will be viable after tuning and be close together, but you never know...

  6. #26
    Thanks that's super helpful info.

    Right now I'm looking at Venthyr. I don't suppose you've seen any holy or disc using mindgames in raids? In my head I can think of two use cases. One, to specificly chip away at a big tank hit with good timing, or two, spam it on CD for mana gen and passive healing. Either of these could work, I remember running Elemental Blast on resto shaman and casting it on CD just for the mana gen and I like having more mana so either use case works for me as long as they're at least somewhat effective.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    As much as i would like to say yes its just impossible to say at this point. For now it seems like venthyr will always be viable regardless of covenant abilities for dps because of nadjias soulbind talents. But this can change any build with further tuning.
    They shuffle way to much around and tune things every build to give an answer. Korayn for example was a pretty bad choice in almost all situations, but now it seems like its above average damage wise.
    In the end probably all covenants will be viable after tuning and be close together, but you never know...
    I see what you mean. Thanks for the response though!

    Does the Mindgames ability deal a portion of damage regardless of whether the healing counter-effect is triggered?

  8. #28
    at the very least it should always be consumed as effective healing so it won't ever be a "dead" button, however I imagine there's a real possibility that the numbers will never be mind blowing. I'm pretty sure the most consistent return from the button will be its insanity generation.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    So, is Venthyr Spriest a viable option?
    Viable? Every Covenant is viable. Depends on if you want BiS or not. Venthyr isn't it.

    I just checked it yesterday and the Venthyr ability does about 2-3% overall damage for a pure ST ability. That's abysmal. Mindgames is maybe the worst of all Covenant skills for PvE. One idea to change it is to keep it's recent nature, but add something like: if the enemy does not heal or damage during that time, after 10 seconds deal half of the damage / healing it could have done - Mindgames just needs a component to not make it a useless button in PvE.

    Unholy Nova is barely better. I find it funny that the Kyrian ability - which interrupts and hinders the entire Shadow gameplay - is still the best / second best option next to Nightfae, because Necrolords and Venthyr are so bad in comparison.
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  10. #30
    Mindagames damage got buffed, so it made it in to disc's prime choice for raids, and a close second for m+. Still horrible for shadow, but all of the abilities are. It looks like shadow will be choosing their covenant based on the soulbinds, not the abilities.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Echeyakee View Post
    Mindagames damage got buffed, so it made it in to disc's prime choice for raids, and a close second for m+. Still horrible for shadow, but all of the abilities are. It looks like shadow will be choosing their covenant based on the soulbinds, not the abilities.
    Which points to one of the main problems with balacing the priest abilities. They need to balance a damage spec with two healing specs, across M+, raids and PVP. Mindgames already fill a few niches in the power matrix, and will be hard to balance out.

    The newly datamined unholy nova looks promising, but if tuned too high runs the risk of just replacing mindgames for disc.

    Given the situation I have a hard time seeing how Mindgames can be tuned to be competative damage wise for shadow, even in pure single target. If you take Venthyr as shadow you need to be of the mindset that the damage absorb and healing provides utility, and lean a bit towards using mindgames that way when you play. Just like you can interrupt a heavy hitting cast, or stun other heavy hitting abilities in general, mindgames can provide a similar effect in mitigating damage that also works on CC-immune mobs and bosses.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by NeximEU View Post
    Which points to one of the main problems with balacing the priest abilities. They need to balance a damage spec with two healing specs, across M+, raids and PVP. Mindgames already fill a few niches in the power matrix, and will be hard to balance out.

    The newly datamined unholy nova looks promising, but if tuned too high runs the risk of just replacing mindgames for disc.

    Given the situation I have a hard time seeing how Mindgames can be tuned to be competative damage wise for shadow, even in pure single target. If you take Venthyr as shadow you need to be of the mindset that the damage absorb and healing provides utility, and lean a bit towards using mindgames that way when you play. Just like you can interrupt a heavy hitting cast, or stun other heavy hitting abilities in general, mindgames can provide a similar effect in mitigating damage that also works on CC-immune mobs and bosses.
    I think the issue we priests have is that each spec actually wants to do something different, but our covenant abilities does not really support it. Shadow wants to do damage, holy wants to heal, discipline wants to do combination of both.

