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  1. #1
    I am Murloc! Arch-Angel of Riots's Avatar
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    Question Old zones as part of future expansion content?

    Let's talk about Val'sharah and let us be honest about it. Wasn't it just shoe-horned into Legion to have a story that could advance the whole Emerald Dream story-thread? Couldn't they just as well had used Ashenvale, Stonetalon Mountains or Felwood for it?

    There are so many open story threads yet left to be told, but I can't imagine that they can keep up shoe-horning zones into new expansions just to keep telling them. Or maybe they could, but personally I wouldn't have minded if all the quests and stories we did in Val'sharah we would've done in Ashenvale instead, for example. Or does that take some hype away from the game?

    I think actually I might be more hyped about an expansion if I knew old zones were going to be revamped up to the standards of zone design today. The old stories and old zones carry a lot of nostalgic weight which I'd like to explore.


    How do you feel about this?
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    Let's talk about Val'sharah and let us be honest about it. Wasn't it just shoe-horned into Legion to have a story that could advance the whole Emerald Dream story-thread? Couldn't they just as well had used Ashenvale, Stonetalon Mountains or Felwood for it?

    There are so many open story threads yet left to be told, but I can't imagine that they can keep up shoe-horning zones into new expansions just to keep telling them. Or maybe they could, but personally I wouldn't have minded if all the quests and stories we did in Val'sharah we would've done in Ashenvale instead, for example. Or does that take some hype away from the game?

    I think actually I might be more hyped about an expansion if I knew old zones were going to be revamped up to the standards of zone design today. The old stories and old zones carry a lot of nostalgic weight which I'd like to explore.


    How do you feel about this?
    Using old zones always brings the problem with it, that the old story threats are still there. I would like for wow to just time jump 20 years and update EVERY zone to a current place. Or just restrict access to half of them an bring them in one after another in patch content.

    Picking one zone here and there always feels weird as every other zone around it basically exists in a different time at that moment.

    So i am for all or nothing. Best way would be (imho) to close ALL zones. Update 8 for alliance and 8 for horde. And open up more zones as time goes on and with that try to keep everything coherent and current. Clean slate so to say. That would be my WoW 2.0
    Last edited by VinceVega; 2020-08-28 at 08:29 AM.

  3. #3
    i think touching up old zones is fine for side content, but not the major content. e.g. darkshore and arathi was fine, but vale/uldum felt more like cutting corners.

    also of all the legion zones, valsharah probably had the most pre-existing lore.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    i think touching up old zones is fine for side content, but not the major content. e.g. darkshore and arathi was fine, but vale/uldum felt more like cutting corners.

    also of all the legion zones, valsharah probably had the most pre-existing lore.
    I'm fine with updating old zones, if the updates are permanent. Part of the reason the story feels weak or not impactful is the presence of a fucking NPC that teleports me back to the original state of the zone. Actions have consequences, and they should be represented in the inability to go back to the way things were.

  5. #5
    I don't particularly mind how they went about doing 8.3 content in Vale of Eternal Blossoms or Uldum, but I would've definitely preferred an actual Nyalotha zone done Argus style. The sleeping city was one of the last known areas left "on Azeroth" that we haven't explored at this point, and the conclusion of 8.3 basically means we'll never get to explore it proper.

    I think reusing old zones is a smart decision though, and also inevitable. But if they reuse 5 zones (Tirisfal sort of, Arathi, Darkshore, Vale and Uldum) in BFA, maybe a couple in the expansion following SL etc etc, eventually Azeroth will be a disjointed mess at level cap.
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  6. #6
    I am Murloc! Arch-Angel of Riots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    also of all the legion zones, valsharah probably had the most pre-existing lore.
    Well, yeah... because it was using old storylines to continue.

    There are lots of old storylines like that, say for example some of the storylines in the Burning Steppes or Loch Modan, or the Barrens.

    But would you expect them to create a new zone everytime on an entirely new continent just to continue those storylines in new expansions?
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  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    i think touching up old zones is fine for side content, but not the major content. e.g. darkshore and arathi was fine, but vale/uldum felt more like cutting corners.

    also of all the legion zones, valsharah probably had the most pre-existing lore.
    Well, they kind of done it in reverse... Like... Arathi/Darkshore are super bland but the maps are actually updated. And Uldum/Vale are NOT updated but have actual current content that you need to do for more than mere cosmetics.

