I'm maining a class.. not a spec.

[Kaver]

I love WoW. It's an awesome game overall ( disclaimer for the people who will say "Just stop playing the game if you don't like it" ).

However, one of the biggest issue I have with WoW since Legion is how tedious it have become to play multiple specs. I'm not even talking about alts here. It seems like Blizzard are incentivizing maining only one spec of your class.

Since Legion we have had the following systems which make it a lot harder to play multiple specs of one class:

- Legendaries
- Azerite armor
- Corruption

Unfortunately what we see now is that covenants will go into the same category. The covenant you pick will likely only be good for one of your specs. Some classes will get lucky (like with corruption) and have one covenant be good for all its specs but not all classes will be so lucky. This sucks in my opinion. When I pick I class I don't do it because of only one spec. I want to play all aspects of that class without being "punished" in terms of performance.

[Kyphael]

This is not an issue for me as my characters are defined by specs, and I never really change specs on me. For example, my Dark Iron Dwarf is my fire mage. He's got a cool name related to fire, and when I want to play a fire mage, I play him. Likewise, my frost mage is say, a night elf, and his transmogged to look like a frost mage, so when I want to play a frost mage, I play him. Both are high level. I find no fun in switching between specs on the same character within the same expansion. I'm not even a major role-player, but I do enjoy playing with certain RP elements in mind like my character is named this, look like this, and is this spec, and that's what he is.

[Azerate]

I think they’ve decided that their target audience is people who want to play hours a day endlessly.

As such, they’ve added in a ton of grinding and barriers to playing the fun part of the game.

If you’re a player like me, who views all world content other than leveling as pointless nonsense, but who likes playing alts, switching mains, etc. - the game isn’t designed for me so I’ve left.

There's plenty of lobby-based games with jump-in/jump-out gameplay out there for you. A mmorpg shouldn't just be a raid simulator.

[korijenkins]

I think they’ve decided that their target audience is people who want to play hours a day endlessly.

As such, they’ve added in a ton of grinding and barriers to playing the fun part of the game.

If you’re a player like me, who views all world content other than leveling as pointless nonsense, but who likes playing alts, switching mains, etc. - the game isn’t designed for me so I’ve left.

See my point of view is that it's entirely the opposite.

They view their target audience as casual gamers, and make these systems to appease the hardcore players who want a more time-consuming game. It's why you can have LFR and Corruption at the same time in the same game.

IMO remove LFR, remove Corruption and Azerite and Legiondaries and all of the other garbage. Just get RID of it all, and go back to simpler times where server communities were important and cross server interactions only happened between friends.

[Grimbold21]

I don't understand this. You think we played classes in the past? I'm pretty sure that despite the absence of borrowed power systems, we were locked into specific specs. Granted the reason for that in the past was class design. Then again, when Ret became a playing spec in Wotlk, I was a Retribution paladin, not a paladin.

I'm beginning to feel that our choices should be more permanent as opposed to the versatility we have today that lets us adapt to anything and anyone.

[Feanoro]

Sorry, classes as we knew them died in MoP in favor of specs becoming mini-classes.

[Codah]

This is not an issue for me as my characters are defined by specs, and I never really change specs on me. For example, my Dark Iron Dwarf is my fire mage. He's got a cool name related to fire, and when I want to play a fire mage, I play him. Likewise, my frost mage is say, a night elf, and his transmogged to look like a frost mage, so when I want to play a frost mage, I play him. Both are high level. I find no fun in switching between specs on the same character within the same expansion. I'm not even a major role-player, but I do enjoy playing with certain RP elements in mind like my character is named this, look like this, and is this spec, and that's what he is.

I agree. I don't understand wanting specs but not wanting them to feel distinct. If they're barely different, what's the point?

[Utrrabbit]

There are other games with wow’s raiding but none of the other shit?

- - - Updated - - -



I completely agree that the game would be better if a lot of stuff was outright removed. The only power progression needed is gear.

And on that note, gear should be harder to get than it is. Stuff like warfronts where you run around like you head is cut off then walk out with a 460 is incredibly dumb.

And ALL those other games do not even come close to WoW in terms of gameplay..all of them are bad.

[Kaver]

There's plenty of lobby-based games with jump-in/jump-out gameplay out there for you. A mmorpg shouldn't just be a raid simulator.

I completely agree with this in general. There should always be a lot of investment in your character. But if you look at the specific systems I mentioned above, I would argue that it's another issue. For example, if I play a Rogue I don't think I should have to put in 3 times the work to play all the Rogue specs compared to someone who only plays one spec. You shouldn't be able to change freely between classes but I think you should be able to change relatively freely between specs. Especially when Blizzard balances the game in a way where some specs are horrible at certain aspects of the game while other specs can do everything. I don't think it's fair.

