[Spoilers] Shadowlands: Afterlives Cinematic Discussion

[username993720]

Indeed. But considering what he has done with that power, his place would have been in Revendreth at the very least if not directly the Maw. Would you entrust the protection of anything to Gul'dan?

Would you entrust it to Vashj, Death Knight Alexandros or Kel'thuzad? They've all done bad deeds in their lives.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

As opposed to Draka being portrayed more or less as a Garona clone, it would have been cooler to see Lady Vashj, or literally any other lore character instead of Draka, in 'Afterlives' instead.

[Frontenac]

Would you entrust it to Vashj, Death Knight Alexandros or Kel'thuzad? They've all done bad deeds in their lives.

They did. And for what I've learned about KT in Maldraxxus... Well. As for Vashj, yes, she's a villain, and I don't know what happened with her before she was sent to Maldraxxus. One thing for her though: she is loyal. She was loyal to Azshara, she was loyal to Illidan. Gul'dan was only loyal to himself. As for Mograine, he had no free will as a Death Knight, so we can't blame him for what he has done for the Lich King. In life, Mograine was the Ashbringer, a great leader and certainly trustworthy.

[Dravec]

That was on purpose, of course. They are showing that she is using her training.



So what?



How original. Another insecure sexist. And don't tell me you're not because you wouldn't be spelling "woman" that way if you weren't.



She's dead! What can she do about them? Years may have passed when we see her in Maldraxxus. She moved on. Why should she talk about them when she cannot do anything about them. For all she knows, Thrall (Go'el, for her) is dead.



I would bet my last penny that you would have complained anyway. Vashj is a generic villain. She would be twirling her moustache if she were a man. Instead of complaining, maybe you boys should be happy to see a character (well two characters if/when she meets Thrall) get some development.



Again, since it has been said elsewhere, the Covenants do not look for classes. They are looking for character traits. All these characters are dead. What were their function or profession in life is now meaningless. Their traits of character are what is important. The Necrolords are not looking for people who were warriors in life. They are looking for strong souls that showed resolve, determination, resilience, ambition, greatness in life. Draka showed all these traits. Considered weak and worthless, exiled from her clan, she overcame all obstacles before her, became respected as a warrior and huntress and married the leader of a great orcish clan. With Durotan, she opposed the evil that was Gul'dan and the Shadow Council, got betrayed and died will defending her son with all of her strength. That is stuff for Maldraxxus.



Maybe. But they wouldn't work for the story they want to tell. Why do you think Thrall is in the Shadowlands? That's no coincidence.

Lmao, your entire post reeks of a Blizzard apologist. Reusing the same animation is lazy, there is no excuse.

Yeah, I’m super sexist and hate women. That’s what white knights always jump to when someone criticizes women. Pro tip: it’s possible for shit female characters to exist, and there is a lot of them these days. Ignore I said Vashj or Zaela would have been better.

Draka is dead. So you would think as a mother and wife she would want to know if her family is dead or not. Especially the child she died to protect. But nah, caring about your family is the work of the patriarchy. Yeah bullshit. Any normal person would want to know what happened to their family if they were attacked just before their death.

Also, that trait shit is utter nonsense. If it’s arbitrary shit like that (it’s not), then why is Vashj there? Draka was none of those things either. She never became some great warrior, she was weak. She became more self-confident, and guess why? Only some fellow named Durotan helping her, but she forgot he exists apparently.

If it was such arbitrary low barrier to entry bullshit to get into Maldraxxus, then almost every Warcraft character ever would be there.

[username993720]

They did. And for what I've learned about KT in Maldraxxus... Well. As for Vashj, yes, she's a villain, and I don't know what happened with her before she was sent to Maldraxxus. One thing for her though: she is loyal. She was loyal to Azshara, she was loyal to Illidan. Gul'dan was only loyal to himself. As for Mograine, he had no free will as a Death Knight, so we can't blame him for what he has done for the Lich King. In life, Mograine was the Ashbringer, a great leader and certainly trustworthy.

Well, Nazgrim was loyal to Garrosh to the death. it didn't land him there.

And you can say the same about Arthas - his mind was not his own. His soul was taken by Frostmourne and his mind was in constant struggle with Nerz'hul. So, does that mean he also belongs in Maldraxxus? If it was Alexandros' previous life that was taken into consideration when sending him to a covenant, then he would probably be sent to bastion, like Uther, as a Paladin.

