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  1. #41
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasuke06 View Post
    So is every hunter spec. it's a class for people who are either stupid, don't want to try, or try way too fucking hard to be playing hunter but stick with it because it's the only physical ranged class. Did we really need another "push whatever isn't on CD at all times" melee spec?
    That's not how survival works.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    The difference being Mages are Mages. They are masters of Elemental Magic. Hunters aren't required to be guys that only use Bows and Guns. If they were called "Archers" yeah sure. Having a Spec that you can fight alongside your Pet is one of the main draws for many People to a Melee Hunter. Having it be a survivalist who also heavily relies on traps/bombs is also fun.

    I think People that still cry about it now when this will be the 4th Expansion it has been now need to just quit whining and play the other 2 specs if they want a "Ranger" it's not like there is any huge difference between Old Survival and the other Specs anyway. The main defining and pretty much only major spells Survival had that were different were Black Arrow and Explosive Shot. Big wooohooo there guys.
    Well that is the thing , the people who "cry" about melee SV won't stop crying even if SV was made top melee dps and or brought a unique buff, they simply want ranged SV back, doesn't matter if melee SV is buffed to the moon.

    For this expansion (and for the past few expansions) , melee SV endures, whether SV stays melee post SL, I have no idea, but I want to remain hopeful. At some point you either have to reconcile with yourself that SV is a melee spec, so either go MM, BM or play another class.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by kasuke06 View Post
    "push whatever isn't on CD at all times" melee spec?
    and surely we dont need another "push whatever isn't on CD at all times" ranged spec.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    You all cant even describe what was good in Surv Hunter, that define spec. Its has been changed a lot, and has no selling points. Just another hunter spec with same toolkit.
    Mellee is far better for some new ideas. Just poor design and lack of attention from Blizz makes him awfull.

    - - - Updated - - -


    what? we have almost equal amount of ranged/melee specs. 20 melee with tanks and 17 ranged with healers.
    Describe what was good?
    How about objectively? Well, it was another rdps spec. It dealt magic and physical damage done equally, being one of the few specs in game that offered that variety. It was the 2nd rdps spec that was completely mobile. It offered more snap threat to a tank from MD than BM or MM did.
    Anecdotally:
    It was 100% mobile. Felt like Rambo firing off exploding arrows. Fun theme and ability usage. Combined physical and magical damage. More fun than BM or MM. just fun to play in general.
    Also, as I’ve said in other threads that SV, BM, and MM were basically the same exact playstyle with button presses, that doesn’t mean I didn’t find the themes different. So at this point I’d strongly recommend not challenging me based on what I found fun in my time playing the game by stating that I can’t even remember what was good about SV Hunter.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by keyone01 View Post
    Imagine your spec being so bad in terms of participation that it needs SPEC UNIQUE THROUGHPUT "UTILITY" to be even considered and not kicked on sight.
    Exactly right. Giving the spec unique utility doesn't fix the problem, it would just force hunters to play a spec they don't prefer.

    They need to make it sufficiently fun that people will switch to a melee hunter spec. And that is impossible.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2020-08-31 at 05:21 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    You all cant even describe what was good in Surv Hunter, that define spec. Its has been changed a lot, and has no selling points. Just another hunter spec with same toolkit.
    Mellee is far better for some new ideas. Just poor design and lack of attention from Blizz makes him awfull.
    fully mobile, dot based, hybrid damage type (physical + magical) smooth playstyle (say what you want, sv felt smoother to play to me than the other two specs at any given time post-3.0) ranged spec, which uses ranged weapons (my weapons of choice in any game) as well as utilizing empowered traps along with increased melee capability to utilize if necessary (in earlier iterations).

    most of which is lacking with current hunter.

    And no, "increased melee capability" is NOT "melee spec lul"

    Not to mention serpent spread +ISS was the most satisfying button press ever on large packs Multistrike made it hilarious, miss that stat tbh
    Last edited by Kurve1776; 2020-08-31 at 07:33 PM.
    www.twitch.tv/aurakol

    I do not stream seriously or regularly

  7. #47
    Yeah, I loved serpent spread and lock n' load. Old survival was a fun spec. RIP.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Yeah, I loved serpent spread and lock n' load. Old survival was a fun spec. RIP.
    Yuuuup.

    That was by far the most enjoyable spec I've played in WoW, in all modes.

    RIP.

  9. #49
    Elemental Lord Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelantious View Post
    Problem with this is that for me SV was fun in Vanilla and TBC, and then they changed and gutted it to become just another boring ranged spec like MM always was.
    So with your type of viewpoint it means I was here before you, and should get my way. So melee sv it is!
    Survival was never a melee spec, you were just playing it wrong.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    Survival was never a melee spec, you were just playing it wrong.
    ^this

    Survival spec was never Melee, it was focused on utility and traps, and SOME defensive melee upgrades, but it was, without a doubt, still ranged
    www.twitch.tv/aurakol

    I do not stream seriously or regularly

  11. #51
    The vanilla survival talent tree looked like a melee spec, but it could never actually be played competitively in melee. It's like smite priests. You could do it, but you'd suck all over the place. Anyone calling it a melee spec back then either didn't actually play in vanilla or is trolling.

  12. #52
    Elemental Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    It's already the most fun melee class. I'm satisfied with the way it is now.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    It's already the most fun melee class. I'm satisfied with the way it is now.
    I to find SV very fun and yes I know "fun" is subjective etc...

