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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    But it should have given more quests, rather than "follow them around and smile for the camera."
    Loyalists should not have been going to save Baine under the guise of "follow them around and speak to a Dark Ranger and she'll give you a potion."

    Loyalists should have been doing their own thing, perhaps in Zin-Azshari, looking for the Grimoire of the Void (the book that the shadow priests used in Legion as an off-hand.)
    Wouldn't that just piss Loyalists off even more given that they were actually dedicated to tasks to help her out, and all that effort leads to an even more disappointing dead-end?

  2. #402
    Banned Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Wouldn't that just piss Loyalists off even more given that they were actually dedicated to tasks to help her out, and all that effort leads to an even more disappointing dead-end?
    If anything, it would be a little better than UR ALL NOTHING REEEEEEEEEE. I would have even had Sylvanas promising them they will be their acolytes under her New Order, only for them to find out later that they would be slaughtered, exactly like everyone else.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    If anything, it would be a little better than UR ALL NOTHING REEEEEEEEEE. I would have even had Sylvanas promising them they will be their acolytes under her New Order, only for them to find out later that they would be slaughtered, exactly like everyone else.
    She never planned to do that though.

    If things went according to her plan, she would have continued using the Loyalists as her pawns and eventually ascended them to higher ranks within her order. Only when her plan fell apart is when she abandoned everyone and everything.

    And to be honest, with the amount of Stockholm syndrome being displayed here, I'm sure Loyalists would be asking for an option where they could sacrifice themselves for Sylvanas -_-
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-08-27 at 10:52 PM.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    There's something extremely hilarious about this.
    It really is.



    Hallow's End happened around that time so that was just icing on the cake.



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    If anything, it would be a little better than UR ALL NOTHING REEEEEEEEEE. I would have even had Sylvanas promising them they will be their acolytes under her New Order, only for them to find out later that they would be slaughtered, exactly like everyone else.
    We did. Her plan for the loyalist was to have them join the suicide mission to Nazjatar, die to Azshara, and have her use the Heart of Azeroth to awaken N'zoth. It's shown during the N'zoth boss fight and Loyalist epilogue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    We did. Her plan for the loyalist was to have them join the suicide mission to Nazjatar, die to Azshara, and have her use the Heart of Azeroth to awaken N'zoth. It's shown during the N'zoth boss fight and Loyalist epilogue.
    they'll just say that's N'zoth being manipulative and that Kween Sylvanas would never.

  6. #406
    Not surprised at all considering they shoehorned in the loyalist option mid ptr when there was a backlash of people not wanting to side against her. And then every step of the way in BFA the loyalist path consisted of telling Sylvanas or Nathanos and them just telling you to 'go along with it' without an actual branching path of any sort. I can understand people not liking this, but the writing was on the wall. They didn't intend to to do anything interesting with this and it's not a surprise at all.

  7. #407
    This should be the least of your problems in Shadowlands.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Jshadowhunter View Post
    This is what light a fire in my belly.
    When the ending of BFA faction war happened I was pissed off at the mediocre writing, that Sylvannas' cry "You are all nothing." suddenly turns the whole Horde on her. But then I was like, "well, what's happened, happened I made my choices and when the time comes I'll stand where I stood" since I played the forsaken loyalist.
    And then this happens...

    Blizzard can go faf itself with its ineptitude and creative bankruptcy.
    Esecially when they brag about "it's an RPG".
    you may fantasize about being a Sylvanas loyalist, but your character is a HORDE character and it remains part of the Horde.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    you may fantasize about being a Sylvanas loyalist, but your character is a HORDE character and it remains part of the Horde.
    Considering the Alliance players are still trying to kill the players based on the fact that they are just assuming everyone in the horde is a Sylvanas Loyalist, I think the Devs are aware of Sylie loyalty.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Good. That's what you get for supporting the villian.
    What? There are plenty of games where you play the villain. The problem is that WoW pretended you could do the same but then said "not really" and removed that player agency.

    It's not about a moral issue at all, but a gameplay flaw.