- - - Updated - - -

This is not an issue for me as my characters are defined by specs, and I never really change specs on me. For example, my Dark Iron Dwarf is my fire mage. He's got a cool name related to fire, and when I want to play a fire mage, I play him. Likewise, my frost mage is say, a night elf, and his transmogged to look like a frost mage, so when I want to play a frost mage, I play him. Both are high level. I find no fun in switching between specs on the same character within the same expansion. I'm not even a major role-player, but I do enjoy playing with certain RP elements in mind like my character is named this, look like this, and is this spec, and that's what he is.

And this is completely fair. But you also seem to play the game in a very distinctive way right. I play the game at a pretty high level which mean my main character is mythic geared, but I still work a full-time job, so I don't have the time to gear out 3 different Rogues to have one for each spec sadly.

[Monster Hunter]

I love WoW. It's an awesome game overall ( disclaimer for the people who will say "Just stop playing the game if you don't like it" ).

However, one of the biggest issue I have with WoW since Legion is how tedious it have become to play multiple specs. I'm not even talking about alts here. It seems like Blizzard are incentivizing maining only one spec of your class.

Since Legion we have had the following systems which make it a lot harder to play multiple specs of one class:

- Legendaries
- Azerite armor
- Corruption

Unfortunately what we see now is that covenants will go into the same category. The covenant you pick will likely only be good for one of your specs. Some classes will get lucky (like with corruption) and have one covenant be good for all its specs but not all classes will be so lucky. This sucks in my opinion. When I pick I class I don't do it because of only one spec. I want to play all aspects of that class without being "punished" in terms of performance.

I don't disagree. It does feel that way, and it's not nice. When I play a class yea I main a spec But I dk want to change it up now and then to keep things fresh, and those system did place barriers between swapping spec for the odd farm raid.

[Kaver]

I don't disagree. It does feel that way, and it's not nice. When I play a class yea I main a spec But I dk want to change it up now and then to keep things fresh, and those system did place barriers between swapping spec for the odd farm raid.

For me it also depends on how the specs are design for that expansion. In BFA I mained a Rogue so I almost had to play 2 specs no matter what. Assa for raiding and Outlaw for M+. But on my "main alt" which is a hunter I could just play BM for everything since that spec was good for all content.

[Amariw]

I love WoW. It's an awesome game overall ( disclaimer for the people who will say "Just stop playing the game if you don't like it" ).

However, one of the biggest issue I have with WoW since Legion is how tedious it have become to play multiple specs. I'm not even talking about alts here. It seems like Blizzard are incentivizing maining only one spec of your class.

Since Legion we have had the following systems which make it a lot harder to play multiple specs of one class:

- Legendaries
- Azerite armor
- Corruption

Unfortunately what we see now is that covenants will go into the same category. The covenant you pick will likely only be good for one of your specs. Some classes will get lucky (like with corruption) and have one covenant be good for all its specs but not all classes will be so lucky. This sucks in my opinion. When I pick I class I don't do it because of only one spec. I want to play all aspects of that class without being "punished" in terms of performance.

Agreed. Specc switching should be much easier. Its fine if your main specc is stronger, but the difference should be smaller, and require far less grinds. Catchups for speccs should be strong.

[Shahad]

There's plenty of lobby-based games with jump-in/jump-out gameplay out there for you. A mmorpg shouldn't just be a raid simulator.

Says who? Why is the 9-12+ hours per week that is commonly put towards mythic raiding not enough for Blizzard to just... leave me alone? There's really no reason to make the lives of mythic raiders intentionally worse, it doesn't benefit anyone.

[Kyphael]

I agree. I don't understand wanting specs but not wanting them to feel distinct. If they're barely different, what's the point?

Some people are more creatively-inclined, others just play competitively, I guess. If a specific spec is doing the best DPS, they want to switch to it without it being too much of a shock on their playing experience (losing "baseline abilities like slows, etc.) When I raided semi-seriously, I did change specs according to what did best too. Back then there was no transmog or other fun toys we have nowadays, early Wrath. I've changed as a player though. I went from casual raider to ultra casual player, logging in a few hours a week instead of a few hours a day. Transmogging, Timewalking, speed leveling, and having a small roster of characters with head canon stories for all is what entertains me, and Legion's class design got me here, it spoiled me, and defined how I view classes, and find them fun now. I'd rather have 36 "mini classes" than 12 "complete classes."

[TheRevenantHero]

See my point of view is that it's entirely the opposite.

