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  1. #61
    I am Murloc! Arch-Angel of Riots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    Lets be honest the same garbage class design is in effect. Why buy Shadowlands? Hunters and shaman are still garbage. Rogue and Mage are still gods in all gameplay facets.
    I'm assuming that you're talking about 2v2 pvp.

    And even if you are, and might be right that some comps might be stronger than others, I don't see how it's relevant. You can still get the highest rankings even if not playing the meta.

    Other than that, what you're arguing for is homogenization among the classes so you can deal with every comp that is thrown your way. This is objectively -not- what the playerbase wants overall for the game.
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Who fucking cares? There will never be a time when all DPS classes will be considered fine. It's never happened in the past. It'll never happen again in the future. What the fuck is the point of this thread other than to fuel the anti-Shadowlands circlejerk that's oh-so-fucking new and refreshing?

    Who cares the same DPS are always shit and the same DPS are on top? Why are you playing this game?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    I'm assuming that you're talking about 2v2 pvp.

    And even if you are, and might be right that some comps might be stronger than others, I don't see how it's relevant. You can still get the highest rankings even if not playing the meta.

    Other than that, what you're arguing for is homogenization among the classes so you can deal with every comp that is thrown your way. This is objectively -not- what the playerbase wants overall for the game.

    Homogenization allowing others specs like WW, Enhance, Ret or Feral to ever be top dps is homogenization? Seriously?

  3. #63
    I am Murloc! Arch-Angel of Riots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    Homogenization allowing others specs like WW, Enhance, Ret or Feral to ever be top dps is homogenization? Seriously?
    You were complaining about rogues and hunters. Hunters -are- arguably the top DPS atm in general for most fights in PvE content and I don't think Feral is doing all that bad either last I checked (just that not many are playing it).
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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    Top 6 top 5. Woohoo you made it! Woohoo, hey y'all I'm top 5 omg. Thank you! I'm so proud. When I say top, I'm saying TOP as in number 1.
    Eternal Palace - Top 1 Shadow Priest -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/23
    Crucible of Storms - Top 1 Shadow Priest -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/22
    Battle of Dazar - Top 1 Ele Shaman -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/21
    Uldir - Top 1 Demo Warlock -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...cs/19#region=2
    Antorus - Top 1 Aff Warlock -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/17
    Tomb of Sargeras - Top 1 Aff Warlock -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/13
    Nighthold - Top 1 Aff Warlock -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/11
    Trial of Valor - Top 1 Shadow Priest -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/12
    Emerald Nightmare - Top 1 Shadow Priest -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/10
    Hellfire Citadel - Top 1 Arcane Mage -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/8 <- Hooray! The first mage!
    Blackrock Foundry - Top 1 Fire Mage -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/7
    Highmaul - Top 1 Fire Mage -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/6
    WoD CM's - Top 1 Ass Rogue -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/3 <- First Rogue!


    You're right, there's absolutely been NOTHING except Mages and Rogues sitting at number 1 on the rankings since MoP
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    i find it hard to believe some random raid from BFA would draw in more players than the battleground patch in classic
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    FruitySalad boy, this is a fantastic thread and is really going places. I just want to make sure I'm on page one of what is bound to be a long lasting and productive thread. It's amazing there are no other threads discussing the squish, as I'm confident you would have just posted in them if they did exist.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    And yet the same DPS are kings and the same DPS are shit. Show me when a Ret, WW, Enhance, Feral have been top dps. You think its perfectly ok that the same classes are on top and the same are middle or bottom is ok? You dont play the specs constantly on the bottom. Imagine being a WW monk in raids? What an awful existence.
    But to you thats fine thats life. Keep subbing and stfu.

    Like its been said already - you can never create a perfect balance, unless you had 10 indentic classes with different animations. Im very glad there still is some class indentity in the game.

    In my opinion - yes there are some “trends” in the game top charts but not that huge that it would make normal ppl not enjoy the game and refusing ppl to take those classes in the raids unless you wanna be “first realm” or so. And i think its ok, youre complaining that hybrids dont do same or better as pure dps. Ret paladin is never as squishy as a mage. (for example) - which is a vanilla kind of view (that pure is better than hybrid but less versatile) and yea, game design changed since vanilla, but this is ok for me.
    Last edited by koppi; 2020-08-29 at 07:10 AM.
    Chin up lil pup.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Just look thru Legion on Warcraftlogs.com. Multiple fights where the top 10 dps parses have rets, some with Elemental, some with Enhancment, there’s even one with Feral in the top 10. Hell, top 10 on Skorpyron even has a SV Hunter. Are they dominating the top 10’s? No, but they are there.
    That’s also only the top 10. I didn’t even attempt to dive further to see how close they all are.
    By the way, I only chose Legion because you stated that’s the last time you played and it counters your own argument that Mages and Rogues are OP and dominate every single fight and every other spec is garbage terrible.

    Top ten DPS? Who honestly gives a shit about top 10? Oh woohoo I'm in tenth place! I FINALLY MADE YALL! Top ten? Are you serious? You feel good about tenth place? Rolfmao.

