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  1. #301
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    That's not exactly evidence that there's something wrong with his soul, especially considering that he did understand Arthas needed to die regardless of his personal feelings. This questline also happens after his soul is freed by the looks of it, making that a factor. Arthas is already dead.

    Doesn't sound like damage to me. Only personal ties. Terenas was the same way. Jaina still is the same way. Even in BFA did she have ties with him, muddying her perception, and I doubt that storyline is ending anytime soon.
    I didn't think so at the time, either; I just chalked it up to Uther being sentimental in light of Arthas' death. But new information has a way of making one take a second look at previous convictions or judgments. Like I said previously, I don't think this is precisely "damage" per se, but it could be construed as out of character within context. It's also of note that Uther also says he feels a "darkness" in his own spirit in those very lines of dialogue - which could be said to be quite telling in light of what we now know. Perhaps what he felt was his own incompleteness, a version of the literal wound he later displays in Bastion?
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  2. #302
    Epic! Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by literallysame View Post
    So with this image
    I strongly believe we will help Uther reclaim his other half of his soul. This could be the reason for the update to his tomb.
    Where'd the other half of his soul go to? Somewhere in Lordaeron?

    And.... I'm sorry but 'I just sawed this soul in half!'

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    I don't think Arthas getting thrown into the Maw was part of the Jailer's plan. More likely it will end up being part of his downfall when we end up working with Arthas to take him down.
    And Arthas takes his place as the Jailer of the Maw
    Last edited by Bwonsamdi the Dead; 2020-08-27 at 08:25 PM.

    New to Mafia, sorry if I mess up!
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  3. #303
    So, basically, Uther's soul was broken into two, as we see it in the video. One part absorbed into the Frostmourne, the other picked up by Devos.

    And that's why Uther's ascension was impossible, because he wasn't complete and was wounded.

    I even dare to speculate that this was part of Jailer's plan to start chaos in the Bastion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    Where'd the other half of his soul go to? Somewhere in Lordaeron?

    And.... I'm sorry but 'I just sawed this soul in half!'
    One half into the Frostmourne and the other Devos picked up.

  4. #304
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    What do you mean, that Sylvanas had anything to do with Arthas being thrown to the Maw? She didn't know the Jailer then.
    No, I mean that the machinery of Death was broken by repeated actions - some done by Sylvanas, some by Uther/Devos, and some by other parties entirely. I kind of think of it like this:

    1.) The Jailer arranges for the demons to acquire Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination, putting a portion of the Maw's power (the Jailer's power) into the physical universe beyond his cage. This is the first attack on the machinery, which shudders but keeps going.
    2.) The Scourge ramps up its actions, with each soul claimed another strike against the machine - a flurry of blows that individually can be shrugged off, but collectively start to cause gears to slip and cogs to jam.
    3.) Uther and Devos toss Arthas into the Maw, completing the circuit and opening or widening a fissure between the Maw and the physical universe. The Arbiter cries out in pain and the metacosm spasms in agony.
    4.) Sylvanas shatters the Soulcage, delivering a final and lasting blow to the Shadowlands (perhaps unbeknownst to her at the time) and causing the machine to finally seize up and stop working completely, the Maw opens and starts hoovering in souls with lusty abandon.

    That's basically the shape of the theory.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    Why are you people ignoring the obvious reason AKA the weapon containing the power of the Maw "the agent of the Maw" if you will (by Devos' own words) influencing the world of the dead? Devos literally fucking says it.
    I don't see your point. If death broke during Legion then I can't really see how Frostmourne (a.k.a. the sword with the power of the Maw) can be important here.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I didn't think so at the time, either; I just chalked it up to Uther being sentimental in light of Arthas' death. But new information has a way of making one take a second look at previous convictions or judgments. Like I said previously, I don't think this is precisely "damage" per se, but it could be construed as out of character within context. It's also of note that Uther also says he feels a "darkness" in his own spirit in those very lines of dialogue - which could be said to be quite telling in light of what we now know. Perhaps what he felt was his own incompleteness, a version of the literal wound he later displays in Bastion?
    Yes, which makes sense, but it doesn't feel like its always been planned. That's what I mean here. If you're going to "recontextualize" stuff you gotta make it seamless and this just seems way too obvious to me. Like yeah obviously in Wrath, Uther was whole. Back then things were different in many, many ways, but I feel like they could have done better in this transition.

    Part of all this is subjective. I don't like this glorification of the Scourge that they're doing. I don't like it at all. Sure, it will be a fun expansion, but it feels far too fanfictiony for my tastes. I know that WoW has always been retcon central, for many years, but now it's hitting lore that I find to be the best part of all of Warcraft and I guess that hits harder.
    Last edited by Goldielocks; 2020-08-27 at 08:32 PM.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    It's also around the time that Frostmourne was reforged
    We defeated Ysera with our artifacts, so it's reasonable to assume that Frostmourne was already reforged before the machine broke.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I mean I kind of agree with Devos i.e. Arthas and the Jailer having agents outside of his prison-realm. It was kind of dumb of the Kyrians to ignore her very real warnings, but they're also pretty dogmatic and set in their way. This is a pronounced plot-point in the Bastion storyline.
    devos should be our ally and not a villain!

