Why won't survival hunter get any changes?

[trapmaster]

Why do we have 3 ranged mage specs then? They are all the same.

imagine one of the mage spec gone as "battlemage" like physical class as polearm or POLE weapon.

[Dazmalak]

So here's my 2 cents on Survival.

The spec was fun in Legion. It wasn't he strongest, but it was the most fun of the hunter specs, which imo has never been a fun class for me personally. In BfA they gutted everything about it that was fun and we got...something weird. Less focus on traps, a weird bomb attack that seems more in line with a rogue maybe, loss of bleeds, loss of Mongoose Bite baseline, and the result was the loss of its identity. The current Survival hunter doesn't inspire me in any way, and that's a problem. To be fair that was the problem with having 3 archer specs that were barely different from one another most of the time in the first place.

So at the core, what is the melee Survival Hunter supposed to represent from a fantasy view? What comes to my mind are a few characters: Rambo, Drizz't, and the Predator. Ambushing foes, setting up traps, weakening their quarry, and when push comes to shove, standing toe to toe with their opponents like a total bad ass when other options are exhausted.

I think capturing the fantasy of the aforementioned characters would be the first thing survival needs, because it currently lacks an identity and doesn't inspire anyone to want to play it. Go back to bleeds, go back to mongoose bite, drop the bombs, make traps more powerful for them as it should be the staple for their spec, and give them the option to dual wield and the option to go without a pet. After you capture the fantasy, you can give it what it needs, which is a niche. I think empowering its traps for extra utility is a start. Personally I think it should be a burst dps class rather than sustained, and it should excel at single target over aoe.

Let people play the twin blade legolas, the drizz't, the rambo, the troll headhunter stalking the jungle, the predator luring its prey into an ambush. I think the fantasy is there and it can be done, but right now the spec just kind of exists and it seems like blizzard doesn't know or care about what to do with it.

On another note, I also like the idea of a melee mage spec. Battlemage sounds cool. I also like the idea of assassination rogue being ranged...because why would an assassin want to get close to his opponent? I don't care if these replace existing specs, but obviously having them as 4th specs would be more ideal to not upset current players. I get that Survival is a sore spot for a lot of hunter players out there, so I understand the disdain for the spec. But we gotta play with what we're given. And if they're going to give us a melee hunter, it should at least be fun and fill the missing "melee ranger" archetype that WoW has somehow failed at creating for so long.

[Bisque]

So here's my 2 cents on Survival.

The spec was fun in Legion. It wasn't he strongest, but it was the most fun of the hunter specs, which imo has never been a fun class for me personally. In BfA they gutted everything about it that was fun and we got...something weird. Less focus on traps, a weird bomb attack that seems more in line with a rogue maybe, loss of bleeds, loss of Mongoose Bite baseline, and the result was the loss of its identity. The current Survival hunter doesn't inspire me in any way, and that's a problem. To be fair that was the problem with having 3 archer specs that were barely different from one another most of the time in the first place.

So at the core, what is the melee Survival Hunter supposed to represent from a fantasy view? What comes to my mind are a few characters: Rambo, Drizz't, and the Predator. Ambushing foes, setting up traps, weakening their quarry, and when push comes to shove, standing toe to toe with their opponents like a total bad ass when other options are exhausted.

I think capturing the fantasy of the aforementioned characters would be the first thing survival needs, because it currently lacks an identity and doesn't inspire anyone to want to play it. Go back to bleeds, go back to mongoose bite, drop the bombs, make traps more powerful for them as it should be the staple for their spec, and give them the option to dual wield and the option to go without a pet. After you capture the fantasy, you can give it what it needs, which is a niche. I think empowering its traps for extra utility is a start. Personally I think it should be a burst dps class rather than sustained, and it should excel at single target over aoe.

Let people play the twin blade legolas, the drizz't, the rambo, the troll headhunter stalking the jungle, the predator luring its prey into an ambush. I think the fantasy is there and it can be done, but right now the spec just kind of exists and it seems like blizzard doesn't know or care about what to do with it.