[Frontenac]

Lmao, your entire post reeks of a Blizzard apologist. Reusing the same animation is lazy, there is no excuse.

It's not lazy if it's for a narrative purpose.

Yeah, I’m super sexist and hate women. That’s what white knights always jump to when someone criticizes women. Pro tip: it’s possible for shit female characters to exist, and there is a lot of them these days. Ignore I said Vashj or Zaela would have been better.

Yeah, yeah. It's like those guys who went "Hey, I'm no racist, I like Nat King Cole! But that n* should remain on his own train wagon..." You wouldn't even mention the fact that Draka is a "womine" if it didn't bother you.

Draka is dead. So you would think as a mother and wife she would want to know if her family is dead or not. Especially the child she died to protect.

She saw Durotan die, she had no reason to believe Thrall would survive since those Blackrocks traitors were sent to kill them all.

But nah, caring about your family is the work of the patriarchy. Yeah bullshit.

Yeah, bullshit. Then why are you bringing that in?

Any normal person would want to know what happened to their family if they were attacked just before their death.

Like I said, she already knew they were most likely dead. But let's say that you are right. What makes you believe she didn't want to know? The action shown in the cinematic happens years after her death. There's nothing she can do about them. What was Durotan's fate has been after death? She has no mean to know. Same with Thrall. Unless she met some dead orc who told her that Thrall, son of Durotan, is Warchief of the Horde now. But then again, even if she knew all that, what can she do about it? Nothing. Once her mourning was done, she moved on with her afterlife. And haven't you heard of the expression "until death do us part?" There's a moment when you must stop complaining about your fate and move on.

Also, that trait shit is utter nonsense.

Tell that to Blizzard.

"The Necrolord Covenant resides in Maldraxxus and is responsible for the determined and the powerful. Powerful souls — physically, emotionally, and even mentally — are valued here as military guardians to aid in the fight."

"The Necrolords value power above all — those determined and willing to serve the Covenant, who are ruthless, unyielding, unrelenting. "

- https://blizzardwatch.com/2020/04/15...w-shadowlands/

Nothing says that the souls sent there were skilled warriors in life. Only that the best of them become skilled soldiers for the protection of the Shadowlands. Just like Draka was not a rogue in life but became one in the afterlife.

If it’s arbitrary shit like that (it’s not),

Well, all covenants are arbitrary. That's why they have an Arbiter (d'uh) who decides if a soul is more suited for that covenant or another. I mean, someone could have a link to nature, be selfless, full of resolve and wanting to become the best he can be in his craft. You would think that a paladin like Alexandros Mograine would end up in Bastion. Yet, the Arbiter sent him in Maldraxxus because his courage and resolve were needed in there.

then why is Vashj there? Draka was none of those things either. She never became some great warrior, she was weak. She became more self-confident, and guess why? Only some fellow named Durotan helping her, but she forgot he exists apparently.

She was weak, and she overcame that. You should look at her backstory again. That resolve, that courage and strength of heart is precisely what Maldraxxus is searching for.

If it was such arbitrary low barrier to entry bullshit to get into Maldraxxus, then almost every Warcraft character ever would be there.

You make it sound like being sent to Maldraxxus is a stroll in the park. Not everyone sent there end up as a soldier, you know. The souls are severely tested and those deemed too weak are sent to become fuel for the Necrolords' war machine. And if the Shadowlands needs an army to defend itself, then I suppose the Arbiter would send plenty of souls in Maldraxxus.

[DeltrusDisc]

It's interesting how Kyrestia the Firstborne is so harsh, rigid, and unforgiving in the trailer, and yet in the dungeon she's somehow portrayed as this meek, kind, and empathetic soul after Devos' death.

It all feels like neither perspective is the truth.

Yo... spoiler tag brother.

[Frontenac]

Well, Nazgrim was loyal to Garrosh to the death. it didn't land him there.

Where did he end up? And your question was not why would Vashj end up in Maldraxxus, but if I would entrust it's protection to her. To which I said that at least she was loyal to those she had served in life. I never said that loyalty is a reason why she was sent there instead of another covenant. Besides, loyalty must be expected from any member of its respective covenant. Felons in life were probably sent first to Revendreth. But that's speculation

And you can say the same about Arthas - his mind was not his own. His soul was taken by Frostmourne and his mind was in constant struggle with Nerz'hul. So, does that mean he also belongs in Maldraxxus?