    What could actually work in my opinion is having ability similar Divine Star/Halo talents. Having an ability which either deals damage or heal depending on target you hit, would make it way more flexible for each spec. Shadow would have primary new tool for damage, but could contribute to offhealing when needed, holy would have tool for healing and finaly would be able to contribute to damage (which is one of the biggest weakness of the spec) and discipline would have another button which naturaly fits into spec mechanics. Just look how popular Concentrated Flame Essence was amongs classes.

    Instead we got an abilities which mostly try to do both, but only spec which can use it to full potential is discipline.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    I think the issue we priests have is that each spec actually wants to do something different, but our covenant abilities does not really support it. Shadow wants to do damage, holy wants to heal, discipline wants to do combination of both.

    What could actually work in my opinion is having ability similar Divine Star/Halo talents. Having an ability which either deals damage or heal depending on target you hit, would make it way more flexible for each spec. Shadow would have primary new tool for damage, but could contribute to offhealing when needed, holy would have tool for healing and finaly would be able to contribute to damage (which is one of the biggest weakness of the spec) and discipline would have another button which naturaly fits into spec mechanics. Just look how popular Concentrated Flame Essence was amongs classes.

    Instead we got an abilities which mostly try to do both, but only spec which can use it to full potential is discipline.
    What you're describing sounds a lot like the shaman Kyrian totem. Which together with the Elysian Dirge conduit imo looks to be one of the best designed abilities for any hybrid, their necrolord ability is also split between specs in a good way (mechanically, maybe not numerically). I think that could serve as inspiration for more hybrids, and you could easily see how the kyrian example could be applied to Unholy nova if it also applied a HOT instead of a direct heal, where damage abilities or heals could be enhanced in some way when you damage/heal the effected targets.
    Then again you have the shaman Venthyr chainheal/lightning combo ability, where the long cast time makes it stick out as odd for enhancement, and the Night Fae ability which is primarily damage and looks bad for resto. So other hybrids seems to suffer from similar problems priests have.

    To answer the OP, with the latest build the Mindbender legendary, and how Night Fae reduces it's cooldown, Night Fae sould be absolute miles ahead for shadow for all content. But the current state of Shadowflame Prism won't make it to live.

    Edit: Even so, Night Fae for any group content should be a solid choice, because there will always be someone who should benefit a lot from CRD on a big cooldown. They also have reasonable soulbinds and a much needed mobility ability for priests.
    Last edited by NeximEU; 2020-09-10 at 12:45 PM.

  14. #34
    What about Venthyr's Thrill Seeker? The covenant as a whole is not particularly great for PvE but this soulbind ability itself looks incredibly powerful, especially early when haste levels are low.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Borrak View Post
    What about Venthyr's Thrill Seeker? The covenant as a whole is not particularly great for PvE but this soulbind ability itself looks incredibly powerful, especially early when haste levels are low.
    Nadjia is pretty amazing for every damage specc regardless ability you get from venthyr. It's not only Thrillseeker, but the choice between 4% single target damage or 15% increase for food, flask and weapon enchant. Weapon enchants which for the first time (i think) scale really well the better our gear becomes.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Priests have one of the most amazing short cool down movement speed talents out of all the classes I think. being able to bubble yourself and getting that short bursts of speed all the time is quite a lot if you pick that talent hook that talent
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    Necrolords looks like a AoE damage/healing CD that you can't go wrong with.
    I still have nightmares of Halo (30y) pulling extras in 5mans, being almost useless because of this. I'm afraid necro's unholy nova (40y) will suffer from the same issue, or even worse.

  18. #38
    It should get the same properties as Moonkin's Starfall and only affect mobs who you are in combat with.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    I still have nightmares of Halo (30y) pulling extras in 5mans, being almost useless because of this. I'm afraid necro's unholy nova (40y) will suffer from the same issue, or even worse.
    It has much smaller aoe, something like 15 yards or so. The 40 yards range was a datamining artifact. But they are working on possibly changing it, but we have no info on that.

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