  9. #309
    After this cinematic creating so many new questions, from frostmourne getting part of Uther's soul, to Uther and Devos overriding the Arbiter to send Arthas into the Maw ... it got me thinking ... how are we not going to get a Sylvanas one?!
    And I'm no Sylvanas super fanboy, I understand people feel she is overexposed (I like her character though). But come on! If Arthas killed Sylvanas with frostmourne, did anything similar happen to her soul? How come when she died in Icecrown she went to the Maw? Did her actions really warrant it at that point?
    Ohhhh wait ... that's when the val'kyr appeared and made the deal with her... Could Helya's/Jailer's val'kyr have taken her there like Uther and Devos did Arthas? To manipulate her? What did she see? What did the Jailer ask of her? So many questions about her story now!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    devos should be our ally and not a villain!
    Yeah I agree. I liked Devos.
    Art on https://twitter.com/HugoFernArt (includes wow fanart)

  10. #310
    There are so many questions about the Afterlife in Shadowlands. Especially with the Undead. I mean what about Derek Proudmoore? How long has he been on the ground of the sea. Did he spend a lot of time in the Shadowlands and then just got yeeted back?

    Do people loose their memory again if they get resurrected? Do they forget everything from the Shadowlands? I don't know. I feel Blizzard wrote themselves into a corner by touching the whole "Afterlive" thing.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugnomo View Post
    After this cinematic creating so many new questions, from frostmourne getting part of Uther's soul, to Uther and Devos overriding the Arbiter to send Arthas into the Maw ... it got me thinking ... how are we not going to get a Sylvanas one?!
    And I'm no Sylvanas super fanboy, I understand people feel she is overexposed (I like her character though). But come on! If Arthas killed Sylvanas with frostmourne, did anything similar happen to her soul? How come when she died in Icecrown she went to the Maw? Did her actions really warrant it at that point?
    Ohhhh wait ... that's when the val'kyr appeared and made the deal with her... Could Helya's/Jailer's val'kyr have taken her there like Uther and Devos did Arthas? To manipulate her? What did she see? What did the Jailer ask of her? So many questions about her story now!!

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    Yeah I agree. I liked Devos.
    she wanted to intervene! a monster runs free with powers of the maw killing and stealing souls and no one heard her! she is right!

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    she wanted to intervene! a monster runs free with powers of the maw killing and stealing souls and no one heard her! she is right!
    Monsters eventually die and the arbiter then judges them, what was foolish of the Kyrian was not to get Maldraxxus involved to teach the scourge who is boss.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    devos should be our ally and not a villain!
    I agree! It's annoying that no one in WoW is allowed to grieve, to feel righteous anger or demand justice lest he be called misguided, confused or consumed by vengeance. Very black and white way of thinking.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Monsters eventually die and the arbiter then judges them, what was foolish of the Kyrian was not to get Maldraxxus involved to teach the scourge who is boss.
    Now Sylvanas one of the monsters that Arthas created is helping to destroy Shadowlands and kel'thuzad too!! devos was right!

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    I agree! It's annoying that no one in WoW is allowed to grieve, to feel righteous anger or demand justice lest he be called misguided, confused or consumed by vengeance. Very black and white way of thinking.
    It is because it runs contrary to their job, they are just there to ferry souls being impartial, this entire fiasco is a very good example why the memories need t go, but before they are purged they need to be evaluated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    Now Sylvanas one of the monsters that Arthas created is helping to destroy Shadowlands and kel'thuzad too!! devos was right!
    Devos serves the maw in the end, the only thing she was correct about is that memories should be investigated, but they should still not be kept.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    We defeated Ysera with our artifacts, so it's reasonable to assume that Frostmourne was already reforged before the machine broke.
    Doesn't it look like Elune intervened at the end and retrieved her soul?

    Also there's the possibility that reforging the blades wasn't the exact moment, but the empowering them with 1000s of souls, maybe some bigger souls like Argus... Or it was his death in general that did it lol

  17. #317
    Scarab Lord
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    I loved the WC3 background music when Uther is talking at the beginning, and the snippets of Invincible playing throughout the short.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Devos is an odd case. She doesn't feel irredeemable; her second in command Lysonia is the one who takes that spot.
    Devos set it all up though, she wanted reforms, but most certainly the wrong ones, it sucks for the Kyrian to loose their memory, but these have to go, since they absolutely need to be impartial in their job, you can't have someone drop a soul into the maw because they believed they deserved it, it is not their job to judge.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannihilate View Post
    For all we know, it was THIS act that "broke the machine of death" in the first place, putting the Arbiter in a coma and allowing The Jailer to start amassing power by taking all the souls for himself.
    I believe that the Lich King was/is the cornerstone of the plan to brake the order in Shadowlands. As we see in this very cinematic- "this dark agent runs free on a mortal world, with the power of the Maw itself", that bit took place before(or at the very least durring) WotLK. The events were set into motion long before Legion. Arthas is abso-fvckin-lutely going to play a HUGE ROLE in the culmination of this expansion.

  20. #320
    So from what I gather, some Void presence is trapped into the Maw and the Light reigns supreme over the Shadowlands? That's what the Bastion lines made me feel.

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