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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by glszino View Post
    And there is nothing wrong as a player when you know how much time you spend on your character to set yourself for success by choosing the covenant that works best for your character.

    The main problem that shows that the current design is dogshit is that there is not a covenant that is best for a class for several game areas. Instead we get, BiS covenant for one spec in PvP and another BiS covenant for the same spec in PvE if we are lucky and there is no differentiation between M+ and raid.
    Basically, Blizzard forces us to choose the part of the game we want to play at our full potential and accept the fact that this will negatively impact other parts of the game.

    The system is shit for people who plays multiple specs of their class in multiple game mode (Raid, M+, PvP)... and I am not even talking about the soulbinds that are not spec specific. Have fun if you like playing the 4 specs of your druid in PvP, M+, raids.
    I didn't say there was anything wrong with the playstyle I mentioned.

    Meanwhile you're now saying the system is "dogshit" because it doesn't have a BiS all the time while the person I responded to said the design was terrible because people are looking for BiS choices. So which way is it?

    Or maybe you can't design a game for all people all the time.

    Or maybe people need to put a lot less stock in a single active ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    We are scared of bad game design but not of other players choosing what we can or cannot do in a game. See you in the "where did everyone go" thread in a few months.
    Not sure I understand your point here. Are you saying that your original point is that you're just afraid of bad game design but you chose to communicate it as a given that it is bad game design?

    Also, don't we have a "where did everyone go" thread every damn expansion? Doom and gloom insinuations are so TBC, er, WotLK, no wait, Cata, er no, Mop, etc. etc.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    You should read more than just the title of the thread and not attribute statements to my person that I've never made. By that logic I must always cater to the thread title in my posts because people could get confused by anything deviating from that. /smh

    I asked if there's already an existing BiS list. And then I wanted to offer insight into my picks (which I never deemed BiS), just FYI reasons. I mean, some people got that concept and answered to this thread correctly. Again, if you read my posts, it was obvious what I tried to achieve. Maybe now we can move on from this nonsense discussion and get back on topic.
    Yes, you should cater to your own title if you want consistency. That sounds perfectly reasonable, given you're the one who wrote the title. One thread has one topic. Otherwise the title is just clickbait and people get annoyed by that.

    I read the title and then I chose to click on it. So I had expectations based on what the title was. Then you start talking about things unrelated to the title. Well, I clicked on this because of the title, otherwise I wouldn't be here, so what are you ranting on about? Chaos ensues. Nobody starts reading this thread without having made some expectations about it based on the title. And people that were baited by the title mostly won't care about any other topic you want to discuss on the side. That's why you should keep your discussion consistent with the title in an internet forum.

    I intentionally didn't discuss the real topic because I read your favorite list, realized it's not BiS and thought there was no point talking about BiS in that case. You basically admitted you don't care about BiS while simultaneously asking for BiS just for curiosity. I can't take that seriously. So I predicted that people would flame you for doing that, then I laughed when you started complaining that they did that. I thought it would be fun to lecture you, and you didn't disappoint. You made a mistake and you don't want to admit it was a mistake. Fun time.
    Last edited by Khallid; 2020-09-02 at 01:07 PM.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    I didn't say there was anything wrong with the playstyle I mentioned.

    Meanwhile you're now saying the system is "dogshit" because it doesn't have a BiS all the time while the person I responded to said the design was terrible because people are looking for BiS choices. So which way is it?

    Or maybe you can't design a game for all people all the time.

    Or maybe people need to put a lot less stock in a single active ability.



    Not sure I understand your point here. Are you saying that your original point is that you're just afraid of bad game design but you chose to communicate it as a given that it is bad game design?

    Also, don't we have a "where did everyone go" thread every damn expansion? Doom and gloom insinuations are so TBC, er, WotLK, no wait, Cata, er no, Mop, etc. etc.
    The issue is that in the harder difficulties and pvp wow is a competitive game. The more damage you do compared to others of your class and spec opens up more options to play the game. It can mean being in a better guild (performance wise) or getting a glad mount.

