Prepare to have all your questions unanswered and ignored. None of you remember WoD, Legion and BFA hey?
Based on the quests in Revendreth, it appears as if the Venthyr are actually made from penitent souls from other worlds/universes/realities, and that becoming one of the Venthyr is a possible outcome from a soul's time in Revendreth. There *are* souls also sent on to a second judgment and another afterlife realm if they successfully reform, and also souls sent to the Maw if they completely fail to reform. How often previously condemned souls become Venthyr can't really be said yet. But all the major Venthyr we encounter in Revendreth used to have other identities as formerly living beings from elsewhere. The Accuser was an assassin who "accidentally" killed her own daughter, another was apparently a former despot, and another was an unethical scientist whose experimentation led to genocide.
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That's basically still true, yes. I assume that becoming Venthyr counts as a successful reformation.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
That makes sense. Now, my question is, for those who choose to stay in Shadowlands, they then take the form of the race representative of the Covenant they'll be working with? Like I know Uther becomes blue like Kyrian, but it sounds like those who begin to do the work of say, Revendreth, they then physically turn into Venthyr?
Yes they do, if I am recalling correctly one of the souls you meet in Bastion is a Kyrian but we are told they were a Tauren in life.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
I agree that the Archon dropped the ball pretty heavily, and I kind of wonder why Devos didn't Uther before the tribunal or what have you and just let Kyrestia and everyone else see what she saw in Uther's memories. But I think the Kyrians are just so hidebound and dogmatic after eons of doing things a certain way they were just completely unable to see things as they truly were. The Jailer's banishment had become an article of faith, more or less; and it's difficult to reason with fixed zealotry.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Honestly it's just all completely arbitrary at this point. It's more of Blizzard's trademark "Morally Gray" that they touted totally took place last expansion even though the cracks are starting to pop up everywhere. Heck we can't even take what Devos says about the Maw being the place where all the evil has been locked up and that's where threats to the Shadowlands go when it's just as easily the place everyone else just agreed to team up and seal off because they decided that is it what they would do on that Sunday. Especially when you consider how shady and self serving each of the covenants are which doesn't exactly make them look trustworthy and raises the principle question of why on Azeroth would any of us side with them and it just boils down to because the game said so.
I mean just going by the fact that people assume the Arbiter judges based on Good and Evil and not their own whims and everybody just follows along as they get their anima and soldiers in a steady supply. Basically the Shadowlands system is a joke but the players have to follow it because the game says so.
No, this has never been a thing. Players assumed it was a thing because Sylvanas went to the good place when Arthas killed her and the bad place when she killed herself, and concluded that literally the only possible explanation is that all undead go to the bad place because it couldn't possibly be that Sylvanas was a bad person.
@Nymrohd @NED funded
It is. It's a decent bit of world building, but still prone to abuse. I'm still kind of skeptical of how this whole things gels with the val'kyr. Setting aside pure retcons, largely in how easily the flow of the afterlife is hijacked. Uther's soul is uniquely fucked because of Frostmourne, but what about those who're brought back through common necromancy, their souls still trapped in their bodies?
Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.
Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.
Every Sylvanas since Vanilla deserves the Maw. She may not have succeeded, but her plan since day one of WOW was to develop a plague that would wipe out all living beings on Azeroth and turn them into Forsaken. That was why the Royal Apothecary existed that was their task.
Oh, I know there's zero point in trying to apply it to prior content. Uther is contradictory in a million different levels. In TBC because he was in Frostmourne, in Wrath because he wasn't and was a free floating ghost in the chamber, in Legion because he was in Bastion and in Shadowlands for all of the above. I mean what's the new fangled explanation for it.
Also, mentally prepare yourself when they say that Sylvanas's bad half was there because Danuser recently played Starcraft II and thought that 'you may have killed millions of people, but at the very least you made me happy' is good enough for redemption stories.
Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.
Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.
Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.
Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.
I think it's clear that it doesn't mean that a soul did nothing wrong, but I don't agree about redeemable. Redeemable is exactly what Revendreth means. It doesn't mean good, but it means that some form of redemption is possible for the character if they repent of their crimes in life.
I didn't really feel that the narrative ever made Uther's grievance with Arthas seem irrational or petty - I actually thought it cast the Kyrians in a bad light instead, and I definitely feel that Uther depositing Arthas in the Maw is definitively closer to justice than it is vengeance (though I can't deny it contains a bit from both column A and B). Given the general arc of the Bastion zone and Kyrian Covenant, I think the above takeaway is probably closer to the intended one.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead