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  1. #121
    Uther the Lightbringer: Remember, Arthas, we are paladins. Vengeance cannot be a part of what we must do. If we allow our passions to turn to bloodlust, then we will become as vile as the orcs.
    A few maps later.
    Arthas: Damn the men! Nothing shall prevent me from having my revenge, old friend. Not even you.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathreim View Post
    No the plague hadn't even started turning people they didn't even realized something was wrong. What you see in the Culling of Stratholme dungeon is not what happens in the lore.

    The wheat just arrived and the first batches of bread were being eaten no one had even turned yet before Arthas started killing people. Saying everyone had eaten the wheat and were doomed is nonsense. Arthas murdered hundreds of people he could have saved if he tried.
    That's not true if I recall correctly the book explicitly that it was easy for him and his men at first because they were just killing the turned undead.

    Then it got really hard because they were killing people who were not even trying to defend themselves because they saw the soldiers as there to protect them. Finally it got a bit easier again when the townspeople took up arms to try and defend themselves.

    Pg 104. "The ones that had risen were easy. They were the enemy; human no longer, but vile caricatures of what they had once been in life, and smashing their skulls or slicing their heads off was no more of a hardship than putting down a rabid beast. The others—"
    Last edited by Wyattbw09; 2020-08-31 at 05:25 PM.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It is even in one way his redemption if we have to destroy his soul and it moves on to become something new.
    That's kinda stretching the definition of "redemption". By that standard, both Guldan, Garrosh and Kaelthas redeemed themselves (last one even did it two times).
    I'd say that some conclusion is definitely in order.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The story has simply painted itself into a corner whether it wants to or not, after showing that Arthas was thrown unjustly into the Maw a redemption arc is the only option the writers have.
    I've just outlined two scenarios where Arthas does not necessarily has to have redemption arc. They are not very likely (or, rather, very not likely), but still possible.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Love all the people stating Stratholme was the right decision.
    He never bothered trying to quarantine people. He never tried helping those who were sick, or better yet, helping those who appeared completely fine.
    What did he do? He took his troops and marched in and slaughtered innocent people. The right thing to do would have been to section off the town, have people remain in their homes, and then end those who turned.
    Someone in this thread made a comment about how the majority would have been lost, but with other means there still could have been some who could have been saved.
    Someone else also mentioned Uther and Jaina being with him, and they even stated it was wrong and noticed how he wouldn’t listen to reason.
    His actions are comparable to Sylvanas burning of Teldrassil. They both killed innocent men, women, and children, and burned their home. At least Sylvanas’ plan served a purpose, to feed her power while attempting to demoralize the enemy during a war. Arthas was “well, some people got zombified off this grain, better kill everyone.” People say he’s not able to be redeemed because he didn’t do what he did for the greater good, he did it because he was a proud, vengeful prick that didn’t try to save anyone while killing and being the cause of a multitude of innocent people's deaths.
    This person has it right. Hope no one else in this thread ever becomes a leader in any capacity. The correct answer is to quarantine people. See who is sick, isolate.

    Arthas just killed EVERYONE. There were undoubtedly those who weren't infected. He killed them for no reason.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    This person has it right. Hope no one else in this thread ever becomes a leader in any capacity. The correct answer is to quarantine people. See who is sick, isolate.
    And then the whole city and all surrounding towns turns undead and marches on you under Mal'ganis' command.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by LorDC View Post
    And then the whole city and all surrounding towns turns undead and marches on you under Mal'ganis' command.
    quarantine means to prevent spreading the disease, how would it reach other surrounding towns if you quarantined it?