    Sure you can say just play the easier difficulties but I find heroic so utterly boring at this I rarely if ever expect to clear it later then then the first week maybe second. I also unfortunately enjoy pvping in my off time and I simply can't do both competitively.

    This system is disastrous and is mostly propped up by people who either don't do anything outside of automated grouping or believe that picking a talent point they are going to read off a guild regardless is some cosmic choice and by having it that way people wont judge them.

    This is wow. I promise you there will be a addon within a mount that people will use to filter out other people. I mean there is even a mode that highlights players from specific realms players want to blacklist.

  4. #64
    OT: I will choose probably Night Fae of Kyrian for my main and twinks. Simply because I don't like the art-style and theme of Necrolords (in general death and decay stuff). Do I maybe loose a few % in the worst case, yes. But do I raid on a level where it really matters (Top 100)? No, so there won't be a problem.

    I think everything besides the upper echelons of the cutting edge guilds can be compensated with more proper tactics and general individuel skill of the player. Does it make it easier for those guilds with let's say accumulated 10% more dmg/heal through covenants? yes. Mandatory? No. But I fully understand what the problem for the great mass is here.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    The issue is that in the harder difficulties and pvp wow is a competitive game. The more damage you do compared to others of your class and spec opens up more options to play the game. It can mean being in a better guild (performance wise) or getting a glad mount.

    Sure you can say just play the easier difficulties but I find heroic so utterly boring at this I rarely if ever expect to clear it later then then the first week maybe second. I also unfortunately enjoy pvping in my off time and I simply can't do both competitively.

    This system is disastrous and is mostly propped up by people who either don't do anything outside of automated grouping or believe that picking a talent point they are going to read off a guild regardless is some cosmic choice and by having it that way people wont judge them.

    This is wow. I promise you there will be a addon within a mount that people will use to filter out other people. I mean there is even a mode that highlights players from specific realms players want to blacklist.
    I think suggesting the highest content you're capable of doing without the perfectly optimized active covenant ability is heroic content is a tad hyperbole.

    A tad.

    Everyone likes to talk like they're elite tier, but the reality is quite different.

    But it really doesn't matter. If you want to make your covenant choice by which is the mechanically superior choice, you can do that. No one is stopping anyone from deciding their covenant based on numbers instead of aesthetics.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    I think suggesting the highest content you're capable of doing without the perfectly optimized active covenant ability is heroic content is a tad hyperbole.

    A tad.

    Everyone likes to talk like they're elite tier, but the reality is quite different.

    But it really doesn't matter. If you want to make your covenant choice by which is the mechanically superior choice, you can do that. No one is stopping anyone from deciding their covenant based on numbers instead of aesthetics.
    True a better example would likely be CE unless the rambling turns out to be true and their solution to covenants is making mythic less difficult then previous expansions. That or we are going to see people go alliance to stack the dwarf racial to clear bleeds while having their optimal covenant and that will at least be humorous to see.

  7. #67
    Kind of funny to see where the "bis" phrase has ballooned from the original use of actual "the one best piece of gear."

    Anyway I'd wager that we're still going to see significant cov ability changes in the next few weeks, maybe even later today!

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Thanks for that info Im really at a loss currently but overall I was under the impression that there wouldnt be "generation size" gaps between covenants and their abilities. All that being said, Im always looking for whats best performance spec but without limitation to the content (i pvp and M+ high). Would have hoped that they can at least engage pvp/M+ and M+/raiding with pvp =/= raiding as always.
    The gaps right now are in some cases literally bigger than the gap between best and worst classes is in bfa it's honestly shocking.

  9. #69
    Im just picking Night Fae for everything because I want to move 50% faster all the time, that's all there is to it.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    Mythic players will simply adapt to the system the same way glads will as others become unable to compete.Now you will be able to raid mythic regardless of choice but clear at a rate to get CE? Unlikely.