Well, we may never know, since Uther and Devos threw him in the Maw before he was judged by the Arbiter. Still, Arthas' mind was quite his own when he destroyed Stratholm, disobeyed a direct order from his King and father, betrayed the mercenaries he hired, destroyed the fleet, took Frostmourne and it's curse upon himself and showed no remorse when Muradin "died". So if he's not going directly to the Maw, he would certainly have made a trip to Revendreth. And yes, after that, I wouldn't have been surprised if he ended up in Maldraxxus.

[Syegfryed]

Yeah, yeah. It's like those guys who went "Hey, I'm no racist, I like Nat King Cole! But that n* should remain on his own train wagon..." You wouldn't even mention the fact that Draka is a "womine" if it didn't bother you.

saying that everyone o say Draka don't make sense to be there is sexism is just a redflag to disregard opinions like you are in twitter, there is far better characters who fit maldaxxus more, male or female, so, lets say you think Zaela would not fit way more than drakka are you sexist?

She saw Durotan die, she had no reason to believe Thrall would survive since those Blackrocks traitors were sent to kill them all.

thats not how it works, even if she knew they were dead, she would want to know where they were and see then

Like I said, she already knew they were most likely dead. But let's say that you are right. What makes you believe she didn't want to know? The action shown in the cinematic happens years after her death.

thats why the cinematic is "meh", just showing her as a Garona clone

"The Necrolord Covenant resides in Maldraxxus and is responsible for the determined and the powerful. Powerful souls — physically, emotionally, and even mentally — are valued here as military guardians to aid in the fight."

"The Necrolords value power above all — those determined and willing to serve the Covenant, who are ruthless, unyielding, unrelenting. "

- https://blizzardwatch.com/2020/04/15...w-shadowlands/

Nothing says that the souls sent there were skilled warriors in life. Only that the best of them become skilled soldiers for the protection of the Shadowlands. Just like Draka was not a rogue in life but became one in the afterlife.

nothing of that rly fit Drakka character, neither the froswolves in general, not a single frostwolf would value power above all, therefore she do not fit Malraxxus.

[Dravec]

It's not lazy if it's for a narrative purpose.



Yeah, yeah. It's like those guys who went "Hey, I'm no racist, I like Nat King Cole! But that n* should remain on his own train wagon..." You wouldn't even mention the fact that Draka is a "womine" if it didn't bother you.



She saw Durotan die, she had no reason to believe Thrall would survive since those Blackrocks traitors were sent to kill them all.



Yeah, bullshit. Then why are you bringing that in?



Like I said, she already knew they were most likely dead. But let's say that you are right. What makes you believe she didn't want to know? The action shown in the cinematic happens years after her death. There's nothing she can do about them. What was Durotan's fate has been after death? She has no mean to know. Same with Thrall. Unless she met some dead orc who told her that Thrall, son of Durotan, is Warchief of the Horde now. But then again, even if she knew all that, what can she do about it? Nothing. Once her mourning was done, she moved on with her afterlife. And haven't you heard of the expression "until death do us part?" There's a moment when you must stop complaining about your fate and move on.



Tell that to Blizzard.

"The Necrolord Covenant resides in Maldraxxus and is responsible for the determined and the powerful. Powerful souls — physically, emotionally, and even mentally — are valued here as military guardians to aid in the fight."

"The Necrolords value power above all — those determined and willing to serve the Covenant, who are ruthless, unyielding, unrelenting. "

- https://blizzardwatch.com/2020/04/15...w-shadowlands/

Nothing says that the souls sent there were skilled warriors in life. Only that the best of them become skilled soldiers for the protection of the Shadowlands. Just like Draka was not a rogue in life but became one in the afterlife.



Well, all covenants are arbitrary. That's why they have an Arbiter (d'uh) who decides if a soul is more suited for that covenant or another. I mean, someone could have a link to nature, be selfless, full of resolve and wanting to become the best he can be in his craft. You would think that a paladin like Alexandros Mograine would end up in Bastion. Yet, the Arbiter sent him in Maldraxxus because his courage and resolve were needed in there.



She was weak, and she overcame that. You should look at her backstory again. That resolve, that courage and strength of heart is precisely what Maldraxxus is searching for.