    The perfect thing would have been to do both things at the same time... It's so half assed man...
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  8. #8
    Dreadlord Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Well, they kind of done it in reverse... Like... Arathi/Darkshore are super bland but the maps are actually updated. And Uldum/Vale are NOT updated but have actual current content that you need to do for more than mere cosmetics.

    The perfect thing would have been to do both things at the same time... It's so half assed man...
    To be fair, Arathi was extremely outdated visually as it didn't even get a rewamp in Cata, unlike Darkshore, while Uldum and Vale still looks fairly good to today's standard.

    But I agree it kinda felt weird we barely touched the remade zones after their initial introduction and we definitely should have done more with them.

  9. #9
    at this point i'd just like them to keep their grimy hands off old stuff and just cram their fanfic into conveniently new areas

  10. #10
    Dreadlord Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    Well, yeah... because it was using old storylines to continue.

    There are lots of old storylines like that, say for example some of the storylines in the Burning Steppes or Loch Modan, or the Barrens.

    But would you expect them to create a new zone everytime on an entirely new continent just to continue those storylines in new expansions?
    I think their hesitance to reuse old zones is due to several things:
    1. The devs at Blizzard today did not make the original zones and don't have the same affection to them.
    2. The devs wants to do something new but want to continue old stories. Having to reuse an old zone does not allow this as you are kinda stuck with keeping it close to the original.
    3. Rewamping a few zones without offering a way to go back ala Cata is unpopular as it deletes the past so all new rewamped zones must have a time dragon in it which messes up the timeline bit by bit and can be confusing to a lot of people.

    I think these factors is why the devs wants to create new places to follow up old stories.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Lakrin's Avatar
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    I think having new max level content in old zones is great, personally. It helps make the world seem alive, and, as you said, there are a lot of story threads that we could still pick up.

    That said, I didn't mind Val'sharah being included in Legion. In fact, I'd say the part that felt disjointed was that the Emerald Nightmare was included in Legion, but I get why they didn't want us fighting just demons all the time, especially coming off of the fel-heavy Hellfire Citadal raid the expansion before.

  12. #12
    Blizzards idea of reusing an old zone is to splash a small corner of it with a bucket of purple paint, then sprinkle a little bit of of the worst WQs they could come up with.

    I'd rather them shoehorn and asspull new zones.

  13. #13
    You can't have it both ways.

    Every single zone that is "current" will be legacy content as soon as the very next expansion launches.
    Should they have updated the Nighthold into an actual capital after the Nightborne joined the horde? Story-wise, yes. Gameplay-wise, no.

    You cannot just keep updating everything to perfectly align with current events, especially since more and more zones are added.
    Every single zone they updated, Darkshore, Arathi, Uldum and Vale are now legacy content. Should they re-update them now a patch later?

    Be realistic please, this is not your offline RPG where the world is dynamically shifting based on the story. This is an MMO.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    i think touching up old zones is fine for side content, but not the major content. e.g. darkshore and arathi was fine, but vale/uldum felt more like cutting corners.

    also of all the legion zones, valsharah probably had the most pre-existing lore.
    I honestly disagree to an extent. Having another expansion where we focus on places we've already been and updating them and making them relevant would be a nice change. Converting another world tree into a new home for the night elves, reclaiming Gilnaes, rebuilding the kingdoms of Arathi and Lordaeron and unlocking them as allied races, building the goblins a new capital city, and having the various factions react to these changes would make a good expansion baseline. Same thing goes for the High Mountain and Nightfallen capitals getting updates to show horde colors. Have a game expansion where the .0 patch is dedicated to world building before the .1-.xx? patches go elsewhere.

