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  1. #1

    Beta Update for Havoc: End of August 2020

    Can anyone with the Beta let us know how the class feels and plays now in Shadowlands? I am still trying to figure out what class I want to play in Shadowlands and I fell in love with Demon Hunter during BFA and it's a class I can see myself maining for a long time. (This is one of my first times ever posting on forums at all, sorry if this post kinda sucks lol)

    All information I can find is outdated and hasn't been updated since the end of July. All I've been really able to find is people complaining about how the damage isn't mongoloid anymore. I've never really cared about how meta-damage the class is, but I do enjoy the high damage it has and the play style that came along with it.

    I'm looking for information how the class feels and plays, if its closer to BFA style playing or has evolved into something else?

    Have the leech, haste and Demonic talent nerfs really make the class feel terrible?

    To me it looks like the Venthyr are the best choice for the covenants, because Sinful Brand sounds awesome. Is it the best as of right now?

    Is Furious Gaze and Chaotic Transformation (I believe I saw this included) being a baseline talent now feel as good as it sounds?

    Does the class still feel fast paced with ability to pump out medium/medium high to high damage numbers?

    Feel free to leave any sort of comment, thoughts or concerns about the class below, please!

  2. #2
    It feels good to play, don't worry

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kleym View Post
    It feels good to play, don't worry
    Hardly. Great to see the simple answer with no context to why it plays so well to you.

    The changes don't really bring anything functional to Havoc so far. I've tested out between a lot of talents throughout dungeons. Nothing high end but there is the same reliance on the borrowed powers "feel".

    Glaive Tempest at it's current state is really underwhelming, it takes away from blade dances "Trail of Ruin" which without essentially makes it non viable to weave into the rotation. So far I have had less overall dps using blade dance in a dungeon, than without. Even taking essence break Dps feels more suited to spam chaos strike at the moment. It is however, up for basically every pack and allows a quick spread of aoe but its just a gimped version of Fury of the Illidari. [Even currently in the spellbook you can see "Artifact" clearly evident it was copy pasted].

    Currently it doesn't synergise well with it's own abilities and yet again heavily reliant "Borrowed powers" with Sinful brand [Venthyr] making up within top 3 of damage dealt, compared to other classes. So far tested between Hunter/Rogue/Boomkin and Enh Sham.

    Fel barrage feels useless to take competing with Demonic as over the course of any encounter it feels much more viable to have the bursts of Meta over the capped aoe.

    I am aware there is still tuning and what not in the mix. Havoc still has a long way to come.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan333 View Post
    Fel barrage feels useless to take competing with Demonic as over the course of any encounter it feels much more viable to have the bursts of Meta over the capped aoe.
    Idk why they put Fel Barrage on the last tier.

    feels weird.
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    except she was, she literally was experimenting on prisoners men, women, children, soldier, and civilian,
    to try and make a stronger and stronger plague.
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    Your not gonna win trying to make this one realize the truth.
    Your have better luck curing Corona with lemon and lime juice

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan333 View Post
    Hardly. Great to see the simple answer with no context to why it plays so well to you.

    The changes don't really bring anything functional to Havoc so far. I've tested out between a lot of talents throughout dungeons. Nothing high end but there is the same reliance on the borrowed powers "feel".

    Glaive Tempest at it's current state is really underwhelming, it takes away from blade dances "Trail of Ruin" which without essentially makes it non viable to weave into the rotation. So far I have had less overall dps using blade dance in a dungeon, than without. Even taking essence break Dps feels more suited to spam chaos strike at the moment. It is however, up for basically every pack and allows a quick spread of aoe but its just a gimped version of Fury of the Illidari. [Even currently in the spellbook you can see "Artifact" clearly evident it was copy pasted].

    Currently it doesn't synergise well with it's own abilities and yet again heavily reliant "Borrowed powers" with Sinful brand [Venthyr] making up within top 3 of damage dealt, compared to other classes. So far tested between Hunter/Rogue/Boomkin and Enh Sham.

    Fel barrage feels useless to take competing with Demonic as over the course of any encounter it feels much more viable to have the bursts of Meta over the capped aoe.