You make it sound like being sent to Maldraxxus is a stroll in the park. Not everyone sent there end up as a soldier, you know. The souls are severely tested and those deemed too weak are sent to become fuel for the Necrolords' war machine. And if the Shadowlands needs an army to defend itself, then I suppose the Arbiter would send plenty of souls in Maldraxxus.

Narrative does not excuse laziness. It is not a good look in animation to use the same animation multiple times. There is no way you can justify it when it is a universal taboo.

It bothers me when a female character is pushed solely because they’re female, and nothing else. If anything, you’re the sexist because you see nothing wrong with tokenizing women.

What the fuck kind of logic is that? So you’re saying she could have asked about Thrall and Durotan and we don’t know? How is that a defense? They would have showed that, and considering she doesn’t know about Thrall in the beta, it’s pretty obvious she never bothered. It’s not like it would be hard to find out, considering all the leaders of each zone know each other. So either Draka is a psychopath or has selective memory.

Lol so going by Blizzard’s own rules, Draka doesn’t fit in Maldraxxus at all.

Strong? No.
Unrelenting? No.
Ruthless? No.

So why the fuck is she here? Tokenism seems to be the only real answer. I haven’t even gone in on how she’s basically Garona now too.

If we go by Blizzard’s logic then there is functionally no difference between Maldraxxus or Bastion. If someone like Mograine can be sent to Maldraxxus because of his “resolve”, then why isn’t Uther there? Why isn’t Tirion there? Why is Draka not in Bastion considering she lived a selfless life and sacrificed herself for her kid?

This stupid short has already made the Shadowlands make no sense as an afterlife.

[username993720]

Where did he end up? And your question was not why would Vashj end up in Maldraxxus, but if I would entrust it's protection to her. To which I said that at least she was loyal to those she had served in life. I never said that loyalty is a reason why she was sent there instead of another covenant. Besides, loyalty must be expected from any member of its respective covenant. Felons in life were probably sent first to Revendreth. But that's speculation

Then, why mention it in the first place? You made it sound like it's a crucial trait for Maldraxxian souls.

Well, we may never know, since Uther and Devos threw him in the Maw before he was judged by the Arbiter. Still, Arthas' mind was quite his own when he destroyed Stratholm, disobeyed a direct order from his King and father, betrayed the mercenaries he hired, destroyed the fleet, took Frostmourne and it's curse upon himself and showed no remorse when Muradin "died". So if he's not going directly to the Maw, he would certainly have made a trip to Revendreth. And yes, after that, I wouldn't have been surprised if he ended up in Maldraxxus.

He believed what he was doing was right, Much like the Scarlet Crusade. Where would you put them? They are, after all, followers of the light.

[Hctaz]

I still fail to understand why the realms of Shadowlands are fighting between each others...
This is the realm of the dead... everyone should be dead with no care for their feelings or emotions; why fight? How does that any make sense? Or any different than Azeroth?

Everything lorewise simply doesn't make sense;

Probably Dreadlords or some shit.

I dunno apparently they were invaded by the void, the light, the demons... I don't know how the fuck you can invade the afterlife though. Imagine an earth god (specific by the way to ONLY EARTH) just chilling in heaven and then fucking space C'thulu from another dimension just spawns out of nowhere and starts attacking... LOL

And then demons from several other planets start attacking.

And then you think the angels are coming to help but then you realize that they're crystal windchimes instead and they start assaulting you too. >.> this shit is whack.

[Jastall]

this shit is whack.

No better way to surmise Warcraft's lore since, well, forever really. How far we've come from a Warhammer clone, and yet how close we've stayed to home.

[Frontenac]

Then, why mention it in the first place? You made it sound like it's a crucial trait for Maldraxxian souls.

Like I said, you asked me if I would entrust the protection of Maldraxxus to Lady Vashj. I answered that even if she's a villain, she has been loyal, which means that you can trust her. I never said it was a crucial trait for Maldraxxus.

He believed what he was doing was right, Much like the Scarlet Crusade. Where would you put them? They are, after all, followers of the light.

Whatever the modern belief, right or wrong, especially in that kind of setting where there's an Arbiter deciding the fate of all souls, does not depend on personal belief. Most of them would go to Revendreth, if I were the Arbiter. But I'm not and neither are you. So I won't be playing the Arbiter for your amusement much longer.