    GUYS IM TENTH PLACE OUT OF 11 DPS!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!

    Can you imagine the glee. I'm in a raid with 13 dps and I'm top ten I knew my hard work would pay off! Thank you Blizzard.
    Last edited by Sunslayer; 2020-08-29 at 07:10 AM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    Top ten DPS? Who honestly gives a shit about top 10? Oh woohoo I'm in tenth place! I FINALLY MADE YALL! Top ten? Are you serious? You feel good about tenth place? Rolfmao.

    GUYS IM TENTH PLACE OUT OF 11 DPS!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!
    Lmao guy says he is top parsing and doesnt understand this simple concept. If the first 9 are all same class and the tenth is feral then he is second out of 11 dps classes not tenth. One spec always has to be the best so being second best is not that bad

    Ive been best parsing Hunter of whole WoW since vanilla and I know we are in a good spot usually esp since dps isnt the only thing that matter (except in bad guilds which I think youve played oi)
    Last edited by facefist; 2020-08-29 at 07:15 AM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by facefist View Post
    Lmao guy says he is top parsing and doesnt understand this simple concept. If the first 9 are all same class and the tenth is feral then he is second out of 11 dps classes not tenth. One spec always has to be the best so being second best is not that bad

    You are super delusional

    Doesnt understand the concept? If I aint top dps fuck all else
    How simple is that for you to undersyand? And since you dont seem to grasp what I'm saying "top" dps is number 1 nothing else.
    Look, I get it. Its the era of 15th place trophies. I'm not in your "everyone wins generation". You win or you lose. Its first or nothing. Every spec should be able to get 1st if they play better.

    I get that in your generation, 12th place is as good as 1st place. I'm not from your soft ass generation.
    Last edited by Sunslayer; 2020-08-29 at 07:19 AM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    Thanks. I needed a good laugh. "Mages werent that good before that". Mages are absurdly strong for the entire BfA expansion for Pvp. Also? You really don't remember the 17 thousands posts begging for Fire Mage nerfs in Legion. Come on dude.
    No, mages were not top picks during progress in any tier in Legion.
    You're not at a level where this matters anyway. Hunter will probably fit you better.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    Top ten DPS? Who honestly gives a shit about top 10? Oh woohoo I'm in tenth place! I FINALLY MADE YALL! Top ten? Are you serious? You feel good about tenth place? Rolfmao.

    GUYS IM TENTH PLACE OUT OF 11 DPS!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!

    Can you imagine the glee. I'm in a raid with 13 dps and I'm top ten I knew my hard work would pay off! Thank you Blizzard.
    Top 10 dps overall. Mage and Rogue don’t even hold the top spot in many of them. Your own argument is flawed in that there is specific proof you’re wrong when it comes to overall damage.
    You’re also arguing a personal spot out of your own raid, which also makes no sense unless in your example you have 9 Mages/Rogues and 2 other dps. So maybe think about your response a little bit before you hit post.
    Your response also evokes memories of the idiots that always reply loudly and sarcastically because they think it makes them correct when all it does is make them look even more ignorant of the facts and laughable by anyone who happens to witness it.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    Doesnt understand the concept? If I aint top dps fuck all else
    So your argument is "The class and spec that i play absolutely must be #1 dps in the game, or class design and class balance are shit, and nothing else matters"

    And there we have it - the death of a thread. What a shame.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    So your argument is "The class and spec that i play absolutely must be #1 dps in the game, or class design and class balance are shit, and nothing else matters"

    And there we have it - the death of a thread. What a shame.
    In this case he does play one, if not the strongest class in PvE though. "Funny", huh?

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    Doesnt understand the concept? If I aint top dps fuck all else
    How simple is that for you to undersyand? And since you dont seem to grasp what I'm saying "top" dps is number 1 nothing else.
    Look, I get it. Its the era of 15th place trophies. I'm not in your "everyone wins generation". You win or you lose. Its first or nothing. Every spec should be able to get 1st if they play better.

    I get that in your generation, 12th place is as good as 1st place. I'm not from your soft ass generation.
    Lmao imagine taking video game so seriously that u cant play unless the design favours your class. I bet u quit everything irl as well unless things are catered towards you as.

    The biggest losers are those who quit if they aren't given edge against others by default. Boohoo I won't play piano because the best pianist in the world has taller fingers. Boohoo I won't play basketball because I'm not as tall as my friend so he has advantage over me

    Get good so you can overcome the small disadvantages. If you think your so good that the small difference matters go play cs/dota or something and make millions from it because class design doesnt play part there
    Last edited by facefist; 2020-08-29 at 08:25 AM.

  14. #74
    I don't know OP, like it took you three attempts to correctly spell "design" so I am unsure if I should take you seriously regarding this topic

  15. #75
    sunslayer must be this 0,001% of top of the top competitive players that must min-max his dmg to the very end and they nerf his class in shadowland and he don't like rerolling that why he cry for sure! outer word you don't need to be top dps you don't need to do highest dmg in the raid to be taken to it and have fun!