    I am aware there is still tuning and what not in the mix. Havoc still has a long way to come.
    So can all of the issues you see be fixed with a simple tuning? Or with the changes theyve made in Shadowlands so far butchered the class? I'm still just wondering if the class will be fun to play while still being viable to high end content.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by rsf316 View Post
    So can all of the issues you see be fixed with a simple tuning? Or with the changes theyve made in Shadowlands so far butchered the class? I'm still just wondering if the class will be fun to play while still being viable to high end content.
    I'd say. Honestly. Simple tuning is would not essentially remedy most of the issues brought forth. There's some structural changes that would need to be implemented. As for high end content, I'm sure that "Chaos Brand" will still keep at least one DH as requirement due the the inc 5% magic damage.

    It's still early-ish to make decisions based on end game due to tuning ongoing before release. If you enjoy the class it might be worth sticking to, however it might not be enough. Lets wait and see if conduits/legendaries tweaked may change that. Which again, the DH will be based around borrowed powers for its structure and throughput. Especially since the legendaries don't add any flavour, just RNG procs mainly.

  7. #7
    Problem with dh is that we have only 1 spec to play. Every other DPS class got 2 specs to play. If they mess up this i see no reason to enjoy DH any more. I am not talking about numbers, they are easily fixed but feel is just empty and we dont have a 2nd spec to compensate
    Last edited by cyberhrc; 2020-08-26 at 08:44 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberhrc View Post
    Problem with dh is that we have only 1 spec to play. Every other DPS class got 2 specs to play. If they mess up this i see no reason to enjoy DH any more. I am not talking about numbers, they are easily fixed but feel is just empty and we dont have a 2nd spec to compensate
    It's definitely a factor. You are right in that numbers can be tuned but the core faces significant risks left as bland as it is. They don't necessarily need another spec (Although it would add some diversity), they just need to scale proportionately with stats like most classes and have rotational factors tuned that aren't directly reliant on rng factors only. A little bit of engagement (potential proc based systems). As DH are proven specifically with the stat amp corruptions, how badly stats affect them.

    As it' been since DH released, Demonic has worked its way being staple and I' surprised it isn't just baked into the class.

  9. #9
    Should just make Demonic baseline for both Havoc and Veng at this point. Meta is so integral for the Demon Hunter that having it become baseline would be only logical. Would make the talent choices more interesting too.
    - I will never be the Legion's pawn. And this tower will not be its den!

    Best Mage ever lived!

  10. #10
    It feels mostly fine. Unbound Chaos is currently the play in dungeons over Trail and Tempest. The guy saying Blade Dance isn't worth using without Trail is wrong, as long as you have First Blood it makes Blade Dance worth using. We are back to having to make sure your BD is off CD as your Eye Beam ends to fit 2 Death Sweep in Demonic Window.

    Really what we need is legendary, conduit and soul bind work. The spec itself is in a pretty okay spot.

  11. #11
    In my opinion the "best" way to fix Havoc DH is simply to add one spell to our base rotation.

    As it is right now, we have 2 abilities (1 generator and 1 spender) in our core rotation. Just adding one more ability to this that could add some flavour to the rotation would fix a lot of things. For example, just moving Essence break from the talent to a baseline spell would do wonders for the feel of the spec. It would however need some tuning of course.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberhrc View Post
    Problem with dh is that we have only 1 spec to play. Every other DPS class got 2 specs to play. If they mess up this i see no reason to enjoy DH any more. I am not talking about numbers, they are easily fixed but feel is just empty and we dont have a 2nd spec to compensate
    Since when do priests, monks and paladins have 2 dps specs?

  13. #13
    Spec is completely broken. Its basically a downgrade from bfa, which already was a downgrade from legion.

    I am only talking about mechanics and talents, not about damage numbers as those can easily be tuned.

    The change to the demonic window makes everything feel bad to play. There are still all the momentum talents which are basically dead. There is a big chance that FB will vanish from the SB rotation etc.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    Since when do priests, monks and paladins have 2 dps specs?
    read again i wrote DPS classes .. u are mentioning hybrid classes .. /clap
    so in explanation rogues, hunters, wars, locks, dks, mages are dps classes [ and dk war as tank but with 2 dps specs ]
    got it now ?