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Narrative does not excuse laziness. It is not a good look in animation to use the same animation multiple times. There is no way you can justify it when it is a universal taboo.

It bothers me when a female character is pushed solely because they’re female, and nothing else. If anything, you’re the sexist because you see nothing wrong with tokenizing women.

I fail to see how that is tokenizing women. And I fail also to see how Draka is the token woman but Vashj, whom you seem to approve, would not. I mean it's always the same fucking thing we are reading everytime a female character is chosen: oh, it's sjw propaganda just to fill a female spot. Boulderdash.

What the fuck kind of logic is that? So you’re saying she could have asked about Thrall and Durotan and we don’t know? How is that a defense? They would have showed that, and considering she doesn’t know about Thrall in the beta, it’s pretty obvious she never bothered. It’s not like it would be hard to find out, considering all the leaders of each zone know each other. So either Draka is a psychopath or has selective memory.

Dammit, it's just a short, very short animation. Her concern or no about Thrall is just not the reason of the story they want to tell. Would you have said the same if it was Durotan instead of Draka? "Oh, why doesn't he wonder where Draka and Thrall are?"

Lol so going by Blizzard’s own rules, Draka doesn’t fit in Maldraxxus at all.

Strong? No. Yes
Unrelenting? No. Her backstory and even that animation shows us that she is.
Ruthless? No. I could grant you that one, to a certain measure

So why the fuck is she here? Tokenism seems to be the only real answer. I haven’t even gone in on how she’s basically Garona now too.

She's Thrall's mother and Thrall is in the Shadowland. They certainly wouldn't have brought back Thrall this late in BfA only to leave him in that sorry state. So if they can use Draka to develop both Thrall's story and her own, then why not? That is not tokenism. They chose Draka for a purpose.

If we go by Blizzard’s logic then there is functionally no difference between Maldraxxus or Bastion. If someone like Mograine can be sent to Maldraxxus because of his “resolve”, then why isn’t Uther there? Why isn’t Tirion there? Why is Draka not in Bastion considering she lived a selfless life and sacrificed herself for her kid?

This stupid short has already made the Shadowlands make no sense as an afterlife.

Well, normal beings are generally multifaceted, you know... Yes Uther had resolve and was unrelenting and strong, but his selflessness, his sense of service and devotion were more important. But yeah, the Shadowlands don't make much sense as an afterlife. Heck, all the cosmology doesn't make much sense. Warcraft hasn't made much sense since the beginning. But that's how they designed the game, so you either enjoy the ride or get out of the train.

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saying that everyone o say Draka don't make sense to be there is sexism is just a redflag to disregard opinions like you are in twitter, there is far better characters who fit maldaxxus more, male or female, so, lets say you think Zaela would not fit way more than drakka are you sexist?

Saying that Draka does not fit in Maldraxxus is an opinion. I do not agree with it, but it's debatable. Saying they chose her only because they needed "womine" (sic), does certainly stink of a, shall I say, certain retrograde view of the place of women in society.

thats not how it works, even if she knew they were dead, she would want to know where they were and see then

Maybe, but since that's not the purpose of the cinematic, which is to present Maldraxxus in only a few minutes, I don't see why they should have shown that to us.

thats why the cinematic is "meh", just showing her as a Garona clone

She's a Garona clone because they made her a rogue too? I think the two are still quite different.

nothing of that rly fit Drakka character, neither the froswolves in general, not a single frostwolf would value power above all, therefore she do not fit Malraxxus.

All orcs value power and strength. Lok'tar Ogar! Victory or Death! The only difference is why they want that power.

[Syegfryed]

Saying that Draka does not fit in Maldraxxus is an opinion. I do not agree with it, but it's debatable. Saying they chose her only because they needed "womine" (sic), does certainly stink of a, shall I say, certain retrograde view of the place of women in society.

well, she as a mother and a frostwolf hunter, don't fit maldraxxus t all, that is not up to debate.

The last could very well be true, knowing blizzard records, but the point is the first.

Maybe, but since that's not the purpose of the cinematic, which is to present Maldraxxus in only a few minutes, I don't see why they should have shown that to us.

like i said, thats why the cinematic is bad, they didn't attempt to make her palatable, it was just the rule of cool with extra edgy

She's a Garona clone because they made her a rogue too? I think the two are still quite different.

exactly like that, warrior/rogue, in the pre-scourge, she only need to blast some death magic to be the edgiest orc alive.