  15. #15
    Dreadlord Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Heck I'd say that the small stories we got in Uldum with 8.3 are probably a better use of the zone than the original mess.
    Agree wholeheartedly. I never liked Uldum back in Cata and I usually love Egyptian stuff. It was just so... forgettable. It was either Indiana Jones jokes or nothing else I can think of really.
    The katamari quest was fun to play but story wise the whole zone was meh.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deferionus View Post
    I honestly disagree to an extent. Having another expansion where we focus on places we've already been and updating them and making them relevant would be a nice change. Converting another world tree into a new home for the night elves, reclaiming Gilnaes, rebuilding the kingdoms of Arathi and Lordaeron and unlocking them as allied races, building the goblins a new capital city, and having the various factions react to these changes would make a good expansion baseline. Same thing goes for the High Mountain and Nightfallen capitals getting updates to show horde colors. Have a game expansion where the .0 patch is dedicated to world building before the .1-.xx? patches go elsewhere.
    There is a problem with that though. Do you plan to update the entire world or just a few zones here and there? Because then only a few we might end up with the disjointed feel Cata had.
    I am not against it though, I just see a few problems to make it reality. Phasing should not be an issue though.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    Well, yeah... because it was using old storylines to continue.

    There are lots of old storylines like that, say for example some of the storylines in the Burning Steppes or Loch Modan, or the Barrens.

    But would you expect them to create a new zone everytime on an entirely new continent just to continue those storylines in new expansions?
    val'sharah and suramar are zones that have featured in novels so it would actually be weirder if they retconned those just to make the stories fit in other zones.

    and yes i do expect them to make entirely new zones/continents every major patch. cause that way they can't cheapskate out of it, and they certainly would these days.

    Look at ashenvale you mentioned earlier for example, that zone has been retouched 3-4 times by now? still large parts with the vanilla terrain. Look at 8.3, that's just a dozen art assets copy pasted on top of it.

    that level of effort is fine if it's some minor content, but it's not something you wanna put on the box art of your expansion.

    it would be okay if they did another cata scale revamp, but i don't really see that happening.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2020-08-28 at 03:21 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakheth View Post
    Agree wholeheartedly. I never liked Uldum back in Cata and I usually love Egyptian stuff. It was just so... forgettable. It was either Indiana Jones jokes or nothing else I can think of really.
    The katamari quest was fun to play but story wise the whole zone was meh.

    - - - Updated - - -



    There is a problem with that though. Do you plan to update the entire world or just a few zones here and there? Because then only a few we might end up with the disjointed feel Cata had.
    I am not against it though, I just see a few problems to make it reality. Phasing should not be an issue though.
    There are design challenges in making it feel good. My immediate thought is to do several Suramar styled quest series that spans regions of zones and not a singular one. You start the Lordaeron chain in Stormwind with Calia for example to help rebuild Lordaeron, and you meet with a collection of people to rebuild it and set out by ship to Tirisfal. Once there you set up camp, and then begin removing the plague from around Undercity. Then you do quests to clean out monsters that have occupied the area and go to surrounding areas to gather resources. Once the city is partially restored you go set up outposts in Silverpine and WPL, and help settlers rebuild Andorhal or another city by doing similar styled quests. As you do these quests the area is phased to show your progress, until the end result is a restored Kingdom of Lordaeron. You could even make these quests the leveling process to the level cap of the expansion. Do the same thing for Gilnaes, the Dwarves rebulilding their dam and other race appropriate stories. At max level you get access to a zone or two akin to Suramar and you have it as your end game zone.

    End result of this expansion is essentially phasing all of Kalimdore and Eastern Kingdoms into a new world state as players complete the quests. I think it would feel much better than Cataclysm because every zone would become a max level zone with end game content and not just 5 zones separated by low level areas. And you don't impact low levels because they are in a different phase. You have your existing time walking mechanics to make it so you can play with low level friends.

  18. #18
    I personally would like to see old zones be given an Arathi Highlands like treatment.

    At some point you run out of new landmasses, and you run out of new dimensions and alternate timelines to travel to.

    So give old zones with a ton of history an update, turn the Burning Steppes into the hellish landscape that the developers envisioned ten years ago, and have the Plaguelands be purged of their corruption that the Argent Crusade has been trying to cleanse since Cataclysm.

    Reflect what happens in the canon lore in the game, do something with Gilneas, turn it into a hub, restore Mechagon for the gnomes in something other than their heritage armor quest, that kind of thing, turn Azeroth into a WORLD instead of just set dressing for our latest adventures.

    Westfall has been stuck in time since Cataclysm and I personally am more invested in whatever the hell is going on there than some dimension that was invented for an expansion.
    Last edited by LarryFromHumanResources; 2020-08-28 at 06:05 PM.
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  19. #19
    Ah yes, because everybody remembers the Cataclysm fondly and not a single solitary soul has ever lamented the fact that it irreversibly changed the old world.

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