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  1. #21
    High Overlord Bearded Sith's Avatar
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    Well, the good news is that if you're a Rogue, you don't really have a choice outside of Necrolords. The other abilities not only suck, but break gameplay (all of this is IMO by playing through all the zones on beta). It's a damn shame, too. I REALLY wanted to be a VampGlam Void Elf.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Out of interest, do we already have a BiS list for the Classes regarding Covenants? I'm not asking because I want the "highest parsing" Covenant for my class, just curious. I already made up my mind on which Covenant goes with my characters (I just looked at the skills and deemed them the most likeable etc., never looked up numbers for them), but I am still curious what the "go to" consensus will be.

    My decision, purely based on personal thoughts:

    Main: Restoration Druid - Necrolords - Adaptive Swarm just fits the playstyle perfectly and while not having seen any numbers this skill looks incredibly powerful and fitting for the class

    Alt 1: Restoration Shaman - Necrolords
    - Primordial Wave sounds like a nice skill with a lot of interactions with other talents (Echo of Elements, Torrent etc.); to be fair, I think all of the Shaman skills are pretty lackluster, but this is imho the best next to Vesper Totem

    Alt 2: Mistweaver Monk - Necrolords? - I don't know, I think all four Covenant skills are really bad, this seems somehow acceptable

    Alt 3: Shadow Priest - Venthyr? - No idea, I dislike all of the Covenant skills and think they're one of the worst ones available next to Monk

    Alt 4: Holy Paladin - Kyrian - Divine Toll seems to be amazing, so no real debate here for me
    How are this "BiS" though? Not only do they ignore numbers but I get the feeling you didn't actually try them out either.
    If this is a list of what ones you think sound cool than thats fine but it's not a list of whats best.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    Choose your talent accept your fate. Pick randomly and learn to love the bench.
    WoW doesn’t have the luxury to separate players so hard. We would end up having not enough players for any roster. Plus it’s a stupid thing to give players even more say on how other players play.

    To me it’s always a problem if I can have a say on others and others have a say on me because as you can imagine by how most people reply to other posters even, granting any sort of power over others to a player never has a good result.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    WoW doesn’t have the luxury to separate players so hard. We would end up having not enough players for any roster. Plus it’s a stupid thing to give players even more say on how other players play.

    To me it’s always a problem if I can have a say on others and others have a say on me because as you can imagine by how most people reply to other posters even, granting any sort of power over others to a player never has a good result.
    The OP you quoted has words ''get benched'' or ''love the bench'' in his every second post. He obviously gets thrill from ''threatening'' people on MMO champ that they will get benched if they pick wrong.

    You are correct. Raid leaders won't have the luxury to seperate people that hard - mythic rosters are already a pain to keep. Our raid leader (we are a CE guild, but not in the upper echeleon) already said - pick what you prefer - happier raiders=better progression.

  5. #25
    The difference between covenants will no way be as insignificant as the difference between racials. Maybe i'd give them the benefit of the doubt if Soulbinds were class specific aswell, so they could balance each class' soulbinds compared to their abilities, but they're not and I somehow doubt something like Abom Limb which has utility attached to it will ever come close to DD in throughput, even though said utility is only useful in a small handful of scenarios.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamais View Post
    The OP you quoted has words ''get benched'' or ''love the bench'' in his every second post. He obviously gets thrill from ''threatening'' people on MMO champ that they will get benched if they pick wrong.

    You are correct. Raid leaders won't have the luxury to seperate people that hard - mythic rosters are already a pain to keep. Our raid leader (we are a CE guild, but not in the upper echeleon) already said - pick what you prefer - happier raiders=better progression.
    Mythic players will simply adapt to the system the same way glads will as others become unable to compete.Now you will be able to raid mythic regardless of choice but clear at a rate to get CE? Unlikely.

    It isn't like some shadowy cabal of highend players will come together to stop you either. Assuming near equal skill the players with the right choices will always out perform those with the wrong choices. It is as simple as that. You are not going to change a mentality that has lasted fifteen years by making choices harder to undo.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    How are this "BiS" though? Not only do they ignore numbers but I get the feeling you didn't actually try them out either.
    If this is a list of what ones you think sound cool than thats fine but it's not a list of whats best.
    Uhm, it's not? And it was never supposed to be and I even explicitly said the following things:

    My decision, purely based on personal thoughts + I just looked at the skills and deemed them the most likeable etc., never looked up numbers for them

    Don't know why people have such a hard time with reading comprehesion. I want to know if there's already a BiS list based on the newest beta iterations of the Covenant skills. I am not offering a BiS list, just my personal preference.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2020-09-01 at 01:43 PM.
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  8. #28
    Legendary! Frolk's Avatar
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    Only looking at playing 1 char to begin with, DK, blood/unholy, Night Fae all day long, Deaths Due so good and the mobility skill is crazy good for dk, gonna mainly do M+
    Get decent haste/mastery procs and a cheat death from night fae as well, i am curious how good it actually is.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Uhm, it's not? And it was never supposed to be and I even explicitly said the following things:

    My decision, purely based on personal thoughts + I just looked at the skills and deemed them the most likeable etc., never looked up numbers for them

    Don't know why people have such a hard time with reading comprehesion. I want to know if there's already a BiS list based on the newest beta iterations of the Covenant skills. I am not offering a BiS list, just my personal preference.
    You litterally called it "BiS" though.