IF she was just an actually warrior fueled by death magic would be way better, but thas just me

All orcs value power and strength. Lok'tar Ogar! Victory or Death! The only difference is why they want that power.

not the frostwolves thats for sure, they are more "live to fight another day, and again, they don't seek power, therefore, frostwolves don't fit maldraxxus at all.

[Dravec]

Like I said, you asked me if I would entrust the protection of Maldraxxus to Lady Vashj. I answered that even if she's a villain, she has been loyal, which means that you can trust her. I never said it was a crucial trait for Maldraxxus.




Whatever the modern belief, right or wrong, especially in that kind of setting where there's an Arbiter deciding the fate of all souls, does not depend on personal belief. Most of them would go to Revendreth, if I were the Arbiter. But I'm not and neither are you. So I won't be playing the Arbiter for your amusement much longer.

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I fail to see how that is tokenizing women. And I fail also to see how Draka is the token woman but Vashj, whom you seem to approve, would not. I mean it's always the same fucking thing we are reading everytime a female character is chosen: oh, it's sjw propaganda just to fill a female spot. Boulderdash.



Dammit, it's just a short, very short animation. Her concern or no about Thrall is just not the reason of the story they want to tell. Would you have said the same if it was Durotan instead of Draka? "Oh, why doesn't he wonder where Draka and Thrall are?"



She's Thrall's mother and Thrall is in the Shadowland. They certainly wouldn't have brought back Thrall this late in BfA only to leave him in that sorry state. So if they can use Draka to develop both Thrall's story and her own, then why not? That is not tokenism. They chose Draka for a purpose.



Well, normal beings are generally multifaceted, you know... Yes Uther had resolve and was unrelenting and strong, but his selflessness, his sense of service and devotion were more important. But yeah, the Shadowlands don't make much sense as an afterlife. Heck, all the cosmology doesn't make much sense. Warcraft hasn't made much sense since the beginning. But that's how they designed the game, so you either enjoy the ride or get out of the train.

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Saying that Draka does not fit in Maldraxxus is an opinion. I do not agree with it, but it's debatable. Saying they chose her only because they needed "womine" (sic), does certainly stink of a, shall I say, certain retrograde view of the place of women in society.



Maybe, but since that's not the purpose of the cinematic, which is to present Maldraxxus in only a few minutes, I don't see why they should have shown that to us.





She's a Garona clone because they made her a rogue too? I think the two are still quite different.



All orcs value power and strength. Lok'tar Ogar! Victory or Death! The only difference is why they want that power.

Draka is the token because:
1. She’s irrelevant to the story and has done nothing.
2. Blizzard doesn’t have any real Orc female characters outside of maybe Garona.
3. They’re giving her traits and abilities that mark a Mary Sue.

She was the default “strong independent woman” meme to a T. It’s baffling why they chose Draka when they had Vashj who has an actual personality that isn’t just “I’m strong”.

Yes, you idiot, if it was about Durotan (who would also make no sense being in Maldraxxus) and he never inquired about his family, I would complain. Especially considering family is extremely important to the Frostwolves.

Infracted.

Drake’s own lore has her being sickly and weak. She is not physically strong at all. She wasn’t unrelenting either until Blizz decided to turn her into Garona 2.0. Still not ruthless. How can Draka, the runt of her clan, qualify for the warrior afterlife, but not any other Frostwolf, especially Durotan? If Thrall meets Draka, considering Blizzard’s track record with the strong woman type, Draka will show little care beyond the first 5 mins.

[Frontenac]

Draka is the token because:
1. She’s irrelevant to the story and has done nothing.

She's relevent to the story since she's Thrall's mother and Thrall is coincidently in the Shadowlands.

2. Blizzard doesn’t have any real Orc female characters outside of maybe Garona.

What kind of reason is that? Did they really need an orc female?

3. They’re giving her traits and abilities that mark a Mary Sue.

That has nothing to do about being a token. Besides, she's not a Mary Sue at all. But of course, she a female character that is given some importance, so therefore she must be a Mary Sue...

As you all say, they have other female characters to choose. So how can she be a "token"?

She was the default “strong independent woman” meme to a T. It’s baffling why they chose Draka when they had Vashj who has an actual personality that isn’t just “I’m strong”.

Yes, you idiot,

Okay, just for that you are not even worthy of any more answers from me. Adieu.

