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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    I used to think political co-existence between the left and right was possible. But the New Left (or Woke Left or whatever) has changed my view of that. At least here in the States. Parts of Europe seem a lot more sensible in that regard.
    I believe that's a mere trend that will fade.
    Like hippies that eventually got jobs and joined the suit and tie workers.
    ----
    Labels...never believed in them much.

  2. #202
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I believe that's a mere trend that will fade.
    Like hippies that eventually got jobs and joined the suit and tie workers.
    ----
    Labels...never believed in them much.
    I don't think either of you 2 know what a trend is.
    Communism will win.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    I don't think either of you 2 know what a trend is.
    You're a good reason why people give up on political beliefs.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Antifa wore masks before the pandemic.

    On topic, that Obama was going to be a good president.
    Obama is by far a million times better than Trump.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Obama is by far a million times better than Trump.
    That's not a high bar to clear.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    That's not a high bar to clear.
    Except Trump has been shown to be the worst president in history, and Obama was in the upper tier of presidents, and Trump is worse than the one that only lived for a month during his presidency, named William Henry Harrison.

  7. #207
    Herald of the Titans Katie N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerilis View Post
    I take it you have a viable alternative in mind?
    The way we do it here.

  8. #208
    I used to believe in the death penalty. I remember drawing a cartoon of Jesus in a jail cell saying something along the lines of "what do you mean I can only do 25-life for peoples' sins?!"
    "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    -H.L. Mencken, 1920

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    I used to believe in the death penalty. I remember drawing a cartoon of Jesus in a jail cell saying something along the lines of "what do you mean I can only do 25-life for peoples' sins?!"
    I still struggle mightily with that one when it comes to repeat sex offenders, pedophiles and so on. I don't know what the right answer is on it. They're such vile human beings, that I wonder how best to deal with it. Waters get muddied then as far as who's actually guilty and who's not etc.

  10. #210
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    Im getting the idea people havent even bothered reading terf stuff. Some of these comments xD
    In case this is directed at me, this wasn’t my point. Do you think the far right has an accurate definition of feminism? I don’t think they do... I think to them, feminist is no different than cunt... I’m pointing out, that in any other circumstance, anyone calling them selfs feminist, would be ridiculed into oblivion. I found an instance of that not being the case... care to guess why that is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I believe that's a mere trend that will fade.
    Like hippies that eventually got jobs and joined the suit and tie workers.
    ----
    Labels...never believed in them much.
    This is like people saying they don’t see color, when discussing race...



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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Read that sentence. Read it again. Think about the issues as different factions in Game of Thrones.
    I think the last episode has tainted your view of the show...

    What I was trying to point out, is that there is a “faction” calling it self feminist, that another “faction“ detesting feminist at it’s core, is will to side with... there is one overlap that makes the blind rage over familist disappear.

    On a similar note, I had an enlightening experience recently. I think I watched a demented right winger bitch about how new She’ra didn’t have big enough boobs and wasn’t like the loud, big hair version from the 80s. Within a short time of watching Ru Paul’s drag race. I think the big insecurity about far right YouTube, is that their vision of what a woman should look like, is identical to the vision of a Drag Queen.
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-09-04 at 01:59 AM.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I still struggle mightily with that one when it comes to repeat sex offenders, pedophiles and so on. I don't know what the right answer is on it. They're such vile human beings, that I wonder how best to deal with it. Waters get muddied then as far as who's actually guilty and who's not etc.
    The way I think of it is to first ask what the purpose of the justice system is in regards to the worst offenders.

    Is it rehabilitation? In the case of the average criminal, it should be I think, but for the most egregious crimes? For those that repeatedly flout the law? For violent extremists? Most people will agree that there are some people that we should not trust to re-enter society, so for the very worst offenders it cannot be rehabilitation.

