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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by skorgg View Post
    Think of them as class halls in Legion. It should make little to no impact.
    so much for Ion's "meaningful choice"...

  2. #42
    Stood in the Fire Krimzin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iperson View Post
    so much for Ion's "meaningful choice"...
    And thats one opinion, not shared by everyone. Im looking forward to the Covenants.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by skorgg View Post
    Think of them as class halls in Legion. It should make little to no impact.
    ???????

    It makes no impact in terms of lore maybe but gameplay wise, you cannot do a lot of world quests with each other. Class halls were not as restricted
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharnie786 View Post
    ???????

    It makes no impact in terms of lore maybe but gameplay wise, you cannot do a lot of world quests with each other. Class halls were not as restricted
    I believe the world quests are identical. Only the quest text changes. #Meaningful

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    That is a false assumption. Literally furthest from the truth.

    Like a hammer and an axe. Assuming you want to hammer the nails, both tools can probably do it.

    So if you want to hammer like 10 nails you buy whatever is cheaper.
    If you want to hammer 10 000 nails you probably pick a hammer.
    If you want to hammer 100 nails and cut a tree you will be looking for hammer and axe in one.
    If you want to cut 10 trees you will be looking for an axe
    If you want to cut 1000 trees you will be looking for a chainsaw
    If you want to cut 1000 trees and hammer 10 000 nails you will buy every tool you need.

    That is literally covenant choice, your logic is faulty.
    Sure, but everybody is arguing as if m+ is 10000 trees and raiding is 10000 nails and you can only pick one so its the end of the world, when in reality m+ could be 100 trees and raiding could be 100 nails and it's completely fine.

    now im not too confident in blizz ability to balance, but considering the general lack of actual numbers posted about these abilities i'm leaning closer to the latter atm.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2020-09-03 at 03:24 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    Sure, but everybody is arguing as if m+ is 10000 trees and raiding is 10000 nails and you can only pick one so its the end of the world, when in reality m+ could be 100 trees and raiding could be 100 nails and it's completely fine.

    now im not too confident in blizz ability to balance, but considering the general lack of actual numbers posted about these abilities i'm leaning closer to the latter atm.
    Most people (at least on forum) think they will need 10 000 trees (M+ 25 and higher) and 10 000 nails (mythic cleared first month) while reality is they will only do 100 trees (M+ ~18) and 100 nails (mythic cleared after 5 months or not even that).

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharnie786 View Post
    ???????

    It makes no impact in terms of lore maybe but gameplay wise, you cannot do a lot of world quests with each other. Class halls were not as restricted
    What? World quests are the same regardless of your Covenant.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharnie786 View Post
    ???????

    It makes no impact in terms of lore maybe but gameplay wise, you cannot do a lot of world quests with each other. Class halls were not as restricted
    No, they can do those just fine. World Quests are completely independent from Covenants. Only the Covenant campaign and certain Covenant specific activities(like the Path of Ascension or the Ember Court, all of which are solo activities) are restricted.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Most people (at least on forum) think they will need 10 000 trees (M+ 25 and higher) and 10 000 nails (mythic cleared first month) while reality is they will only do 100 trees (M+ ~18) and 100 nails (mythic cleared after 5 months or not even that).
    Half of them will probably lose interest halfway through the first tree and bending one nail, before actually learning how to properly do either with the correct tools.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    If you were angling to misunderstand me as much as possible, you succeeded.

    But first, if you think active covenant ability A and active covenant B have enough of a gulf between them for one to be "good" and the other to be "bad", you must have trouble with the color gray. One being optimal and the other being less so? Sure. But bad connotes a lot more than "not the optimal choice". But you seem to only speak hyperbole so I guess this isn't shocking.

    But to clarify the point of mine you aren't getting - my point is that you do have a choice of covenant, but you are eliminating that choice when you choose to play elite tier competitive instead since that likely will shoehorn you into a specific covenant for it's active ability. Just like a raider who faction/race changes to exploit a specific racial ability.