[Aucald]

Drake’s own lore has her being sickly and weak. She is not physically strong at all. She wasn’t unrelenting either until Blizz decided to turn her into Garona 2.0. Still not ruthless. How can Draka, the runt of her clan, qualify for the warrior afterlife, but not any other Frostwolf, especially Durotan? If Thrall meets Draka, considering Blizzard’s track record with the strong woman type, Draka will show little care beyond the first 5 mins.

Draka actually overcame her sickly and weak state in the course of her own short story A Warrior Made. After overcoming it she became fit and strong, the peer of such luminaries as Durotan and Orgrim among the Orcs.

[Popokolara]

She's relevent to the story since she's Thrall's mother and Thrall is coincidently in the Shadowlands.



What kind of reason is that? Did they really need an orc female?



That has nothing to do about being a token. Besides, she's not a Mary Sue at all. But of course, she a female character that is given some importance, so therefore she must be a Mary Sue...

As you all say, they have other female characters to choose. So how can she be a "token"?



Okay, just for that you are not even worthy of any more answers from me. Adieu.

a lot of your answers here are responses to statemenets never made. you said vashj and drakka have no difference as a counter argument when the argument was that Vashj WAS a warrior and a conqueror and a ruthless leader.

like, how do you ignore 90% of a sentence, and then actually use it to support your side. how can you do this and not feel anything? its outright scary.

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Draka actually overcame her sickly and weak state in the course of her own short story A Warrior Made. After overcoming it she became fit and strong, the peer of such luminaries as Durotan and Orgrim among the Orcs.

I dont know about the peer of such luminaries part. Are you sure its specifically fleshed out like that? Because frostwovles in general werent like the other clans at all, thats what set them apart. Durotan is remembered for this psychological traits a lot more than the physical ones while orgrim is remembered as the leader of the wars.
That is a question to you rather than a dissagreement: IS it fair to put those on the same level, specifically durotan and orgrim?

Besides that Maldraxxus as described by blizzard itself says: The souls of the ambitious and contentious are forged into an immortal army charged with the defense of the Shadowlands.

it also says:

If you’re a believer in the power of might? Then the Necrolords Covenant just may be where you place your loyalties within the Shadowlands.

I dont feel like drakka and durotan serve thess sentences very well. The whole idea of ruthlessness and other traits that are being observed.

[Aucald]

I dont know about the peer of such luminaries part. Are you sure its specifically fleshed out like that? Because frostwovles in general werent like the other clans at all, thats what set them apart. Durotan is remembered for this psychological traits a lot more than the physical ones while orgrim is remembered as the leader of the wars.
That is a question to you rather than a dissagreement: IS it fair to put those on the same level, specifically durotan and orgrim?

Besides that Maldraxxus as described by blizzard itself says: The souls of the ambitious and contentious are forged into an immortal army charged with the defense of the Shadowlands.

it also says:

If you’re a believer in the power of might? Then the Necrolords Covenant just may be where you place your loyalties within the Shadowlands.

I dont feel like drakka and durotan serve thess sentences very well. The whole idea of ruthlessness and other traits that are being observed.

The Orcish clans were all strict meritocracies, and while the Frostwolves were perhaps the most benevolent of clans, they still had a highly regimented society that reflected that core ethos: which was the reason Draka and her family were exiled by Garad to begin with. That meritocracy also surrounded the function of both men and women in the society - there was no strict social demarcation there, both sexes treated equally according to their worth in said society. Draka goes from frail exile to the mate of the chieftain, a pretty meteoric rise for any individual in her culture. As the chieftain's mate she also distinguished herself and her clan in the Frostwolves' battles and eventual conquest of Bladespire Hold.

The description of Maldraxxus, to me, seems like a place that could circumscribe nearly any Orc - Durotan could be there, Ga'nar most certainly, Orgrim, and Grom all could conceivably be found there. Why Draka specifically was chosen for it we cannot know, perhaps something about her journey from weak exile to chieftain's mate caught the eye of the Necrolords who saw in her the willfulness and determination to aid the armies of the Shadowlands. Perhaps the circumstances of her death left her with a sense of discontentment that made Maldraxxus the choice destination, a means to prove herself once more. Perhaps there was even a darkness in Draka that was never explored previously, but something we'll see more of in the Necrolord Covenant story going forward.