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  1. #61
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Interfacing the human mind with external applications and fixing internal issues with human minds are two seperate things.

    I don't like saying this. As I have lost a grandparent to demantia and I'm not long of losing another to it, but I wouldn't hold out on there being a solution to those kinds of problems from tech. Certainly not alzhimers and demantia.

    Here is an image of a health brain (left) and one of an alzhimers patient (right)
    [IMG]https://i.redd.it/zuz1ykhbluv31.jpg[IMG]

    As you can see the amount of structural damdge is extensive. And currently there isn't any thing we know of to reverse the damdge caused we can only slow down the process and in some rare cases halt it. Which is why early diagnosis is so key. Parkinsons is different ofc and there might be applications for this tech there but more as mobility aids but not as a form of treatment. I'm sorry if you had hopes in this tech for those conditions.
    I think it is possible to prevent or cure Alzheimer's and Parkinson's in the far future but I have no clue about the what the solution is. As far as a brain implant like Neuralink my guess is that it could only help to manage symptoms and it won't actually be a cure for those 2 diseases. Prevention will be the best route because if neurodegeneration effects a portion of the brain that stores unique fragments of knowledge and memory then they can never truly be recovered even if the neurodegenerative disease was 100% cured. The person would have to re-learn anything that was lost and form new memories. Although the brain has some limited amount of redundancy that protects information.
    Last edited by PC2; 2020-09-01 at 12:54 AM.
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    A problem consists of a conflict between two ideas. Problems are soluble.
    Fallacies: Ad hominem, Generalizing history to predetermine the future.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Lol re youtube for source material. If you have some articles or other cites, I'd be glad to take a look at them.

    Is there is good version of the maglev metro system up and running now?
    The source material is from an actual qualified scientist who actually shows you, quite fundamentally, why it will not work. Not my problem you're going to ignore it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I mean, seriously, what is your problem with this guy?


    He's a fuckhead.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I think it is possible to prevent or cure Alzheimer's and Parkinson's in the far future but I have no clue about the what the solution is. As far as a brain implant like Neuralink my guess is that it could only help to manage symptoms and it won't actually be a cure for those 2 diseases. Prevention will be the best route because if neurodegeneration effects a portion of the brain that stores unique fragments of knowledge and memory then they can never truly be recovered even if the neurodegenerative disease was 100% cured. The person would have to re-learn anything that was lost and form new memories. Although the brain has some limited amount of redundancy that protects information.
    It's a really really tuff problem, as you see in those images the amount of brain cell death can be extreamly extensive in altzhimers, the ability to read a brain and use that to control something external isn't much use when the issue is there's Alot less brain due to the degeneration

    Only possible path I can see is down the road of stem cells. Or some form of grafting cloned blank brain matter for the brain to adapt. But that might as well be scify.

    Unfortunately atm, early prevention is all we have. Just wish my nan hadn't been such a proud and stubborn woman and gon to the docs when me and my dad told her to instead of just passing it of as "getting old and forgetful"

  4. #64
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    The source material is from an actual qualified scientist who actually shows you, quite fundamentally, why it will not work. Not my problem you're going to ignore it.
    I'm not watching a youtube video - those are the most ridiculous sources of information, and the bane of scientific evidence. If you have what you claim, link it, and I'll take a look. Otherwise, don't be like those anti-science people, who ask us to prove their points. Be better than that, please.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I'm not watching a youtube video - those are the most ridiculous sources of information, and the bane of scientific evidence. If you have what you claim, link it, and I'll take a look. Otherwise, don't be like those anti-science people, who ask us to prove their points. Be better than that, please.
    How can you claim it's ridiculous without even watching it? This isn't some kind of spook we're talking about here. The dude's an actual, qualified professional. He's also debunked stuff like solar roads, etc. You're just ignoring it because it actually doesn't jive well with the Hyperloop nonsense, something you consistently defend even though there are actual engineering and economical problems associated with it. That's something the video I linked points out, if you bothered watching it actually explains why it's not viable (at least not in the vision that was originally planned). You can keep denying reality all you like - the science doesn't agree with the concept.

    What you call the "Hyperloop" that is planned in some countries is a glorified metro that doesn't even promise the speeds and times the entire concept (or Musk actually) promised. Not to mention such ideas have been around well before Musk, so he can't exactly take credit for it.

    This anti-intellectualism is staggering. Going to ignore evidence just because it happens to be on YouTube, despite being clear and scientifically accurate (as well as his other debunking videos)? How about something like Numberphile? Periodic Videos? You're as stubborn as a child - not unlike your avatar actually. Actually, it suits you because you sound like Trump here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    I expect people with degrees in science (& business) to be able to perform basic cost/benefit analyses and at least know about some basic principles in physics like thermodynamics.

    I know you are a fan boy of his, so you will probably not be able to grasp this, but this guy has more than disqualified himself on multiple occasions.

    Edit: Also not all uni programms are created equally, something everyone knows that has seen one from the inside.
    It's quite hilarious how these Musk disciples flail around his every word whereas if they had a basic understanding of physics, they'd realise that the Hyperloop just isn't going to work.

    Is physics actually taught in US schools these days?
    Last edited by Fargus; 2020-09-01 at 07:09 PM.

  6. #66
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    How can you claim it's ridiculous without even watching it? This isn't some kind of spook we're talking about here. The dude's an actual, qualified professional. He's also debunked stuff like solar roads, etc. You're just ignoring it because it actually doesn't jive well with the Hyperloop nonsense, something you consistently defend even though there are actual engineering and economical problems associated with it. That's something the video I linked points out, if you bothered watching it actually explains why it's not viable (at least not in the vision that was originally planned). You can keep denying reality all you like - the science doesn't agree with the concept.

    What you call the "Hyperloop" that is planned in some countries is a glorified metro that doesn't even promise the speeds and times the entire concept (or Musk actually) promised. Not to mention such ideas have been around well before Musk, so he can't exactly take credit for it.

    This anti-intellectualism is staggering. Going to ignore evidence just because it happens to be on YouTube, despite being clear and scientifically accurate (as well as his other debunking videos)? How about something like Numberphile? Periodic Videos? You're as stubborn as a child - not unlike your avatar actually. Actually, it suits you because you sound like Trump here.
    We aren't going to watch a 25 minute video because you can't find the guy's source material. I'm not ignoring the evidence, I'm just not taking some guy's word for it - I want to see his data. You've watched the video, just shoot us the links. The issue isn't anti-science or anti-intellectualism, it's that I don't need to waste my time to prove your point.

    It is interesting that you spend all this time ridiculing and attacking me, instead of just finding this material his citing, isn't it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    It's quite hilarious how these Musk disciples flail around his every word whereas if they had a basic understanding of physics, they'd realise that the Hyperloop just isn't going to work.
    Yep - figured you go here after your little rant above. Those people who can't put forth actual data usually run down the "fan boi" road, hoping with all their little immature hope that this will deflect the issue. Just adorable.

    If you have information, please link it. If your source is so super cool awesome in his little video, then I'm sure the material he cites is available to link. Please don't make us do your work for you. That's what a Trumpkin does.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    Is physics actually taught in US schools these days?
    I heard Stanford has a pretty good program...you know, the doctoral program Musk got into...
    Last edited by cubby; 2020-09-02 at 03:34 AM.

  7. #67
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    If they can read information from your brain, they can write information to your brain.

    Regardless of what you think of Musk (and if you don't think very little of him, you need to become better informed about him), you don't want any company / person with that kind of access to you.

  8. #68
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    If they can read information from your brain, they can write information to your brain.
    Only in the sense that they can deliver an electrical impulse into the implanted threads. Neuroscientists barely know anything about the brain so they can't meaningfully write information in a way that relates to a real world application.
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    Fallacies: Ad hominem, Generalizing history to predetermine the future.

  9. #69
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    If they can read information from your brain, they can write information to your brain.

    Regardless of what you think of Musk (and if you don't think very little of him, you need to become better informed about him), you don't want any company / person with that kind of access to you.
    I don't know enough about it, but I would imagine the goal is to make it a two-way process, so yeah, read and input. Not sure if that second part was aimed at me or everyone in general, but I agree that having that kind of power carries with it many problems. I would imagine, however, that if the result of this research was the development of a cure for Alzheimers, people might be ok with others having that kind of access to their brain.
    Last edited by cubby; 2020-09-01 at 08:50 PM.

  10. #70
    My first thought is people will use this instead of narcotics. Get a chip implanted that directly stimulates dopamine production and stay at an eternal high as long as you want. Cocaine, nicotine, alcohol, etc all become obsolete. Even coffee is phased out. Wake up in the morning, press a button, get a jolt of good feelings and get to work.

  11. #71
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Die View Post
    My first thought is people will use this instead of narcotics. Get a chip implanted that directly stimulates dopamine production and stay at an eternal high as long as you want. Cocaine, nicotine, alcohol, etc all become obsolete. Even coffee is phased out. Wake up in the morning, press a button, get a jolt of good feelings and get to work.
    Except that can't work because your brain can't be tricked into feeling euphoria over the long-term. The feeling would become normalized and the person would have to turn off the brain device for some amount of time before the euphoria stimulator could have an effect again.

    People shouldn't even want such a device in the first place because it's a bad idea to experience unearned euphoria.
    -------
    A problem consists of a conflict between two ideas. Problems are soluble.
    Fallacies: Ad hominem, Generalizing history to predetermine the future.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Except that can't work because your brain can't be tricked into feeling euphoria over the long-term. The feeling would become normalized and the person would have to turn off the brain device for some amount of time before the euphoria stimulator could have an effect again.

    People shouldn't even want such a device in the first place because it's a bad idea to experience unearned euphoria.
    Even the notion of creating ANOTHER addictive entity, is so incredibly monumentally bad when we look at how much life is ruined and distraught by our current addictive substances and behaviours.

    Which is why, yeah, unearned euphoria is one of the greatest hurdles of mankind's sanity and well being.
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Except that can't work because your brain can't be tricked into feeling euphoria over the long-term. The feeling would become normalized and the person would have to turn off the brain device for some amount of time before the euphoria stimulator could have an effect again.

    People shouldn't even want such a device in the first place because it's a bad idea to experience unearned euphoria.
    It may be a bad idea but it will become widespread guaranteed.

  14. #74
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Die View Post
    It may be a bad idea but it will become widespread guaranteed.
    Agreed. There is no way this tech won't lead to that feature (amongst many others) and there is no way that feature won't be for sale. In fact, in a deep bit of irony, it might fund the continued development of the tech.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Agreed. There is no way this tech won't lead to that feature (amongst many others) and there is no way that feature won't be for sale. In fact, in a deep bit of irony, it might fund the continued development of the tech.
    "We gotta sell crack cocain to further technology". Sorry, but it was too good, not to make a level of fun off
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    We aren't going to watch a 25 minute video because you can't find the guy's source material. I'm not ignoring the evidence, I'm just not taking some guy's word for it - I want to see his data. You've watched the video, just shoot us the links. The issue isn't anti-science or anti-intellectualism, it's that I don't need to waste my time to prove your point.

    It is interesting that you spend all this time ridiculing and attacking me, instead of just finding this material his citing, isn't it?




    Yep - figured you go here after your little rant above. Those people who can't put forth actual data usually run down the "fan boi" road, hoping with all their little immature hope that this will deflect the issue. Just adorable.

    If you have information, please link it. If your source is so super cool awesome in his little video, then I'm sure the material he cites is available to link. Please don't make us do your work for you. That's what a Trumpkin does.




    I heard Stanford has a pretty good program...you know, the doctoral program Musk got into...
    You don't speak for everyone here, couple of people called you out on your BS. Not sure what "links" you want but I think basic principles of thermodynamics doesn't need a 100 paper thesis, where an explanation from a qualified scientist will actually do. Maybe that's not good enough for you because you're too lazy to go through thunderf00t's calculations, or are afraid you can't refute them. Been several years pal, we've yet to get the Hyperloop Musk was sure of getting.

  17. #77
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howel View Post
    "We gotta sell crack cocain to further technology". Sorry, but it was too good, not to make a level of fun off
    Lol, yeah. But seriously, how much funding for other drugs did Viagra create when it went to market?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    You don't speak for everyone here, couple of people called you out on your BS. Not sure what "links" you want but I think basic principles of thermodynamics doesn't need a 100 paper thesis, where an explanation from a qualified scientist will actually do. Maybe that's not good enough for you because you're too lazy to go through thunderf00t's calculations, or are afraid you can't refute them. Been several years pal, we've yet to get the Hyperloop Musk was sure of getting.
    We just want the data from the video you (and others before you) claim "proves" the Hyperloop won't work. I love that you think this is the first time weve seen this video linked as "evidence" that Musk's Hyperloop won't work. I will continue to ask, as I always do, show me the articles the guy in this video (or any other) cites or uses to "debunk" the Hyperloop. If it's something as simple as the laws of thermodynamics, then there should be a relatively "simple" article/publication to point at, showing the fundamental flaws of the Hyperloop. And all we've ever asked is to see those documents. Which you and your ilk never seem to have time to find. Weird, isn't it?

    Meanwhile, you Musk hate-machines always pull this out, and die on this hill, because YOU and your ilk don't look at the sources of the videos you watch. What you fail to realize is that several dozen cities in multiple countries are working on their own Hyperloop projects - vis a vis Musk or Virgin or other companies. You and your ilk claim that one 'lil video "debunks the whole thing". Now, if that were the case, if that were actually true, why are so many cities and countries signing on for these programs? Do you think they all just ignore science and fall for the sales pitch? ALL of them?

    What's really sad is that you, when challenged, launched into some diatribe about anti-intellectualism and how we're ignoring science. The sad irony is that you are your own worst demon, ignoring the science found on multiple fronts showing how this will come to fruition - and you're doing that by relying on one pathetic video.

    Also, couple of articles for you to review, once you overcome your addition to youtube videos:

    Physics World - I bet they know about the laws of thermodynamics!
    Scientific America
    University of California Berkeley
    Oh no! India fell for the "scam" too!
    Here is an article laying out the problems with Hyperloop, BUT NOT BECAUSE OF THE SCIENCE. I guess they missed your adorable little youtube video.

    To quote one of the all time great lines from the MCU: I can do this all day.
    (huge points if you can give me the next line, from the same character)

    Let us know if you need more articles!
    Last edited by cubby; 2020-09-02 at 07:10 PM.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Lol, yeah. But seriously, how much funding for other drugs did Viagra create when it went to market?
    I'd say Viagra is a tad less serious than hallucinogenics, just saying
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  19. #79
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howel View Post
    I'd say Viagra is a tad less serious than hallucinogenics, just saying
    I am not going to disagree with you there. I was pointing it out only for the analogous features of taking a pleasure based drug to market thereby creating a huge pool of R&D money.

    But yeah - I would say it's an order of magnitude beyond Viagra.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I am not going to disagree with you there. I was pointing it out only for the analogous features of taking a pleasure based drug to market thereby creating a huge pool of R&D money.

    But yeah - I would say it's an order of magnitude beyond Viagra.
    Glad we can agree on that
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

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