    What about punishment? We have punishments for crimes as a deterrent to criminal activity and as a penalty for breaking society's rules. And generally, the severity of the punishment increases with that of the crime- but we also have an 8th amendment forbidding cruel and unusual punishments (or the equivalent I assume most other developed nations have). The founders understood the base instincts of humankind, including the desire for vengeance, and made sure that those who find themselves accused or convicted of crimes still have rights- that even those who had harmed society would still have protection against the angry mob. Catering to our basest instincts does not make a moral or just society. So the justice system cannot be about punishing the guilty, for the 8th amendment precludes the severity of the punishment from scaling with the severity of the crime when it comes to the worst offenses. Additionally the death penalty is not a deterrent- no would-be felon has ever said to themselves "25-life would be just fine for committing this crime, but the death penalty? Meh...I'd better not."

    So if the worst criminal offenders won't be rehabilitated, and are protected from cruel and unusual punishments, then what is the justice system for when it comes to those individuals? For me, it's about protecting society from those that have proven that they will not or cannot abide by the rules of society. Once a person is incarcerated for life, the purpose of the justice system has been met. To ask more- to ask that they be killed by the state- would be to cater to the basest instincts of society out of vengeance, and that is not what a moral or just society should do.

    So yes, I can see the perspective that pedophiles, mass murderers, etc. don't deserve life. But for me it's not about what they do or don't deserve. Whether or not a murder *deserves* to be put to death (which is a subjective matter to begin with) is irrelevant- it's about what the purpose of the justice system should be, and what kind of country we want to be.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    -H.L. Mencken, 1920

  12. #212
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    The way I think of it is to first ask what the purpose of the justice system is in regards to the worst offenders.

    Is it rehabilitation? In the case of the average criminal, it should be I think, but for the most egregious crimes? For those that repeatedly flout the law? For violent extremists? Most people will agree that there are some people that we should not trust to re-enter society, so for the very worst offenders it cannot be rehabilitation.

    What about punishment? We have punishments for crimes as a deterrent to criminal activity and as a penalty for breaking society's rules. And generally, the severity of the punishment increases with that of the crime- but we also have an 8th amendment forbidding cruel and unusual punishments (or the equivalent I assume most other developed nations have). The founders understood the base instincts of humankind, including the desire for vengeance, and made sure that those who find themselves accused or convicted of crimes still have rights- that even those who had harmed society would still have protection against the angry mob. Catering to our basest instincts does not make a moral or just society. So the justice system cannot be about punishing the guilty, for the 8th amendment precludes the severity of the punishment from scaling with the severity of the crime when it comes to the worst offenses. Additionally the death penalty is not a deterrent- no would-be felon has ever said to themselves "25-life would be just fine for committing this crime, but the death penalty? Meh...I'd better not."

    So if the worst criminal offenders won't be rehabilitated, and are protected from cruel and unusual punishments, then what is the justice system for when it comes to those individuals? For me, it's about protecting society from those that have proven that they will not or cannot abide by the rules of society. Once a person is incarcerated for life, the purpose of the justice system has been met. To ask more- to ask that they be killed by the state- would be to cater to the basest instincts of society out of vengeance, and that is not what a moral or just society should do.

    So yes, I can see the perspective that pedophiles, mass murderers, etc. don't deserve life. But for me it's not about what they do or don't deserve. Whether or not a murder *deserves* to be put to death (which is a subjective matter to begin with) is irrelevant- it's about what the purpose of the justice system should be, and what kind of country we want to be.
    Every criminal can be fixed with enough knowledge so killing them after they have already been arrested is basically just an act of petty vengeance and barbarism. Permanently judging someone based on their darkest moment without a chance for redemption is incredibly unkind and uncharitable.