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The war of Azeroth is a cosmic speck in the grand scheme of the universe, the whole premise doesn't make sense. All souls go to the maw, a few million from the last war shouldn't really make a dent in terms of power.
    I'm not saying it makes any sense, I'm just saying thats what the story is. Also, has blizz said there is only one "realm of death"? I figured Shadowlands was unique to Azeroth just like the Emerald Dream is, as they're supposed to be mirrors.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Beet View Post
    ...I don’t even know where you get this idea at. You are projecting something fierce here.

    - - - Updated - - -



    “How can adults play these kiddy bullshit video games?”

    That’s what you sound like. Let people enjoy what they enjoy.
    Deal with it, kiddo. This emoji and then this emoji and this emoji again

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-08-28 at 11:47 AM. Reason: Received Infraction
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  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    I'm not saying it makes any sense, I'm just saying thats what the story is. Also, has blizz said there is only one "realm of death"? I figured Shadowlands was unique to Azeroth just like the Emerald Dream is, as they're supposed to be mirrors.
    There are many different 'shadowlands' meaning, many different landmasses, each representing a different ideology: We see their doorways in the Arbiter's pillar. These 4 (5 including The Other Side) are the ones relevant to the plot. But the souls we encounter are not exclusive to Azeroth. Many of the characters are from different planets, including a wild god child of elune, which also means Elune isn't just a moon goddess, but she is the goddess of *every* moon

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    There are many different 'shadowlands' meaning, many different landmasses, each representing a different ideology: We see their doorways in the Arbiter's pillar. These 4 (5 including The Other Side) are the ones relevant to the plot. But the souls we encounter are not exclusive to Azeroth. Many of the characters are from different planets, including a wild god child of elune, which also means Elune isn't just a moon goddess, but she is the goddess of *every* moon
    Yup yup, this was proven when we used a moon rock fallen onto Alternate Draenor to create a moonwell in Shadowmoon Valley.

    https://www.wowhead.com/quest=33113/shadowmoonwell
    I did not hit that snowmound, it's not true! It's bullshit, I did not hit it. I did NAHT.
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  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Looks like you're about 15 years too late on that complaint and it feels a bit disingenuous that it buds up just now that you can no longer support Sylvanas.

    - - - Updated - - -


    If Sylvanas can pretend that the Alliance instigated it all, Genn can just pretend he knew Sylvanas was up to something bad and then point to the fact that he found her using an item to ENSLAVE A TITAN WATCHER to prove his case.

    (also, 'forced' to attack Gilneas, lol..)
    Yes forced. If you bothered to read the lore you'd know the attack on Gilneas started when Sylvanas was planning to kill herself in icecrown. Garrosh ordered the attack and did it in a manner to cause maximum forsaken casualties because he was determined to wipe them out.

    Although not before they won in Gilneas. No his plan was to win in Gilneas with huge casualty numbers. Then when the Alliance counters what was left would fight and fall. Some even choosing to self cremate their own bodies over facing alliance paladins. Before the exhausted alliance counter attack is met by Garrosh leading an orcish lead counter attack (with Tauren help as he still liked Tauren then and maybe blood elves) to push back the Alliance forces and claim himself a glorious victory and destroy the forsaken.

    That's why he banned the blight and got shocked at Sylvanas raising more undead. Not for noble reasons, not for honour. But because at that moment he realised that the forsaken wasn't going to be exterminated as he desired.

  16. #416
    Pit Lord Omians's Avatar
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    well i mean. she could tell them to screw off. Nathanos was top loyalist and she told him to pretty much Sod off and he stays in eastern plaguelands until the players so up. she really doesn't care of the Loyalists
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  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by SoundOfGuns View Post
    I don't want to be the asshole, even if this comes natural to me, buut...

    Let's be real here. 90% ... not all of them, but 90% ...where just into Sylvanas undead elven body and that's absolutely everything there was. The Video argues a great deal on how this is oh so mean and oh so lacking any logic that the loyalists would lose their allegiance over Sylvanas essentially selling them to whatever greater power she serves, even though she clearly showed she does not care for anyone. Not the Horde, not the loyalists, not anyone.