  15. #15
    Sorry for the long post.

    OK guys we aren't gonna get a complete rework. That's not possible. I posted this before on the Fel Hammer (and added some other stuff) but these are minor changes that I think can improve the scaling of the spec and can open up some new synergies for tweaks down the line.
    Additionally, If they change up how our Mastery works then these are affected retroactively and the tweaking doesn't need to be done on an individual basis.

    15. Felblade: Change the Fire damage to Chaos damage because it needs to scale with our Mastery. As long as its fire damage it does nothing to synergise with the new talents and will always be overshadowed by Blind Fury DPS burst and Demonic Appetites sustain.
    25. Insatiable Hunger: Keep the damage modifier to Demon Bite but replace the Fury generation with a 10-15 Fury reduction of Chaos Strike. This allows for more consistent Fury tracking and calculation, as well as making it a more competitive ST choice.
    30. Glaive Tempest: Fix the Mastery scaling (this appears to be not working currently). Additionally it would be improved could be cast on an enemy, damaging them and surrounding enemies, rather than have it spin around the player. This gives a more distinct situational advantage over Unbound Chaos. Edit: Possibly replace Throw Glaive and remove the the Fury?
    40. Make First Blood baseline: Replace with a simple talent that gives you two charges of Blade Dance with a 20% increase cooldown. May seem OP, but to make maximum effect would require losing UC or GT for ToR. Bloodlet
    40. Essence Break: Replace the damage increase for Chaos Strike and Blade Dance to apply to Chaos damaging abilities. Reduce the damage increase to 25%. This allows the ability to be influenced by your mastery.

    To top it all off, one simple change in Mastery would be to add: During Metamorphosis, all Demon Hunter damaging abilities and talents are treated as Chaos Damage.

    These aren't massive game breaking changes, and they don't make us OP in my opinion. It's literally tweaks to existing abilities that open up more builds and viability.

    But what do you think?
    Last edited by Ksper; 2020-08-31 at 11:19 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberhrc View Post
    read again i wrote DPS classes .. u are mentioning hybrid classes .. /clap
    so in explanation rogues, hunters, wars, locks, dks, mages are dps classes [ and dk war as tank but with 2 dps specs ]
    got it now ?
    Hybrid classes are classes which can fill more than one of the core PvE roles: tank, healer, or damage dealer

    Dh is also hybrid class, rogues, mages, locks and hunters are dedicated dps classes. Dont be rude on others for the same mistake you did.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinary View Post
    Hybrid classes are classes which can fill more than one of the core PvE roles: tank, healer, or damage dealer

    Dh is also hybrid class, rogues, mages, locks and hunters are dedicated dps classes. Dont be rude on others for the same mistake you did.
    Most people associated hybrids with something like an ele/enh/ret/boomy/feral because while they can dps they can actually off cast heals etc. While a DH can tank and DPS, they have to change specs to do it effectively, granted the game has changed and everything seems to have evolved into some sort of hybrid healer/dps/tank thing but it doesn't centre around casted heals - Healing Surge, Regrowth, Healing Touch, Flash of Light etc

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JessicaJones View Post
    Most people associated hybrids with something like an ele/enh/ret/boomy/feral
    How people assume things are defined and how they actually are are two different things, while i agree that havoc cant tank well or cant cast any heals, it is still considered as a hybrid class. Even more of a reason not to be rude to others if you state your opinions as facts on a forum.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by JessicaJones View Post
    Most people associated hybrids with something like an ele/enh/ret/boomy/feral...
    Hybrid refers to the class, not the spec. ele/enh/ret/boomy/feral are all DPS specs... Any class with a non DPS spec is a hybrid.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kleym View Post
    It feels good to play, don't worry
    This dogshit weaksauce single FG 6s demonic capped cd reduction meme vs 3x FG chad DH with 8s demonic and uncapped EOR DH? Bruh. Shadowlands DH basically plays WORSE than a fresh lvl 120 DH in shadowlands with one furious gaze trait on your azerite gear D

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