    With that said we currently don't know how to fix the craziest criminals so we still need life sentences up until some point in the future where we can reasonably verify that a person has been rehabilitated and isn't a threat to society.
    Last edited by PC2; 2020-09-04 at 02:56 AM.
    -------
    A problem consists of a conflict between two ideas. Problems are soluble.
    Fallacies: Ad hominem, Generalizing history to predetermine the future.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    In case this is directed at me, this wasn’t my point. Do you think the far right has an accurate definition of feminism? I don’t think they do... I think to them, feminist is no different than cunt... I’m pointing out, that in any other circumstance, anyone calling them selfs feminist, would be ridiculed into oblivion. I found an instance of that not being the case... care to guess why that is?

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is like people saying they don’t see color, when discussing race...



    - - - Updated - - -



    I think the last episode has tainted your view of the show...

    What I was trying to point out, is that there is a “faction” calling it self feminist, that another “faction“ detesting feminist at it’s core, is will to side with... there is one overlap that makes the blind rage over familist disappear.

    On a similar note, I had an enlightening experience recently. I think I watched a demented right winger bitch about how new She’ra didn’t have big enough boobs and wasn’t like the loud, big hair version from the 80s. Within a short time of watching Ru Paul’s drag race. I think the big insecurity about far right YouTube, is that their vision of what a woman should look like, is identical to the vision of a Drag Queen.
    Nah dont worry its not directed at you. You are rather chill, the people here on the other hand (;╹⌓╹)

  14. #214
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    “Evidence”. You mean CNN and other leftist news isn’t reporting it? Of course they aren’t.
    "News that I don't like is faaaaake!"

    This shtick is getting old muto.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Yeah okay. I’ve watched at least 25 protest and riots videos and half the people are not wearing them.
    I've watched at least 50 protests and riots videos and half the people are wearing them.

    I've also go the same citations as you have.

  15. #215
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    You're a good reason why people give up on political beliefs.
    Yeah, nothing like not believing in anything. Fuck improving society, I suppose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Except Trump has been shown to be the worst president in history, and Obama was in the upper tier of presidents, and Trump is worse than the one that only lived for a month during his presidency, named William Henry Harrison.
    When even those in the upper "ranks" are terrible, you really got a problem.
    Communism will win.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Being part of the working class does not mean you get to contribute to the opression of other people.
    Contribute the opression of other people? What are you on about?

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I still struggle mightily with that one when it comes to repeat sex offenders, pedophiles and so on. I don't know what the right answer is on it. They're such vile human beings, that I wonder how best to deal with it. Waters get muddied then as far as who's actually guilty and who's not etc.
    There's a much simpler way to think about this.

    Are you okay with giving the state the power to take a human life (and we are not talking about use of force in an armed conflict or self defense or to neutralize an imminent threat to public safety)?

    Taking into account institutional corruption, bias, procedural failure, racism and just human error. Are you in that scenario comfortable with giving the state power over life and death?

    I'm not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  18. #218
    Actually, since Endus has me so pissed off right now, I'll say this, too... it's people like him that talk the talk but don't accomplish anything that is the reason why feminism still needs to be a thing. If people would celebrate their own holiness less and actually DID change the world, we'd be in a better place. But hey, go ahead and wave your flag if that makes you happy. Doesn't accomplish jack shit, but who am I to judge, eh? At least you tried. E for effort... Pathetic lip service.
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    You have got to be joking! You can go infract my ass, this is unbelievable. Who let the clowns out? And of course there is no fucking list of mods to contact, you have to be lucky that someone is online, too.
    Last edited by Slant; 2020-09-04 at 12:08 PM.
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  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    There's a much simpler way to think about this.

    Are you okay with giving the state the power to take a human life (and we are not talking about use of force in an armed conflict or self defense or to neutralize an imminent threat to public safety)?

    Taking into account institutional corruption, bias, procedural failure, racism and just human error. Are you in that scenario comfortable with giving the state power over life and death?

    I'm not.
    Pretty much where I’m at. As I said, the struggle is more with the people who are guilty, but I just cannot give so much power to the Governments. I don’t believe in less Government, but I do believe too much power can corrupt a system.

  20. #220
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Considering discussion keeps rounding forbidden topics, this is closed.
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