On another note, I also like the idea of a melee mage spec. Battlemage sounds cool. I also like the idea of assassination rogue being ranged...because why would an assassin want to get close to his opponent? I don't care if these replace existing specs, but obviously having them as 4th specs would be more ideal to not upset current players. I get that Survival is a sore spot for a lot of hunter players out there, so I understand the disdain for the spec. But we gotta play with what we're given. And if they're going to give us a melee hunter, it should at least be fun and fill the missing "melee ranger" archetype that WoW has somehow failed at creating for so long.

Yes blizz certainly really went the trap route for SV in legion and then abandoned it post legion. I know there where some complaints about traps being used in combat as "clunky" and I assume that is why blizz went for the wildfire bomb route. Now where the complaints enough for blizz to nearly abandon SV as a "master trapper"? I am not sure, I am sure blizz has their own reasons.

For the fantasy, in my eyes SV hunter is the closest thing WoW has to a Tinker, Mechanic or Gearsmith type class whilst still having the bleeds and posions. Now if blizz every does decide to introduce a Mechanic or Tinker class, we will see if melee SV gets adjusted.

[Eapoe]

Just about a month away from prepatch and still no tuning adjustments. Looks to be shit in PvE for yet another xpac.

[Dadwen]

Keep the melee sv down more and more till it’s unplayable like they did with range sv then change it back.

That would be nice, give it the RSV "WOD" treatment.

[Dancaris]

That is quite a lot of ignorant folks here.
"Nobody wants melee hunter", "Its a joke spec", "MY FUN BACK IN WOTLK REMOVED, BLIZZ?!!" and other very inteligent replies here.
Why cant you understand that you are not nearly a majority of players? That there are a big bulk of people, that like it? And want to be like you know, hunters in wow?
Draka from WoD trailer, Rexxar, even Nathanos back in a days. They are all melee. They are hunters. And to remove a melee spec from a class just to support your ego is wrong.
What to do with all of that Highmountain tauren hunters? With Talonclaw? What to do with people, that like that spec? And to revert it to WoTLK times? You will be the first to blame developers for boring spec and absence of ideas.
To me - melee spec should have become BM. Its a better fantasy to iconic hunters. Fighting alongside animals fits more to BM than to SV. And some animal-like spells fits more to BM. Strike like a raptor and with a raptor, sting like a bee.

And to post some BS in forums, just think not only about you.

[idunnowatdo]

That is quite a lot of ignorant folks here.
"Nobody wants melee hunter", "Its a joke spec", "MY FUN BACK IN WOTLK REMOVED, BLIZZ?!!" and other very inteligent replies here.
Why cant you understand that you are not nearly a majority of players? That there are a big bulk of people, that like it? And want to be like you know, hunters in wow?
Draka from WoD trailer, Rexxar, even Nathanos back in a days. They are all melee. They are hunters. And to remove a melee spec from a class just to support your ego is wrong.
What to do with all of that Highmountain tauren hunters? With Talonclaw? What to do with people, that like that spec? And to revert it to WoTLK times? You will be the first to blame developers for boring spec and absence of ideas.
To me - melee spec should have become BM. Its a better fantasy to iconic hunters. Fighting alongside animals fits more to BM than to SV. And some animal-like spells fits more to BM. Strike like a raptor and with a raptor, sting like a bee.

And to post some BS in forums, just think not only about you.

Make melee sv a 4th spec and bring ranged back as spec 3. Why do you think there are less sv hunters than even feral Druids? The spec has always felt flat, legion it felt okay but why be melee? The whole spec is a drag to play. How many sv hunters do you run into in game? I’ve seen maybe 2 in the last 7 days.

[Kurve1776]

That is quite a lot of ignorant folks here.
"Nobody wants melee hunter", "Its a joke spec", "MY FUN BACK IN WOTLK REMOVED, BLIZZ?!!" and other very inteligent replies here.
Why cant you understand that you are not nearly a majority of players? That there are a big bulk of people, that like it? And want to be like you know, hunters in wow?

Doesn't survival have like a 0.5% representation, and is only very slightly more popular than sub rogue?

Pretty sure that classifies non-sv hunters as quite the majority

[Gasparde]

That is quite a lot of ignorant folks here.
"Nobody wants melee hunter", "Its a joke spec", "MY FUN BACK IN WOTLK REMOVED, BLIZZ?!!" and other very inteligent replies here.
Why cant you understand that you are not nearly a majority of players? That there are a big bulk of people, that like it?