  10. #30
    Scarab Lord City Pop's Avatar
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    Numerous classes do have clear BiS covenants, but I would wait at least until pre-patch is live before assuming they won't be tuned more.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    You litterally called it "BiS" though.
    I never called my personal preference list BiS.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by City Pop View Post
    Numerous classes do have clear BiS covenants, but I would wait at least until pre-patch is live before assuming they won't be tuned more.
    They dont. Its all speculation and nothing but bunch of opnions of players what only thing they do is comparing covenant skills. Completly ignoring conduits/legos and most importantly raid and dungeon boss mechanics. All this creates dynamic where what people think is super bad covenant for their class will actualy end up pretty good choice.

  13. #33
    Scarab Lord City Pop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    They dont. Its all speculation and nothing but bunch of opnions of players what only thing they do is comparing covenant skills. Completly ignoring conduits/legos and most importantly raid and dungeon boss mechanics. All this creates dynamic where what people think is super bad covenant for their class will actualy end up pretty good choice.
    Legos are not tied to covenants, and all bosses and conduits/soulbinds have been tested. Like I said, it's not worth settling on a covenant right now because we are still in the tuning phase, but if the expansion were to launch today then some classes would have a clear bis for those who do high end content.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    They dont. Its all speculation and nothing but bunch of opnions of players what only thing they do is comparing covenant skills. Completly ignoring conduits/legos and most importantly raid and dungeon boss mechanics. All this creates dynamic where what people think is super bad covenant for their class will actualy end up pretty good choice.
    This. So far it's only speculations and so many factors come in play that it's not a clear choice, and even if we do the math right now, a simple buff to "terrible" covenant can change it to BiS pretty quickly.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    If the disparity is 20% between covenants we re discussing about a broken system then. I surely hope this is not the case. Ofc the numbers I put down were just an example, I mean in my mind the acceptable difference between covenants is like the difference in facials. More than that can be game breaking.
    The difference will be muchmuch bigger than racials. Atm they are gamebreaking for sure - as in the sense if you want to be in a serious raid group you will be locked into one covenant, which will lock you out of serious m+ group. The difference is too big to be able to compete in both.

    Note: this is not the case for every class and spec. But the outcry will be enormous if they dont fix those classes suffering from this.

    In case people havent realized, players are super elitist even in low m+ keys. That's why Rio exists, and that's why you will spend an hour looking for group if your Rio score is low. Just wait and see Rio track covenants and people with the "wrong" covenant not being invited.

    And I understand the former perfectly well. Even if the difference is like 3%, it tells about the player if he prefers cosmetics over performance. People who want to perform tend to perform better.
    Last edited by facefist; 2020-09-01 at 04:58 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I never called my personal preference list BiS.
    The whole thread is named "BiS-Covenant-for-each-Class-Spec".
    Your thread.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by City Pop View Post
    Legos are not tied to covenants, and all bosses and conduits/soulbinds have been tested. Like I said, it's not worth settling on a covenant right now because we are still in the tuning phase, but if the expansion were to launch today then some classes would have a clear bis for those who do high end content.
    And as Blizzard intends, players who are choosing covenants based on personal aesthetic taste are going to have the best time here, because history tells us the "clear choice" is what gets nerfed once they see everyone picking it, and then remained nerfed for the rest of the expansion. I know the players who are going to get screwed over by that will consider that a game problem, but really it's a you problem, because they're not going to fix that.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    The whole thread is named "BiS-Covenant-for-each-Class-Spec".
    Your thread.
    Maybe read the actual post and not just the title? They literally say they are asking if there is a list of bis covenants for each spec and although they are not deciding their covenant on BiS they are just wondering. Then go on to say which one they are picking based solely on play style not numbers aka not calling it BiS.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan4893 View Post
    Maybe read the actual post and not just the title? They literally say they are asking if there is a list of bis covenants for each spec and although they are not deciding their covenant on BiS they are just wondering. Then go on to say which one they are picking based solely on play style not numbers aka not calling it BiS.
    Yeah and the ones picked were far from BiS.
    Now he knows.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Uhm, it's not? And it was never supposed to be and I even explicitly said the following things:

    My decision, purely based on personal thoughts + I just looked at the skills and deemed them the most likeable etc., never looked up numbers for them

    Don't know why people have such a hard time with reading comprehesion. I want to know if there's already a BiS list based on the newest beta iterations of the Covenant skills. I am not offering a BiS list, just my personal preference.
    then, if you want to talk B.I.S. (title of the thread), what was the point of posting your list "purely based on personal thoughts without looking at numbers"?? I mean, it's completely off topic in the op of your own thread.... don't be surprised if people are confused. they read the title, they see your list.... et voila.

    you want to know if there's already a BiS list? fine... now, what are we suppose to do with your damn list? it's 3/4 of your op .....
    Last edited by Beuargh; 2020-09-01 at 06:43 PM.

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