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  1. #81
    Dreadlord GoKs's Avatar
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    I honestly have no idea yet what I am going to chose for any of my 3 classes. Going to play BM hunter, frost mage and DH (not sure what spec yet). I get the feeling there will still be some changes, but I really need to go read up on them lol. Time to stop being lazy I guess. I thought I would just test them while leveling, but apparently you cant test everything from them in their respected zones? Not sure if I understood it correctly.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    I mean you don't know how how method works... method is already near bis slot by the time they fight the boss and usually have more powerful raids before nerfs. Just like how they had better corruptions for znoth they had a corruption setup no one else really got to use.

    Showing you don't know how any of this works isn't that impressive of a feat. Hell that isn't even the point raised. If your trying to be witty I don't see how you accomplished that.
    Nope, I have seen their gear in BoD. They had literal garbage gear not even close to "bis". And it has been like this for good couple of years. You have clearly no clue as it's even mathematically impossible for them to get "near bis" in 2 resets. Even with gear funneling the best they can get is like half of the gear from heroic. Not to mention only like ~6 items from myhic.

    So please acting like you know if you are wrong.

  3. #83
    Well for warlock at least it all seems to point me to necrolords. decimating bolt is just too good.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrel8490 View Post
    Well for warlock at least it all seems to point me to necrolords. decimating bolt is just too good.
    If you pick your covenant based solely on the class ability, you are going to have a bad time.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  5. #85
    Old God HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Ret's rn: Well...Venthyr doesn't look too bad, at least.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by facefist View Post
    I hope Blizzard will provide us with some statistics of the pick ratios of different covenants per class. Will be interesting to see how much bigger percentage the "BiS" covenant has than the others (unless the BiS covenant is different for each spec, each content etc. then this won't give much info..)
    Blizzard probably won't but warcraftlogs probably will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Pick the covenant you want. The end. When players give you shit for it, block them and move on. Making "wrong" choices is a great way to filter out toxic assholes.
    People don't choose powerful abilities because other people "give them shit". They choose powerful abilities because they want to be powerful, and do the best they can.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Blizzard probably won't but warcraftlogs probably will.

    - - - Updated - - -



    People don't choose powerful abilities because other people "give them shit". They choose powerful abilities because they want to be powerful, and do the best they can.
    So you admit that "I will get passed over for groups or benched" is a bullshit line?
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    If you pick your covenant based solely on the class ability, you are going to have a bad time.
    Seems like the most reasonable way to pick a covenant to me. I don't give a shit about aesthetics or lore. My characters actual abilities are way more important to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    So you admit that "I will get passed over for groups or benched" is a bullshit line?
    No, it's not bullshit at all. People will absolutely pick and choose players for groups based on what covenant they pick. Dungeon mechanics literally force them to.

    You don't care about that, that is fine. But that does not make it any less real.

    Also, I don't think people wanting to actually maximise their chances of achieving goals is "toxic". Bad game design is not their fault. It's not the fault of players that rogues were 100 times better than any other class in BFA M+, for example. That is Blizzard's fault.

    And that comparison is not accidental, picking the right covenant for the dungeon will literally allow you to skip trash packs, just as shroud does.
    Last edited by ydraw; 2020-09-04 at 06:11 PM.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Seems like the most reasonable way to pick a covenant to me. I don't give a shit about aesthetics or lore. My characters actual abilities are way more important to me.
    If you care so much about that stuff, why would you pick on class ability alone and ignore the covenant ability, the soulbinds, and the exclusive legendaries?

    No, it's not bullshit at all. People will absolutely pick and choose players for groups based on what covenant they pick. Dungeon mechanics literally force them to.

    You don't care about that, that is fine. But that does not make it any less real.
    Which is it? Do people pick the optimal choice because they want to, or do they pick because otherwise they will get passed over? You realize these are contradictory, right?
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Which is it? Do people pick the optimal choice because they want to, or do they pick because otherwise they will get passed over? You realize these are contradictory, right?
    I don't see how they are contradictory at all.

    People pick the optimal choice because they want to play their class to the best of their ability, and part of the reason to want to do that is so that they actually get invited to do content.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    I don't see how they are contradictory at all.

    People pick the optimal choice because they want to play their class to the best of their ability, and part of the reason to want to do that is so that they actually get invited to do content.
    "I want to pick X, but I can't because I'll get passed over"

    AND

    "I just want to pick the most powerful one"

    Those contradict each other because the first one implies a feeling of being cheated out of the choice you want, while the second indicates you don't care which you pick as long as its the best.

    So, which is it?
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    If you care so much about that stuff, why would you pick on class ability alone and ignore the covenant ability, the soulbinds, and the exclusive legendaries?
    For some classes/specs, the class ability is absurdly powerful. See decimating bolt for Warlocks, or Deathborne for Arcane mages. For some other classes the base covenant ability would be more important, so that will define their choice. AFAIK legendaries are not covenant-specific.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    "I want to pick X, but I can't because I'll get passed over"

    AND

    "I just want to pick the most powerful one"

    Those contradict each other because the first one implies a feeling of being cheated out of the choice you want, while the second indicates you don't care which you pick as long as its the best.

    So, which is it?
    They don't contradict each other at all.

    If you decided to play a prot warrior and decided to wear all cloth armor, you'd be rubbish at your class and you'd get passed over/benched, for the reason that you're rubbish at your class.

    Likewise if there is a theoretically a covenant ability that makes your mage do 25% more DPS than the other choices, and you decided not to take it, you'd be intentionally gimping your character and you'd be likely to be benched as a result.
    Last edited by ydraw; 2020-09-04 at 06:24 PM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    For some classes/specs, the class ability is absurdly powerful. See decimating bolt for Warlocks, or Deathborne for Arcane mages. For some other classes the base covenant ability would be more important, so that will define their choice. AFAIK legendaries are not covenant-specific.
    They said there will be covenant specific legendaries. Perhaps they changed their mind.

    I'm not quite sure what you are arguing with me about? If you want to min max, you should consider everything that comes with the covenant. I didn't say, ignore the class ability. I said consider everything. In some cases, the other stuff may matter, so its worth at least considering. Stop fishing for an argument.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    They don't contradict each other at all.

    If you decided to play a prot warrior and decided to wear all cloth armor, you'd be rubbish at your class and you'd get passed over/benched, for the reason that you're rubbish at your class.
    If you don't see the difference between someone who wants to pick Venthyr but picks Necrolords because they don't want to be benched, and someone who picks Necrolords because they don't care and just want the most powerful one, I don't really know what to tell you, aside from that you obviously are incapable of discussing this in good faith.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    If you don't see the difference between someone who wants to pick Venthyr but picks Necrolords because they don't want to be benched, and someone who picks Necrolords because they don't care and just want the most powerful one, I don't really know what to tell you, aside from that you obviously are incapable of discussing this in good faith.
    Wanting to pick the most powerful choice because you want to be good at your class because you don't want to be benched is not contradictory.

    Note you didn't just say they are "different", you said they are contradictory. Those 2 words are not synonyms.

  15. #95
    I'm gonna straight up go fotm dps as a new main right before launch and at that time I will also check on which covenant is best with my fotm dps.

    I won't be able to decide that until the xpak launches though. Probably that day.

  16. #96
    For bm - Necrolord really but kyrian is an option. the kyrian ability loses a lot of lustre if your target moves and later in the expansion when you get a lot of crit from secondaries. The chakram will hit 7 times on one target for a LOT of damage. the potion you get from kyrian is it's own cd separate from hs and health pots. as an extremely mobile ranged dps you also have easier opportunities to channel that necrolord shield for unavoidable raidwise damage.
    for mm - venthyr or necrolord. due to MM scaling their own shots at a higher rate, they get a LOT more from the venthyr dot and kill shot proc than the other specs and the dot should do more over a minute than chakrams will since it's 3 applications vs. 1 and as the duration is shorter than the cooldown you don't really need a WA to track it.
    for survival - reroll bm or mm

    as for the discussion about being passed over - if you are not playing one of the classes that provides one of those 5% raidwide buffs or bloodlust, expect that to be a reality regardless of your covenant choice.
    Last edited by Dixa; 2020-09-04 at 06:46 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Wanting to pick the most powerful choice because you want to be good at your class because you don't want to be benched is not contradictory.

    Note you didn't just say they are "different", you said they are contradictory. Those 2 words are not synonyms.
    "I want Venthyr but feel like I'm not allowed to pick them"

    "I don't care which covenant I pick as long as its the best"

    These are contradictory. They are mutually exclusive.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Dixa View Post
    as for the discussion about being passed over - if you are not playing one of the classes that provides one of those 5% raidwide buffs or bloodlust, expect that to be a reality regardless of your covenant choice.
    Being passed over in favor of a FOTM spec/class has always been a reality in WoW.

    But now you've got an additional layer of choice that could cause that too - your covenant choice.

    It wouldn't be so bad if covenants didn't literally dictate the available paths in M+, that's the real offender here.

    Before you'd see ads in group finder such as "LF1M ranged, bloodlust class"
    Now you're going to see "LF1M ranged, bloodlust, Kyrian" etc.

    The second one is going to be caused exclusively by the covenant-specific dungeon buffs/checkpoints which are just an incredibly stupid idea, much like class buffs are.

    At least with the class buffs you could argue that they exist as an insurance against class balance issues (e.g. it means raids will always bring at least 1 warrior, even if warriors are awful), but I can't see any real justification for the existence of covenant-specific dungeon buffs. They seem to exist only to make people feel bad and to make it harder to assemble groups.
    Last edited by ydraw; 2020-09-04 at 07:08 PM.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Being passed over in favor of a FOTM spec/class has always been a reality in WoW.

    But now you've got an additional layer of choice that could cause that too - your covenant choice.

    It wouldn't be so bad if covenants didn't literally dictate the available paths in M+, that's the real offender here.

    Before you'd see ads in group finder such as "LF1M ranged, bloodlust class"
    Now you're going to see "LF1M ranged, bloodlust, Kyrian".
    Seeing that doesn't make you unable to find groups.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Seeing that doesn't make you unable to find groups.
    It doesn't make you completely unable to find groups, no, but it both reduces the total potential groups that are available to you, and it also simply makes assembling a suitable group for a dungeon much more difficult than it needs to be. You really shouldn't have to think about what covenant the players you are inviting are aligned to, but because being a certain covenant opens up skips, provides more checkpoints, and turns on buffs in certain dungeons, you will have to. And that's even assuming all the covenant abilities are perfectly balanced. It's a stupid design.

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