    These are all choices that you make. My original point was, and has continued to be, that acting like you don't have a choice of covenant is disingenuous. Of course you do. But you're denying yourself that choice by choosing the elite tier playstyle.

    And if that's what you want, that's fine. Just accept that you made a decision with a cost and get over it.

    I've decided I'd rather play the covenant I want, which is not necessarily the covenant that's optimal. I've accepted that the decision I've made comes with a cost (probably no elite tier for me) and I'm over it.
    The problem is that it's bad game design. The choice is sold as an RP one, but for that, we have to sacrifice the aesthetic portion of the game which is a significant factor. That doesn't make the choice interesting. You seem to be under the impression that the difference between the best and worst covenants is relatively minor. While I hope this is the case, literally every previous iteration of the game indicates that it will not be.

    Remember before Cataclysm when you had no control over your character's appearance and if you wanted to wear the gear you liked the look of the most you couldn't do relevant content? That was just a part of the game, sure, but then they fixed it by adding transmog, and it's one of the game's most popular features. People like choosing how their characters look. It's fun. Arbitrarily forcing a choice between that and performing at the highest level is not fun. If the decision being made makes the game less fun for a lot of players, then it's a bad decision.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broombot View Post
    I want to play Kyrian and my wife is interested in playing Night Fae, aside from the campaigns for each covenant, how restricted is our game play together going to be? I know we can run dungeons and raids together, but how will this effect world quests and other general free play?
    If anything, the diversification is to your benefit. Together, you're guaranteed to have a covenant bonus for half the dungeons.
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    That is a false assumption. Literally furthest from the truth.

    Like a hammer and an axe...your logic is faulty.
    Your analogy is completely wrong.

    Cosmetics are useless in comparison to good skills so your analogy of a hammer and an axe that can both hit the nail is wrong.

    Cosmetics don’t get you in M+ do they? So how will the player get in M+? By “choosing” the right path. A fallacy that allows players to think they made educated choices when it’s a gauntlet with only one possible answer.

    Granted, there will be the odd RP fella who doesn’t Care about utility and they will choose the cool transmog. They are an exception.

    The rest of us don’t have a choice. If you want to play with daggers outlaw is not a choice. If you want to shoot fireballs frost is not a choice.

    Choice is: We have two dagger paths of same value. Not trashing subtlety and then telling players “but you had a choice”. No we didn’t. If we had chosen subtlety in BfA we would be obsolete.

    You are better than that man, don’t just argue to win the argument, argue to not be given a shit game by blizzard for another two years. We can’t stand another BfA. Not without a break anyway.
    Last edited by Motorman; 2020-09-03 at 07:40 PM. Reason: I felt like editing my grammar
    WoW forums in a nutshell:
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    So I was using a gold dupe hack. I don't know why i was banned for this. It is so unfair.
    People need an incentive to play content. "Its fun!" is simply not enough.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Not restrictive at all. The Covenant choice is about as binding when it comes to groups as the Scryer/Aldor choice was in TBC. It essentially effects only you and your character, and the only place your peers in other Convenants wouldn't be able to go is a Covenant Sanctum they're not a part of.
    Really... Isn't there also an entire Questline going on at the end of each? I did not finish those, i wanted to... enjoy those later.
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    The problem is that it's bad game design. The choice is sold as an RP one, but for that, we have to sacrifice the aesthetic portion of the game which is a significant factor...Arbitrarily forcing a choice between that and performing at the highest level is not fun. If the decision being made makes the game less fun for a lot of players, then it's a bad decision.
    Exactly my point. It’s not even a choice. We are “choosing” to be game relevant? Well who in their right mind wouldn’t? Let me think really hard do I want to look good or be kicked from 99% of groups for an entire expansion? Great “choice”...
    WoW forums in a nutshell:
    m8 i've been around since Feb 2005, I know it all.
    So I was using a gold dupe hack. I don't know why i was banned for this. It is so unfair.
    People need an incentive to play content. "Its fun!" is simply not enough.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoundOfGuns View Post
    Really... Isn't there also an entire Questline going on at the end of each? I did not finish those, i wanted to... enjoy those later.
    There is, yes; the same as with the Scryers and Aldor - but that won't prevent you from doing them with your guildmates or what have you, either. Obviously helpers won't be able to see the denouement of them in the Covenant sanctum, but they can help with the various objectives.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Broombot View Post
    I want to play Kyrian and my wife is interested in playing Night Fae, aside from the campaigns for each covenant, how restricted is our game play together going to be? I know we can run dungeons and raids together, but how will this effect world quests and other general free play?
    They only really impact how well your class performs, not what you actually do once you're online.
    They are far from balanced though so you might very well end up gimping yourslef if you go just for the looks.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Your analogy is completely wrong.

    Cosmetics are useless in comparison to good skills so your analogy of a hammer and an axe that can both hit the nail is wrong.

    Cosmetics don’t get you in M+ do they? So how will the player get in M+? By “choosing” the right path. A fallacy that allows players to think they made educated choices when it’s a gauntlet with only one possible answer.

    Granted, there will be the odd RP fella who doesn’t Care about utility and they will choose the cool transmog. They are an exception.

    The rest of us don’t have a choice. If you want to play with daggers outlaw is not a choice. If you want to shoot fireballs frost is not a choice.

    Choice is: We have two dagger paths of same value. Not trashing subtlety and then telling players “but you had a choice”. No we didn’t. If we had chosen subtlety in BfA we would be obsolete.

    You are better than that man, don’t just argue to win the argument, argue to not be given a shit game by blizzard for another two years. We can’t stand another BfA. Not without a break anyway.
    Nope, my analogy is literally spot on.

    Nobody was talking about cosmetics.

    RIO gets you in M+, not covenant. And skills (and effort) gives you rio. Simple as that.
    Covenants are literally the least of concerns about SL. And since BfA did fairly good I guess we can stand another BfA.

    Covenants are like tools. Screwdriver, axe, hammer etc. You CAN use pretty much all of them to hammer the nails but some are better and some are worse for that job.
    And skilled carpenter can hammer the nails with a fucking screwdriver better than massive amount of people using hammer that usually end up with their fingers crushed.

    You are not given them at random
    You do not need to wait 8 months to switch them while farmin everyday

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Nope, my analogy is literally spot on.
    RIO gets you in M+, not covenant. And skills (and effort) gives you rio. Simple as that.
    Perhaps you should take sometime off reading your own stuff and search this and so many other forums where users are getting ready to cancel the existence of players that will choose “the wrong” covenant.

    All that stuff you say about individual skill and effort are nice words for forum consumption. Then reality kicks in.

    I really wish you were right I mean we all want choice but this is WoW and this is its community. We all know how this ends up.
    WoW forums in a nutshell:
    m8 i've been around since Feb 2005, I know it all.
    So I was using a gold dupe hack. I don't know why i was banned for this. It is so unfair.
    People need an incentive to play content. "Its fun!" is simply not enough.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by glszino View Post
    Well, I disagree. I think he is a great content creator that really wants WoW to be a great game. He raised many good points and give lots of valuable feedback for a lot of previous, current and next systems that Blizzard wants.
    The look on his face when he was busted for cheating and realised he would not be invited to a Dev Q&A. Priceless.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by glszino View Post
    Well, I disagree. I think he is a great content creator that really wants WoW to be a great game. He raised many good points and give lots of valuable feedback for a lot of previous, current and next systems that Blizzard wants.
    IN other worrds, he makes points you agree with. Basically you think he is great because he panders to your opinions.

    Preach is irrelevant. His opinion means nothing more than yours or mine. Using him to validate your opinion means you aren't able to make your own opinions and stand up for them yourself.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    IN other worrds, he makes points you agree with. Basically you think he is great because he panders to your opinions.

    Preach is irrelevant. His opinion means nothing more than yours or mine. Using him to validate your opinion means you aren't able to make your own opinions and stand up for them yourself.
    Maybe don't imply things next time?

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