    It isn't like some shadowy cabal of highend players will come together to stop you either. Assuming near equal skill the players with the right choices will always out perform those with the wrong choices. It is as simple as that. You are not going to change a mentality that has lasted fifteen years by making choices harder to undo.
    LOLOLOLOL

    Are you suggesting by any chance that method/limit or other top 10 guilds wouldn't be able to clear mythic raid 20 times before even vast majority of guilds with "BiS" covenants are even get to last boss? That is hilarious.

    Lemmie tell you a secret, your gear is not even close to being important as much as amount of time you are willing to play and your skills. Tactics and execution are still way more important.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Im just picking Night Fae for everything because I want to move 50% faster all the time, that's all there is to it.
    To be fair for non-competitive play that shiny fox really does feel amazing.

  12. #72
    Why is a thread that asks for BiS covenants filled with people talking about how "there is no BiS"?
    Of course there is BiS. Always will be. This time it is just ALSO seperated by activity and unchangable.

    Right now as a druid i probably get the best value out of Nightfay. Not sure with the last nerf.
    Best? No idea. But if i take Venthyr i can never use the ability in PvP... which is kinda stupid

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    To be fair for non-competitive play that shiny fox really does feel amazing.
    It's also an incredibly useful ability even for competitive play (it's basically the old druid ability displacer beast, which was always the best talent for M+ and raiding because it allowed you to blink through mechanics). In terms of raiding it's probably the 2nd best after Kyrian, and in dungeons the venthyr teleport may be better but it's hard to tell.

    But even if it wasn't, just having the 50% increased movement speed permanently in rest areas is such a huge QoL improvement I can't imagine picking any other covenant.
    Last edited by ydraw; 2020-09-04 at 07:03 AM.

  14. #74
    It will be interesting to see how the " BIS" turns out compared to what people think is the more interesting choice.

    It will also be interesting to see how much it really matters in the end. I can see where it could just end up being a fun thing, but I also see a situation where it could turn into a nightmare even for the most casual of players.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    LOLOLOLOL

    Are you suggesting by any chance that method/limit or other top 10 guilds wouldn't be able to clear mythic raid 20 times before even vast majority of guilds with "BiS" covenants are even get to last boss? That is hilarious.

    Lemmie tell you a secret, your gear is not even close to being important as much as amount of time you are willing to play and your skills. Tactics and execution are still way more important.
    I mean you don't know how how method works... method is already near bis slot by the time they fight the boss and usually have more powerful raids before nerfs. Just like how they had better corruptions for znoth they had a corruption setup no one else really got to use.

    Showing you don't know how any of this works isn't that impressive of a feat. Hell that isn't even the point raised. If your trying to be witty I don't see how you accomplished that.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    It will be interesting to see how the " BIS" turns out compared to what people think is the more interesting choice.

    It will also be interesting to see how much it really matters in the end. I can see where it could just end up being a fun thing, but I also see a situation where it could turn into a nightmare even for the most casual of players.
    I hope Blizzard will provide us with some statistics of the pick ratios of different covenants per class. Will be interesting to see how much bigger percentage the "BiS" covenant has than the others (unless the BiS covenant is different for each spec, each content etc. then this won't give much info..)

  17. #77
    Going Necrolords with my Shaman, Primordial Wave doesn't seem too bad and I like the tankyness I can get with the different soulbinds, plus the transmogs are pretty badass for all the armor types. Oh and Fleshcraft is pretty sick when you change it with soulbinds.
    Last edited by Unholyground; 2020-09-04 at 12:53 PM.
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  18. #78
    Pick the covenant you want. The end. When players give you shit for it, block them and move on. Making "wrong" choices is a great way to filter out toxic assholes.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Pick the covenant you want. The end. When players give you shit for it, block them and move on. Making "wrong" choices is a great way to filter out toxic assholes.
    Works on both ends. In time addons will show everyone what you picked and those higher groups will take it one step further and never invite you to began with.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    Works on both ends. In time addons will show everyone what you picked and those higher groups will take it one step further and never invite you to began with.
    I don't believe any aspect of covenants beyond which covenant you are in is actually visible to other players, so no.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

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