[Spoilers] Shadowlands: Afterlives Cinematic Discussion

[McNeil]

This video was hard to watch because Uther was supposed to be locked inside Frostmourne and he was only able to get out briefly during Halls of Reflection. The whole point of the Lich King becoming stronger is that he harvest souls and that his victims are unable to move on to the afterlife. This just screams of yet another retcon.

What I found interesting was that Arthas was apparently wrongfully judged and it looks like he should appear at some point. A redemption story just has to happen now.

[Aucald]

Is it explicitly stated like this, I mean is it directly implied that there were other souls and it wasn't just Ysera? Because if it was just Ysera then it's possible that it was Elune's intervention, after all - if Bwonsamdi can rescue Troll souls from the Maw, it's likely that Elune can too.

The Ardenweald storyline is explicit that Ysera was one of the last souls to arrive "naturally" in Ardenweald, before the Drought began, and before the Arbiter shut down. Meaning Ysera was properly judged and brought to Ardenweald to undergo rebirth and eventual return to Azeroth as befit a Wild God in good standing. This is why she's in one of the Lifeseed pods the Night Court use to reconstitute the spirits of Wild Gods or Ancients preparatory for rebirth into life.

Elune probably can vouchsafe souls from the Maw, but in this cause it seems that wasn't necessary. Elune simply burned away Ysera's Nightmare corruption before it could completely claim her, allowing her to die in peace and go on to be reborn as part of the natural process.

[Adoxe]

This video was hard to watch because Uther was supposed to be locked inside Frostmourne and he was only able to get out briefly during Halls of Reflection. The whole point of the Lich King becoming stronger is that he harvest souls and that his victims are unable to move on to the afterlife. This just screams of yet another retcon.

What I found interesting was that Arthas was apparently wrongfully judged and it looks like he should appear at some point. A redemption story just has to happen now.

Re-watch it. Uther's soul is split in two, one goes inside Frostmourne the other to the Shadowlands. Frostmourne half is the one we interacted with.

[Aucald]

I'm watching a video of the Halls of Reflection, and no he doesn't? He tells Jaina how to destroy him. How exactly is that conciliatory?

I'm referring to the quest in ICC, where you return his item from the Sealed Chest to him at the entryway. He says the following:

Uther the Lightbringer says: Arthas...
Uther the Lightbringer says: Alas, hero of Azeroth, you give me a greater gift than you know.
Uther the Lightbringer says: Long have I struggled to forgive the prince for his terrible transgressions.
Uther the Lightbringer says: My soul has been wracked with unbearable anxiety, dark thoughts... distancing me from the Light.
Uther the Lightbringer says: I recall clearly the gleam of pride in his eye as he stood before me, eager to defeat the enemies of the Light...
Uther the Lightbringer says: Eager to defend his people, no matter the cost.
Uther the Lightbringer says: It is this memory of Arthas that I choose to keep in my heart.
Uther the Lightbringer says: I shall always be in your debt, friend.
Uther the Lightbringer says: Thank you.

[literallysame]

This video was hard to watch because Uther was supposed to be locked inside Frostmourne and he was only able to get out briefly during Halls of Reflection. The whole point of the Lich King becoming stronger is that he harvest souls and that his victims are unable to move on to the afterlife. This just screams of yet another retcon.

What I found interesting was that Arthas was apparently wrongfully judged and it looks like he should appear at some point. A redemption story just has to happen now.

His soul split into two. One half into Frostmourne and one into Bastion.

I really think that part of Uther's story will be uniting his two spirits.

[Sarethion]

The Ardenweald storyline is explicit that Ysera was one of the last souls to arrive "naturally" in Ardenweald

Well, then that shoots the "Arthas being thrown into the Maw broke death" theory out of the window, which... I'm a bit sad about, because it would be a really cool way to explain how death broke. Well, we'll see what they do to instead. Hopefully it's something more interesting than the Jailer simply breaking death.

[Aucald]

Well, then that shoots the "Arthas being thrown into the Maw broke death" theory out of the window, which... I'm a bit sad about, because it would be a really cool way to explain how death broke. Well, we'll see what they do to instead. Hopefully it's something more interesting than the Jailer simply breaking death.

It definitely has something to do with the Soulcage, Helya, and Sylvanas given how the events line up. Although my personal theory is that was more the straw that broke the camel's proverbial back as opposed to the sole incident, so to speak. So it stands to reason that Arthas being tossed into the Maw might well have been a factor, just one of the many dominoes lined up by the Jailer and Sylvanas that eventually brought the system down.

[Nerovar]

I would agree but perhaps A'dal feels differently, or perhaps there are realms in the Shadowlands that aren't subject to incursions.

I mean, another thing to consider is: Why would the Light send Uther into an afterlife that apparently gets invaded by the Light from time to time? Also aren't there two imprisoned Naaru there?

[Combatbutler]

Elune probably can vouchsafe souls from the Maw, but in this cause it seems that wasn't necessary.

I seriously doubt that considering the maw is teeming with night elves, she spared the pain of burning to death, only to leave them to hell.

[Varodoc]

Well, then that shoots the "Arthas being thrown into the Maw broke death" theory out of the window, which... I'm a bit sad about, because it would be a really cool way to explain how death broke. Well, we'll see what they do to instead. Hopefully it's something more interesting than the Jailer simply breaking death.