    ...and that makes it not very logical either for your character to follow her under these circumstances to the degree demanded here, that her words and actions would NOT deter you from following her further.

    To follow her beyond what she did and openly said there you don't have to be just loyal to her, but obsessed i feel. And in a death cult. Literally.

    The way Blizzard handled this is stupid, especially considering the loyalist end-quest you guys got. It makes little sense, but its also not as outragous and not as big of a logical jump as the video complains about.

    Its simply sad that Blizzard did abandon the player agency as quickly as it came though. But... ...and i say this fully aware that i said this about BFA which TOTALLY NOT BIT ME IN THE ASS AT ALL... ...give it time. Maybe there is some... ...larger logic behind this still and Sylvanas still has something for you. After all the Death is not the end and Nathanos will likely end up in the Maw.

    Goons don't need logic to follow a leader even if he's wrong... you can see it in real life everywhere... ! What if my character just wants power and war, there are people like that

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Yes forced. If you bothered to read the lore you'd know the attack on Gilneas started when Sylvanas was planning to kill herself in icecrown. Garrosh ordered the attack and did it in a manner to cause maximum forsaken casualties because he was determined to wipe them out.
    That is not entirely true. He just used their qualities as undead to his advantage. He states that they are nearly impossible to kill, which is true. The usual defenses a besieged enemy uses (like arrows) can barely stop them (there is a scene where a Forsaken looses his jaw and barely notices, every other race would be dead from such a hit). This makes them very useful shocktroops.
    Did he like them? Of course not and after the Wrathgate you will have to look hard to find anyone that actually did. But I think it goes too far to say that he wanted to wipe them out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    That's why he banned the blight and got shocked at Sylvanas raising more undead. Not for noble reasons, not for honour. But because at that moment he realised that the forsaken wasn't going to be exterminated as he desired.
    I think this is not entirely true either. He hated the blight because he feared it. He is used to solve problems that die when you lob an axe into them, but if he gets a breath of blight he will die like anyone else. That terrifies him, so he wanted none of that stuff near him. Also the Warthgate might have coloured his opinion of the stuff.
    And he did not forbid Sylvanas to raise more undead, even after she openly mocked him to his face. It would have been completely in his right as Warchief to order this practice stopped if he wanted it and most Horde leaders would have agreed. Even the Tauren that only helped the Forsaken to "cure" them of undeath would likely have looked quite dumbfounded if they are told that instead of working to cure their state they are damning more people to it.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    That is not entirely true. He just used their qualities as undead to his advantage. He states that they are nearly impossible to kill, which is true. The usual defenses a besieged enemy uses (like arrows) can barely stop them (there is a scene where a Forsaken looses his jaw and barely notices, every other race would be dead from such a hit). This makes them very useful shocktroops.
    Did he like them? Of course not and after the Wrathgate you will have to look hard to find anyone that actually did. But I think it goes too far to say that he wanted to wipe them out.
    He said that in response to Forsaken themselves pointing out how they are stuck in a pointless meatgrinder.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    I think this is not entirely true either. He hated the blight because he feared it. He is used to solve problems that die when you lob an axe into them, but if he gets a breath of blight he will die like anyone else. That terrifies him, so he wanted none of that stuff near him. Also the Warthgate might have coloured his opinion of the stuff.
    Which is why Gilneas was the only place where they were forbidden from using it. In Silverpine they were using a straing with Horde's seal of approval. After Gilneas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    He said that in response to Forsaken themselves pointing out how they are stuck in a pointless meatgrinder.
    I am aware. But that does not make his point invalid. No other race can survive that level of punishment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Which is why Gilneas was the only place where they were forbidden from using it. In Silverpine they were using a straing with Horde's seal of approval. After Gilneas.
    Probably because after Gilneas he realized that Sylvanas would do what she wanted anyway, so why bother? I mean since he never punished her for that or her open mockery in Silverpine he obviously wasn't interested in having any authority over her. Not like he is Warchief and should have executed her for blatant insubordination or anything.

    There is also the fact that the blight ruins everything it touches, not just sentient creatures. Maybe he wasn't fond of conquering blighted wastelands which are useless to anyone.

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