    That being said I think if you where to ask most SV hunters what they wanted come SL, baseline mongoose bite would probably be high on the list. With 2 months to go baseline mongoose bite is probably not going to happen. Anyway I always thought allowing SV to use arcane shot with their pistol crossbow would be neat. Obviously you wouln't let arcane shot do more damage than raptor strike/mongoose bite (or SV really does go back to ranged) but letting SV hunter get in some ranged dps (assuming aspect of the eagle is on cd) when the boss is doing a whirlwind or some attack in which all melee need to go way from the boss would have been neat.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    The difference being Mages are Mages. They are masters of Elemental Magic. Hunters aren't required to be guys that only use Bows and Guns. If they were called "Archers" yeah sure. Having a Spec that you can fight alongside your Pet is one of the main draws for many People to a Melee Hunter. Having it be a survivalist who also heavily relies on traps/bombs is also fun.

    I think People that still cry about it now when this will be the 4th Expansion it has been now need to just quit whining and play the other 2 specs if they want a "Ranger" it's not like there is any huge difference between Old Survival and the other Specs anyway. The main defining and pretty much only major spells Survival had that were different were Black Arrow and Explosive Shot. Big wooohooo there guys.
    You're missing the point. This isn't a question of lore or theme and what it allows. It's one of class identity and gameplay.

    By the time whatever person at Blizzard decided to convert hunters into a melee spec, players had already heavily invested in the existing gameplay and class style that hunter represented. That's why I used the example of mage, and how jarring it would be for one of those specs to suddenly be converted into a melee spec. But it could be any class. Imagine paladins suddenly lost the ability to tank, and get turned into a ranged spec that only throw hammers. Or take subtlety rogues and turn them into healers that only throw "healing smoke bombs" or something equally stupid and meme-worthy.

    The point being that no one besides a handful of players, who didn't understand the class in the first place, wanted "melee hunters". The game didn't need another melee spec. The spec still doesn't fit the game or the theme of the class very well.

    Just telling people to stop crying shows a blatant disregard for the completely legitimate complaint about this change. Don't approach this discussion with such a lack of understanding or willingness to consider things. There's too much hate in the gaming and wow community as it is.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2020-08-31 at 10:07 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    You're missing the point. This isn't a question of lore or theme and what it allows. It's one of class identity and gameplay.

    By the time whatever person at Blizzard decided to convert hunters into a melee spec, players had already heavily invested in the existing gameplay and class style that hunter represented. That's why I used the example of mage, and how jarring it would be for one of those specs to suddenly be converted into a melee spec. But it could be any class. Imagine paladins suddenly lost the ability to tank, and get turned into a ranged spec that only throw hammers. Or take subtlety rogues and turn them into healers that only throw "healing smoke bombs" or something equally stupid and meme-worthy.

    The point being that no one besides a handful of players, who didn't understand the class in the first place, wanted "melee hunters". The game didn't need another melee spec. The spec still doesn't fit the game or the theme of the class very well.

    Just telling people to stop crying shows a blatant disregard for the completely legitimate complaint about this change. Don't approach this discussion with such a lack of understanding or willingness to consider things. There's too much hate in the gaming and wow community as it is.
    Melee SV directly fits into gameplay and class identity. Theme was the only different in Hunter specs before the melee change. The specs were almost 100% interchangeable in button usage and how they were played.
    As to your 2nd part of the post, I agree with most of it. The only issue I take with it is that the only reason melee SV is called a meme spec is because it’s almost completely unplayed due to tuning issues and that it used to be rdps. If it was competitive with other melee it would have more representation. As it is, when it does damn near 30k+ less dps than most average specs on almost every fight, and even more than it’s rdps counterparts, it’s not going to have much of a following.
    I wouldn’t say only a handful of players. I can remember a lot of people bringing up Hunter getting a melee or tanking spec and how fun it could be. That stated, most people that brought it up or talked about it were discussing a new 4th spec, or losing rdps.
    I think the theme is actually pretty fitting of a Hunter as it uses attacks side by side with its pet, as well as using traps, poisons, and contraptions to bring down prey. I don’t think the bombs fit overall, but 1 ability out of all of them is t a huge deal.
    Telling people to stop crying is sound advice, only in the circumstance that person is actually crying over it. I don’t mean a person who is stating facts like an adult and carrying on a conversation. I do mean the people that come across as whiners and people who dismiss others who have valid points.

  16. #56
    Keep the melee sv down more and more till it’s unplayable like they did with range sv then change it back.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsmang View Post
    Why won't survival hunter get any changes?
    Hunter as a whole is being ignored quite a lot. There's only a handful of new talents between all 3 specs and some useless crap like Hunter's Mark and Arcane Shot on all specs, and arcane shot doesn't even make sense for BM and Surv. It's not just survival, BM and MM also have no significant changes at all, except for the incidental nerf of losing azerite. Trueshot got some changes, but it basically plays the same, except focus regen sucks now. There's also still tons of bugs on covenant abilities, so the only new things don't even work correctly.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    Survival was never a melee spec, you were just playing it wrong.
    I never said it was a melee spec in vanilla & tbc, I said it was fun.
    Reading comprehension

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    i'm guessing blizz gave up on trying to make it fun since the survival player base fell off a cliff and continued to drown to the bottom of the ocean after it was made into a melee spec. and considering we were ignored for basically all of the shadowlands testing cycle, i'd expect big changes for the next expac.
    It's always the next expansion damn!

    We need some talent fixes and by making us the only spec that ain't got a change we're being disrespected.

  20. #60
    Mechagnome sunxsera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    What a shitty analogy.

    The class was literally 3 range specs, that had a bunch of crossover moves. how more boring could you get. At least Melee Survival is something different.

    "Something different" doesnt mean it`s good.

    BM hunter with mongoose bite spam. much wow. so different.

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