Why was that a theory in the first place? Blizzard confirmed the machine of death broke during Legion, and they confirmed like 10 months ago.

[bagina]

Well, then that shoots the "Arthas being thrown into the Maw broke death" theory out of the window, which... I'm a bit sad about, because it would be a really cool way to explain how death broke. Well, we'll see what they do to instead. Hopefully it's something more interesting than the Jailer simply breaking death.

Why are you people ignoring the obvious reason AKA the weapon containing the power of the Maw "the agent of the Maw" if you will (by Devos' own words) influencing the world of the dead? Devos literally fucking says it.

[Nagawithlegs]

I don't think Arthas getting thrown into the Maw was part of the Jailer's plan. More likely it will end up being part of his downfall when we end up working with Arthas to take him down.

[Goldielocks]

I'm referring to the quest in ICC, where you return his item from the Sealed Chest to him at the entryway. He says the following:

That's not exactly evidence that there's something wrong with his soul, especially considering that he did understand Arthas needed to die regardless of his personal feelings. This questline also happens after his soul is freed by the looks of it, making that a factor. Arthas is already dead.

Doesn't sound like damage to me. Only personal ties. Terenas was the same way. Jaina still is the same way. Even in BFA did she have ties with him, muddying her perception, and I doubt that storyline is ending anytime soon.

[literallysame]

So with this image
I strongly believe we will help Uther reclaim his other half of his soul. This could be the reason for the update to his tomb.

[Aucald]

I mean, another thing to consider is: Why would the Light send Uther into an afterlife that apparently gets invaded by the Light from time to time?

We don't know if Bastion specifically has ever been attacked by the Light, nor do we really know the nature of the Shadowlands conflict with the Void and the Light. The Void has definitely attacked Bastion, we see that in quests in the zone, but there's no mention of any battles with the Light specifically. I'm of the mind that the Light and the Void don't really wage war with the Shadowlands directly, per se; but merely that the eternal Void/Light conflict has the Shadowlands as one of its many metacosmic battlegrounds (with the denizens of the Shadowlands less than pleased by playing host to warring entities). In that sense, perhaps the Light sent Uther to Bastion because he's always been a stalwart warrior against the Void (as a matter of course) and it felt the Shadowlands was in need of those.

Or, if you're of a more conspiratorial bend, and given what Uther's presence does to Bastion with the actions of the Forsworn that he comes to champion, perhaps sending Uther to Bastion was itself an attack?

[MikeBogina]

The machine of death was broken in Legion, around the time Sylvanas was toying with the Soulcage and had imprisoned Eyir - this is confirmed in Ardenweald as Ysera (who died at Val'Sharah) was one of the last of the souls to come to the Shadowlands. Arthas, in this case, appears to be a soul who wasn't properly judged by the Arbiter because Uther and Devos decided to judge and punish him directly.

It's also around the time that Frostmourne was reforged

My phone kept quoting @Mehrunes, sorry >.>

[bagina]

It definitely has something to do with the Soulcage, Helya, and Sylvanas given how the events line up. Although my personal theory is that was more the straw that broke the camel's proverbial back as opposed to the sole incident, so to speak. So it stands to reason that Arthas being tossed into the Maw might well have been a factor, just one of the many dominoes lined up by the Jailer and Sylvanas that eventually brought the system down.

What do you mean, that Sylvanas had anything to do with Arthas being thrown to the Maw? She didn't know the Jailer then.

[LemonDemonGirl]

He's still a denizen of Shadowlands that directly interacted with the world. Likely, so is Mueh'zala, because someone had to ascend Bwonsamdi from a priest to a Loa. Then there's Helya and her squad.

Uhh... Mueh'Zala says he made Bwonsamdi go from 'Priest ta Loa' himself so I know think he's the one who did it. Ooor brought a seed to Bwonsamdi and told him to go sit in it? I've just assumed he died and was raised as a Loa

Zalazane doesn't even get to lick Nagash's feet. Hell, even his dandruff.

Zalazane also didn't undead-ify the whole world lol

[Goldielocks]

What do you mean, that Sylvanas had anything to do with Arthas being thrown to the Maw? She didn't know the Jailer then.

Maybe. Maybe not. Blizzard can just come out tomorrow and say that she has. Hasn't stopped them before.

[Aucald]

That's not exactly evidence that there's something wrong with his soul, especially considering that he did understand Arthas needed to die regardless of his personal feelings. This questline also happens after his soul is freed by the looks of it, making that a factor. Arthas is already dead.

Doesn't sound like damage to me. Only personal ties. Terenas was the same way. Jaina still is the same way. Even in BFA did she have ties with him, muddying her perception, and I doubt that storyline is ending anytime soon.

I didn't think so at the time, either; I just chalked it up to Uther being sentimental in light of Arthas' death. But new information has a way of making one take a second look at previous convictions or judgments. Like I said previously, I don't think this is precisely "damage" per se, but it could be construed as out of character within context. It's also of note that Uther also says he feels a "darkness" in his own spirit in those very lines of dialogue - which could be said to be quite telling in light of what we now know. Perhaps what he felt was his own incompleteness, a version of the literal wound he later displays in Bastion?