They view their target audience as casual gamers, and make these systems to appease the hardcore players who want a more time-consuming game. It's why you can have LFR and Corruption at the same time in the same game.

IMO remove LFR, remove Corruption and Azerite and Legiondaries and all of the other garbage. Just get RID of it all, and go back to simpler times where server communities were important and cross server interactions only happened between friends.

If you remove LFR, you will literally see the subscription numbers plummet and burn. LFR is incredibly popular and it doesn't damage any other part of the game. The only people who don't like LFR are elitists who think people don't deserve to experience the raids unless they devote massive amounts of time to the game.

[Kaver]

I agree. I don't understand wanting specs but not wanting them to feel distinct. If they're barely different, what's the point?

I'm fine with them feeling distinct. I just would like to be able to change between specs without the hassle we've had in Legion and BFA. In Shadowlands it looks like your choice of covenant might cripple you in being able to play different specs. But what annoys me also is that this is very random. For some classes one covenant might be good for all specs while other classes have covenants which are good for one spec and horrible for another. I don't think it's fair that different classes have such different conditions of gameplay purely based on luck.

[Sansnom]

I love WoW. It's an awesome game overall ( disclaimer for the people who will say "Just stop playing the game if you don't like it" ).

However, one of the biggest issue I have with WoW since Legion is how tedious it have become to play multiple specs. I'm not even talking about alts here. It seems like Blizzard are incentivizing maining only one spec of your class.

Since Legion we have had the following systems which make it a lot harder to play multiple specs of one class:

- Legendaries
- Azerite armor
- Corruption

Some people would disagree, since they want to make "choice matters". Blizzard also seems to want to do this. I personally am neutral to this.

I also to like to know how it is harder to play multiple specs of one class? I am now aware of any penalty. If you mean, you need to put the same effort into the gearing the alternate specs as you did in the main specs, that is not a penalty.

It is no different to a player A was a tank, then wants to also play as a healer, then if the class does not have a heal spec, that player will need to gear up an alternate toon with a heal spec.

I can see both side of argument of this issue and really I do not have a solution that would satisfy both. I do play classes that have alternate specs and yes, I was disappointed to the artifact systems in Legion, having to grind the same number of points for each specs I like to play. But I can see why Blizzard would want to do this.

[Acidbaron]

I think they’ve decided that their target audience is people who want to play hours a day endlessly.

As such, they’ve added in a ton of grinding and barriers to playing the fun part of the game.

If you’re a player like me, who views all world content other than leveling as pointless nonsense, but who likes playing alts, switching mains, etc. - the game isn’t designed for me so I’ve left.

This is why Shadowlands, even if it’s decent (it’s not going to be good, let’s just be realistic), won’t spur a revival in the playerbase. The people who play casual hours got utterly burned out in Legion and left BFA in disgust.

I also get that feeling, i returned briefly in the latest patch but the systems upon systems have just made me not want to bother. It's like the idea in itself what they want is good but the execution feels lacking or aimed at the notion that your vast majority of spare time goes to just WoW and only WoW.

What is great if you are in your teens and early twenties but for folks older not so much.

[Mozu]

There's plenty of lobby-based games with jump-in/jump-out gameplay out there for you. A mmorpg shouldn't just be a raid simulator.

Agreed here. It's Blizzard's constant failing balancing act between casual systems and hardcore systems integrating with each other that makes the game feel bad for both groups.

[Kaver]

Some people would disagree, since they want to make "choice matters". Blizzard also seems to want to do this. I personally am neutral to this.

I also to like to know how it is harder to play multiple specs of one class? I am now aware of any penalty. If you mean, you need to put the same effort into the gearing the alternate specs as you did in the main specs, that is not a penalty.

It is no different to a player A was a tank, then wants to also play as a healer, then if the class does not have a heal spec, that player will need to gear up an alternate toon with a heal spec.

I can see both side of argument of this issue and really I do not have a solution that would satisfy both. I do play classes that have alternate specs and yes, I was disappointed to the artifact systems in Legion, having to grind the same number of points for each specs I like to play. But I can see why Blizzard would want to do this.

I guess it's about preference. I think there is a difference between switching classes and switching specs. If you want a class that can both heal and tank then you can choose a paladin, monk or druid. Too me there is enough "meaningful choice" in picking a class. I think specs are something we should be able to switch between with very little hassle. In Legion we had to farm legendaries for all the specs which was A LOT of work. In BFA we had to farm multiple pieces of the same azerite gear (or live with high reforge cost and lose all your gold) and also farm multiple sets of corruption gear (unless you were lucky that you played a class where all specs used the same corruption effects). To me it's just too much hassle for only one character.