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    quarantine means to prevent spreading the disease, how would it reach other surrounding towns if you quarantined it?
    Quarantine is not something you declare, it is something you have to do. It takes A LOT of man power to enforce a quarantine. Once people start turning and the survivors start trying to flee in all directions or in mass numbers you can't control it and then it gets out. Not sure they had the manpower to enforce a city wide quarantine and battle the undead as the turned.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    quarantine means to prevent spreading the disease, how would it reach other surrounding towns if you quarantined it?
    outside towns already had infected wheat.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by LorDC View Post
    And then the whole city and all surrounding towns turns undead and marches on you under Mal'ganis' command.
    No you quarantine the city, figure out how long it takes for people to turn... separate out the infected from the uninfected.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathreim View Post
    No the plague hadn't even started turning people they didn't even realized something was wrong. What you see in the Culling of Stratholme dungeon is not what happens in the lore.
    Out of Curiosity, where do you base the "Real" lore from?

    I mean, from my understanding -> New Lore trumps old Lore.
    So I would say if your Source is Older than LichKing, it is outdated and rewritten, or retconned like everyone likes to say.

    Not that it overall really matters tbh, I´m just curious.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    outside towns already had infected wheat.
    So just go around culling every city then? Throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    outside towns already had infected wheat.
    Sure, but then killing everyone inside stratholme wouldn't prevent any infected wheat outside of it, so in that regard the culling wouldn't solve the spread of the disease.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyattbw09 View Post
    Quarantine is not something you declare, it is something you have to do. It takes A LOT of man power to enforce a quarantine. Once people start turning and the survivors start trying to flee in all directions or in mass numbers you can't control it and then it gets out. Not sure they had the manpower to enforce a city wide quarantine and battle the undead as the turned.
    Killing an entire town require as much if not more manpower than quarantine it...
    And you mentioned people would flee when they turned, yeah, they would...and they did turn so people would already be escaping... if Arthas managed to catch everyone who tried to flee to kill them there is no reason he couldn't catch and quarantine them. Then we have the fact that plenty would also start escaping when they see they are getting unjustly slaughtered.

    Especially since a quarantine would gain both Uthers and Jainas and their soldiers help. They would have more manpower for something he managed to do without it. Since he was so hellbent on killing things he could use his soldiers and kill anyone who had turned and let Uther and Jaina take care of those who haven't yet.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2020-08-31 at 05:54 PM.

  13. #133
    I love how people will rage about how Sylvanas committed genocide (Which by definition she didn't but whatever.) and say it was a HORDE ACTION yet when Arthas commits genocide against both Stratholme and Quel'thalas, people say he was acting alone and didn't represent the Alliance. It's ridiculous.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Not everyone in Stratholme was plagued. There is also a chance they could have studied it to look for a cure. He killed innocents without knowing if they were infected.
    There’s also the choice of quarantining people. Trying to separate the healthy. Searching for a cure.
    You also stated it yourself, they knew nothing about the plague. Instead of trying to contain it, help those they could, possibly look for a cure, or literally do anything else, Arthas immediately jumps to mass slaughter.
    Once someone is rotten, and in a pile of boiled flesh. There is no "cure" also there as no way to know who was and was not infected. And no, they are not going to let a literal city of torture and death exist, building an army of undead big enough to wipe the continent, whole they do some research. Yes, qaunrtine, we all know how well that works... Especially when you are drastically outnumbered and the things to be qaurnteened want to consume flesh.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I love how people will rage about how Sylvanas committed genocide (Which by definition she didn't but whatever.) and say it was a HORDE ACTION yet when Arthas commits genocide against both Stratholme and Quel'thalas, people say he was acting alone and didn't represent the Alliance. It's ridiculous.
    It's worse than that, they say it was a good thing to do...even though he gave exactly 0.5s of thought of what could've been done and dismissed his advisors instantly...

    I don't even understand... the entire Arthas arc is about him literally going towards anger and killing as the first response for everything. Which is what makes him a bad person and evil... the fact that he and others try to justify his actions as good things doesn't change the fact he wants violence to be the answer... There is a reason why frostmourne sought out Arthas and not Magni for example. Arthas would agree with the whispers because he likes what he hear and one wouldn't because they are a good person.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2020-08-31 at 06:01 PM.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    This person has it right. Hope no one else in this thread ever becomes a leader in any capacity. The correct answer is to quarantine people. See who is sick, isolate.