What a bunch of horseshit.
SV was among the least 3 represented specs in all areas of PvE for the last 4 years - only Arcane Mage and (recently) Sub Rogues have managed to come close to that level of 'popularity'.

The argument that nobody plays this bloody joke of a spec is based on statistical facts. Your nonsensical reply is based on I disagree so you're obviously part of a vocal minority. Every fucking Hunter and their grandma plays BM, barely anyone ever plays MM, and even less people play fucking SV - that is a numerically proveable fact for the entirety of the last 2 expansions. Your argument has absolutely 0 fucking value because it's just a subjective and anecdotal load of nothing that's based on nothing that says nothing other than you being delusional, ignorant and entitled.

Talking about 'very intelligent' posts you're clearly taking the cake here. Don't talk about stuff you have no clue of - just because you and your buddy enjoy the spec for worldquesting doesn't mean you're part of a silent majority. Show some actual numbers for your alleged pro-SV majority or fuck right off with your ass pulled I disagree so you're wrong 'arguments'.

[Dancaris]

What a bunch of horseshit.
SV was among the least 3 represented specs in all areas of PvE for the last 4 years - only Arcane Mage and (recently) Sub Rogues have managed to come close to that level of 'popularity'.

The argument that nobody plays this bloody joke of a spec is based on statistical facts. Your nonsensical reply is based on I disagree so you're obviously part of a vocal minority. Every fucking Hunter and their grandma plays BM, barely anyone ever plays MM, and even less people play fucking SV - that is a numerically proveable fact for the entirety of the last 2 expansions. Your argument has absolutely 0 fucking value because it's just a subjective and anecdotal load of nothing that's based on nothing that says nothing other than you being delusional, ignorant and entitled.

Talking about 'very intelligent' posts you're clearly taking the cake here. Don't talk about stuff you have no clue of - just because you and your buddy enjoy the spec for worldquesting doesn't mean you're part of a silent majority. Show some actual numbers for your alleged pro-SV majority or fuck right off with your ass pulled I disagree so you're wrong 'arguments'.

Whoa, some rage and ignorance again. Just like i thought, you have 1 argument. Representation. You care not for lore, class fantasy and that people, that maybe like melee hunter, but raidleaders tell them - look at the meta, play a bm. Or mm, for some time. You care not for pvp, you care not for alts and other people too. "I WANT MY SV BACK, BLIZZ" as i said earlier. And for another spectrum, take a look for pvp statistics. Here - https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pvp-stats/classes.
But no, how can some dude to not agreeing with me?! Its a horseshit!!!

[Kurve1776]

Whoa, some rage and ignorance again. Just like i thought, you have 1 argument. Representation. You care not for lore, class fantasy and that people, that maybe like melee hunter, but raidleaders tell them - look at the meta, play a bm. Or mm, for some time. You care not for pvp, you care not for alts and other people too. "I WANT MY SV BACK, BLIZZ" as i said earlier. And for another spectrum, take a look for pvp statistics. Here - https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pvp-stats/classes.
But no, how can some dude to not agreeing with me?! Its a horseshit!!!

lore and class fantasy isnt throwing bombs *shrug*

in pvp both mm and bm are garbage, so naturally most pvp hunters would be survival, and survival just happens to be decent at pvp, but it is only decent at pvp and not much else.

Why are we comparing alts to mains?

And what do you mean by "other people too?"

I don't remember the last time I've seen a sv hunter outside of the occasional one in bgs

Statistics pretty clearly indicate that very, very few people play survival.

" look at the meta, play a bm. Or mm" Survival is actually pretty decent in output rankings. higher than MM actually. But even MM has almost double the amount of logs:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/24

And representation = how many people are playing. Not sure what you're getting at here?

Edit: oh and also https://www.arenamate.net/representation-charts

[Bisque]

Well we got coordinated Assualt off the GCD, so that is something, baby steps...

[Perkunas]

Well we got coordinated Assualt off the GCD, so that is something, baby steps...

Where'd they post that?