  16. #76
    op is definitely right with his opinion, sorry but trying to prove there are other top dps classes is stupid and ignorant...

    because correct me if i'm wrong but, the issue here is not about mage and rogue is top dps all the time literally, yea there were times other classes and specs shone too, we all know that, dont try to research logs over the last 10 years and bring proof, we know, but the issue is some classes/specs are always useful and some are redundant, no matter what, please dont protect the game devs on that, its their job to make these classes balanced at some point and they definitely cant make this work.

    for example i've played ret all these years because i love the spec and the aesthetics, but this expansion i will reroll to rogue just because its way easier to get in groups and actually be useful. now you might say "paladins can heal and tank too, so you cant expect them to be good in dps as a pure dps class", ok but then ill ask you this "why the hell is there such a spec as ret then?". i mean if i cant be as good as a pure dps'er ok, but then its devs responsibility to create a spot for my spec, because they are the ones who created this spec in the first place!

    in this game there are useless specs, and devs dont do anything to solve this problem, if a ret cant be a good dps as a pure dps class because a paladin can heal and tank too, then create some kind of a utility dps spot which can be filled by a hybrid dps, im not obsessed with dps numbers and stuff,i just want this game to give my favourite spec a spot to fill, bring the player not the class? anyone? yea right...

    back to the topic, this game was and will always be about pure class roles, but there are actually hybrid specs, expansions and expansions devs never do anything brave to actually fix it. so devs, just remove these useless hybrids at once or just come up with a new system where hybrid specs can fit in too...

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Pamir View Post
    op is definitely right with his opinion, sorry but trying to prove there are other top dps classes is stupid and ignorant...

    because correct me if i'm wrong but, the issue here is not about mage and rogue is top dps all the time literally, yea there were times other classes and specs shone too, we all know that, dont try to research logs over the last 10 years and bring proof, we know, but the issue is some classes/specs are always useful and some are redundant, no matter what, please dont protect the game devs on that, its their job to make these classes balanced at some point and they definitely cant make this work.

    for example i've played ret all these years because i love the spec and the aesthetics, but this expansion i will reroll to rogue just because its way easier to get in groups and actually be useful. now you might say "paladins can heal and tank too, so you cant expect them to be good in dps as a pure dps class", ok but then ill ask you this "why the hell is there such a spec as ret then?". i mean if i cant be as good as a pure dps'er ok, but then its devs responsibility to create a spot for my spec, because they are the ones who created this spec in the first place!

    in this game there are useless specs, and devs dont do anything to solve this problem, if a ret cant be a good dps as a pure dps class because a paladin can heal and tank too, then create some kind of a utility dps spot which can be filled by a hybrid dps, im not obsessed with dps numbers and stuff,i just want this game to give my favourite spec a spot to fill, bring the player not the class? anyone? yea right...

    back to the topic, this game was and will always be about pure class roles, but there are actually hybrid specs, expansions and expansions devs never do anything brave to actually fix it. so devs, just remove these useless hybrids at once or just come up with a new system where hybrid specs can fit in too...
    The bottom falls out of any "hybrids are being shit on" argument when you realise that Shadow Priests have been top tier for like 6 years of expansions.

    While it's true that Ret paladins aren't topping the "highest dps possible" charts at the moment, they're still more than capable of completing all the raid content at the moment, and it's ridiculous to call them "useless".

    On the M+ side, Ret is actually one of the more popular Melee DPS specs, sitting at 4th out of 13, with a 7.3% participation rate at M20 and above -> https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...MythicLevel=99

    On the PvP Side, I don't really participate, but a quick glance at https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pvp-stats/classes shows Ret Paladins as solidly in the top 30%, not as high, but still higher than a shit-ton of other specs(RIP Demo Locks and Prot Warriors)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    i find it hard to believe some random raid from BFA would draw in more players than the battleground patch in classic
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    FruitySalad boy, this is a fantastic thread and is really going places. I just want to make sure I'm on page one of what is bound to be a long lasting and productive thread. It's amazing there are no other threads discussing the squish, as I'm confident you would have just posted in them if they did exist.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    I havent played since BfA. Don't act like I'm playing WoW atm.
    12 years non stop playing skipped all of BfA cause this xpac was complete trash. What has changed?
    Then stop making threads about the game on a fan site and seek help for your addiction.
    Last edited by Shaetha; 2020-08-29 at 10:52 AM.

  19. #79
    This is data compiled by Babylonius on comparative mythic raid performance at the 75% percentile across the last three expansions, based on WCL data:



    Source

    This is data compiled by Intricate08 on comparative mythic+ representation, based on each dungeon's top 100 run data from raider.io from 7.2 onwards:





    Source

  20. #80
    I feel exactly the same. Played my DK and my Monk non stop for years. Legion was already a tough pill swallow and BfA was just unbearable so I quit after 8.1. Not doing this for another 2 years.

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