    Arthas just killed EVERYONE. There were undoubtedly those who weren't infected. He killed them for no reason.
    "See who is sick, isolate" I think you fail to realize the people who are sick, are turning within minutes. And are actively trying to infect others. The zombies are not going "oh I'm a zombie, better go self isolate" they are busy consuming men woman and child.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I love how people will rage about how Sylvanas committed genocide (Which by definition she didn't but whatever.) and say it was a HORDE ACTION yet when Arthas commits genocide against both Stratholme and Quel'thalas, people say he was acting alone and didn't represent the Alliance. It's ridiculous.
    Stratholme was a mercy killing.

    Sylvanas did the genocide with the help of the horde
    Arthas did the genocide of quelthalas with undead. Not alliance

    Trying to compare arthas with an army of undead "alliance genocide"
    To sylvanas literally burning the world tree with the hordes help? Really?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    quarantine means to prevent spreading the disease, how would it reach other surrounding towns if you quarantined it?
    Hey guess what... Prevent the spread of disease. When us real life people get sick we don't go insane and start actively hunting down people to infect.

    Zombies don't go "oh I got a cold, better stay home"

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    It's worse than that, they say it was a good thing to do...even though he gave exactly 0.5s of thought of what could've been done and dismissed his advisors instantly...
    He literally almost sent the quel'dorei into extinction and made the Sunwell corrupted for decades. And Straholme could have very easily been quarantined but he had a murder boner for Mal'ganis so the city and all its citizens had to burn. I'm so sick of people saying there are no Alliance villains but are quick to call the likes of Garrosh and Sylvanas representing the entire Horde.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    No you quarantine the city, figure out how long it takes for people to turn... separate out the infected from the uninfected.
    "Figure out how long it takes people to turn"

    Minutes to days, they already saw people turn minutes after eating the wheat, while some took days.

    "Qaunrtine the city, and then save the not infected" so who? Cause by that point they are literally all fucking dead.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    "See who is sick, isolate" I think you fail to realize the people who are sick, are turning within minutes. And are actively trying to infect others. The zombies are not going "oh I'm a zombie, better go self isolate" they are busy consuming men woman and child.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Stratholme was a mercy killing.

    Sylvanas did the genocide with the help of the horde
    Arthas did the genocide of quelthalas with undead. Not alliance

    Trying to compare arthas with an army of undead "alliance genocide"
    To sylvanas literally burning the world tree with the hordes help? Really?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Hey guess what... Prevent the spread of disease. When us real life people get sick we don't go insane and start actively hunting down people to infect.

    Zombies don't go "oh I got a cold, better stay home"
    Genocide requires deliberately eradicating an entire culture, gender, creed, or ethnic group. Her goal wasn't to eradicate the entire Kaldorei population so technically it doesn't meet the definition of genocide. And Stratholme was NOT a mercy killing. It's absolutely bananas that you are willing to say it was. But thank you for proving my point that Alliance fans are utterly unwilling to admit Alliance lore characters have committed heinous acts.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    So just go around culling every city then? Throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.
    Yes. Kill all infected, and all who are highly likely to be infected. That's literally every fucking zombie thing ever. You are the guy in every zombie movie who goes "hey guys no it's just a bite it's fine" that then leads to EVERYONE dying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Genocide requires deliberately eradicating an entire culture, gender, creed, or ethnic group. Her goal wasn't to eradicate the entire Kaldorei population so technically it doesn't meet the definition of genocide. And Stratholme was NOT a mercy killing. It's absolutely bananas that you are willing to say it was. But thank you for proving my point that Alliance fans are utterly unwilling to admit Alliance lore characters have committed heinous acts.
    Lol who said they haven't? But like who would even give a single smidge of credence to your opinion, when you openly compare arthas and his undead hordes attacking quelthalas "alliance genocide" to sylvanas with the actual horde, burning teldrassil and it's civilians.

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