[Pigglix]

Where'd they post that?

https://www.wowhead.com/news=317783/...ueshot-and-sto

[schwank05]

I love Melee Hunter and it is the only reason for me to touch my hunter which was sitting at lvl 70 since the death of 1 button BM in BC which was amazing. Now I love my hunter again. I think it was perfect this xpac, but then again I have been top DPS in every dungeon I have ever entered, I just don't waste my time with Mythic and have no issues with a spot since most guilds have trouble getting 15 people to show up for Normal/ Heroic let alone 20 for Mythic.

[Razion]

Sounds like they gave us something nobody asked for and created WAY more work for themselves for something very few people actually play.

Do you think there would be a way for them to have added a Melee spec for Survival as say a 4th spec without increasing the work they would have to do to balance all specs? I ask this because, it seems to me if they had made a copy of Survival as Melee, that people would have felt forced to play ranged due to the benefits and coverage that range can give in encounters and that unless filling melee is something a dungeon or raid group needs to do while at the same time there being not enough melee to cover that demand, it seems otherwise being ranged would just be a choice people would default to because it could be seen to provide and advantage numerically by itself even if the kits are entirely similar. I also kind of bring this up, because recently we've had a lot of specs have various weapon styles reincorporated and supported. Do you think it would be possible to have both Melee AND Ranged Survival as options for Survival like how we see DW and 2H as options for other specs or is the balancing and weapon-swapping too much of a barrier?

[Perkunas]

Do you think there would be a way for them to have added a Melee spec for Survival as say a 4th spec without increasing the work they would have to do to balance all specs? I ask this because, it seems to me if they had made a copy of Survival as Melee, that people would have felt forced to play ranged due to the benefits and coverage that range can give in encounters and that unless filling melee is something a dungeon or raid group needs to do while at the same time there being not enough melee to cover that demand, it seems otherwise being ranged would just be a choice people would default to because it could be seen to provide and advantage numerically by itself even if the kits are entirely similar. I also kind of bring this up, because recently we've had a lot of specs have various weapon styles reincorporated and supported. Do you think it would be possible to have both Melee AND Ranged Survival as options for Survival like how we see DW and 2H as options for other specs or is the balancing and weapon-swapping too much of a barrier?

A proper 4th spec is a better option honestly as apparently they refuse to do major talents that do that sort of thing anymore. They killed Glad stance and Fistweavers for instance.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.wowhead.com/news=317783/...ueshot-and-sto

Ty kindly!

[Huntsmang]

BS! 2.5% representation in PVP that is! a mere side game!

In PVE (the main game) the representation is 0.5% Sad isn't it? You wanna prioritize an extremely small percent over a significant one?

worldofwargraphs com /pve-stats/classes

[SirCowdog]

. Why change a spec if no one actually plays it.

Because in legion some out of touch moron at Blizzard actually thought melee hunter was a real thing and not a joke meme, and pushed it with the whole dumpster fire of "Class Fantasy".

And now we're stuck with it because there's artifact quests and resources dumped into it that Blizzard won't ever waste the dev time to retrofit in order to fix it.

The entire thing is a facedesk WTF error in the history of the class.

[Dancaris]

BS! 2.5% representation in PVP that is! a mere side game!

In PVE (the main game) the representation is 0.5% Sad isn't it? You wanna prioritize an extremely small percent over a significant one?

worldofwargraphs com /pve-stats/classes

and again, some stupid arguement. 2.5% SV, but BM is 1.1% and 0.2% for MM, so twice as many than ranged hunters. And yes, if you dont care about pvp - its your problem, but someone can care. And again you ignore ranged/melee problem.

- - - Updated - - -

in pvp both mm and bm are garbage, so naturally most pvp hunters would be survival, and survival just happens to be decent at pvp, but it is only decent at pvp and not much else.

And BM just happens to be decent at pve with corruption scaling and raid mechanics. And doing more dps than SV, so choise is oblivious.

And representation = how many people are playing. Not sure what you're getting at here?

And again ignore ranged/melee problem and fact, that RLs prefer ranged over melee. And yes
If there will be melee flavored raid(heh, i dont remember any since pandaria, maybe Nighthold), you will see a good amount of SV hunters in raids.
But with current tuning and raid fantasy - yes, you will see a maximum ranged and minimum melee, just for utility or +5% magic damage.

And if you say that - can we delete arcane mage or sub rogue? Its even less than SV.