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  1. #121
    Fluffy Kitten xChurch's Avatar
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    Given how much more extreme force powers are shown to be in the sequels I am almost surprised they didn't have Luke take on all those AT-ATs in Ep 8 himself.

    As for the topic, I think Star Trek: Beyond is the best of the new trilogy, not that any of them are particularly good at least Beyond actually feels the most like Star Trek and I actually do like the newer cast. They aren't better than the OGs of course but I thought overall they did pretty good.

  2. #122
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Part of it was I think they focused too much on Sauron and the be-all end-all evil force. Morgoth was only vaguely referred to at the Council of Elrond. Tom Bombadil was also mentioned there in the books as a possible guardian for the ring, that was cut too. There was no mention of the "things deeper and darker than Sauron that even he knew not" and no exposition as to Shelob's backstory. Anything bigger and older than Sauron was cut.
    It looks like you wanted the book. Well, you have the book. A movie is a different thing. I also like the Scouring of the Shire, but it would have been dragging a movie that was long enough already. Sauron IS the main antagonist of the movie. Once Sauron is destroyed, there's no need to drag the story much longer. You can do it in a book, but it's boring in a movie.

    Morgoth plays no part in the story (he hasn't played any part since the end of the First Age) and is barely mentionned in the books. No need to introduce a character that we do not see in a movie that is already filled to the brim with named characters.

    There was no need for an exposition to Shelob's backstory. Sam had no way to know it and I really doubt that Gollum knew it either. She's a minor character afterall.

    Tom Bombadil was the doll of one of Tolkien's son, and he introduced the character just to please him. It's an interesting character and that part of the story was fun, but it was too childish and lighthearted for the tone of the movies. It didn't added much to the main plot. Also, after all these years, fans are still debating over who are Tom Bombadil and Goldberry and where do they fit in the legendarium. Are they Maïar? The Valar Aulë and Yavanna? Eru Iluvatar himself? No convincing answer has been found, except what Goldberry says "Tom Bombadil is". You don't want that in a three hours movie.

    My main gripe with Jackson's movies was the characterization of some characters: Elrond, Galadriel, Legolas (too haughty, too stern and too "super" for Legolas), Aragorn's story (unwilling king who only accepts his role when Arwen falls ill), Faramir and Denethor. But overall, the trilogy was A.O.K. The Hobbit? Well, that's another story...
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    It looks like you wanted the book. Well, you have the book. A movie is a different thing. I also like the Scouring of the Shire, but it would have been dragging a movie that was long enough already. Sauron IS the main antagonist of the movie. Once Sauron is destroyed, there's no need to drag the story much longer. You can do it in a book, but it's boring in a movie.

    Morgoth plays no part in the story (he hasn't played any part since the end of the First Age) and is barely mentionned in the books. No need to introduce a character that we do not see in a movie that is already filled to the brim with named characters.

    There was no need for an exposition to Shelob's backstory. Sam had no way to know it and I really doubt that Gollum knew it either. She's a minor character afterall.

    Tom Bombadil was the doll of one of Tolkien's son, and he introduced the character just to please him. It's an interesting character and that part of the story was fun, but it was too childish and lighthearted for the tone of the movies. It didn't added much to the main plot. Also, after all these years, fans are still debating over who are Tom Bombadil and Goldberry and where do they fit in the legendarium. Are they Maïar? The Valar Aulë and Yavanna? Eru Iluvatar himself? No convincing answer has been found, except what Goldberry says "Tom Bombadil is". You don't want that in a three hours movie.

    My main gripe with Jackson's movies was the characterization of some characters: Elrond, Galadriel, Legolas (too haughty, too stern and too "super" for Legolas), Aragorn's story (unwilling king who only accepts his role when Arwen falls ill), Faramir and Denethor. But overall, the trilogy was A.O.K. The Hobbit? Well, that's another story...
    Elrond, yeah. In the books he was supportive and helpful, in the movies he was depressed and had already given up.

    Galadriel they were pretty faithful to, though to note I haven't seen the Hobbit movies just the LotR ones.

    Legolas I also think they got pretty spot on. His growing friendship with Gimli was one of the high points of the series to me.

    Faramir, like I mentioned before, was a travesty. They were so intent on hyping up Sauron that they removed the one man to straight up resist the Ring in order to make Sauron look better.

    Denethor I'm not sure. I'd have to review the books again. My understanding was he was a good leader but a dickish dad who stupidly challenged Sauron through the palantir and was thusly one blow away from the despair event horizon and even thinking his last son had died pushed him over.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  4. #124

  5. #125
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Elrond, yeah. In the books he was supportive and helpful, in the movies he was depressed and had already given up.

    Galadriel they were pretty faithful to, though to note I haven't seen the Hobbit movies just the LotR ones.
    My main problem with Jackson's Galadriel is that, like most Elves in the movies, she is too lofty, too stern. I always read Galadriel as being regal, of course, but she was also warm, welcoming and simple.

    Legolas I also think they got pretty spot on. His growing friendship with Gimli was one of the high points of the series to me.
    Same thing with Legolas. In the book, Legolas is the merry one in the group. He would even joke, saying that he is going to fetch the Sun or something like that. He's also kinda optimistic, having hope for mankind while Gimli is more critical. He's the oldest (after Gandalf), yet there's a youthfulness about him. I don't see that in the movie. Sometimes, I even wonder if I am seeing a Vulcan. And then there's his battle prowess... I really don't like SuperLegolas, and it gets worse in the Hobbit.

    Faramir, like I mentioned before, was a travesty. They were so intent on hyping up Sauron that they removed the one man to straight up resist the Ring in order to make Sauron look better.

    Denethor I'm not sure. I'd have to review the books again. My understanding was he was a good leader but a dickish dad who stupidly challenged Sauron through the palantir and was thusly one blow away from the despair event horizon and even thinking his last son had died pushed him over.
    In the book, Denethor is shown first as being prideful, easy to anger, wise, cunning, valorous (he's always wearing his chainmail under his robes as if he was going to battle). He is not hopeless yet and you don't get the feeling he is crazy. He's also very impressed by Pippin and kind to him. Despair and madness only get to him when he believes his son Faramir dead and that the black sails the palantir showed him were pirates from Umbar. In the movie, we see almost right away that something's not right. Thus, when he gets really crazy, there's no real surpris and the scene is less emotional.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    My main problem with Jackson's Galadriel is that, like most Elves in the movies, she is too lofty, too stern. I always read Galadriel as being regal, of course, but she was also warm, welcoming and simple.



    Same thing with Legolas. In the book, Legolas is the merry one in the group. He would even joke, saying that he is going to fetch the Sun or something like that. He's also kinda optimistic, having hope for mankind while Gimli is more critical. He's the oldest (after Gandalf), yet there's a youthfulness about him. I don't see that in the movie. Sometimes, I even wonder if I am seeing a Vulcan. And then there's his battle prowess... I really don't like SuperLegolas, and it gets worse in the Hobbit.



    In the book, Denethor is shown first as being prideful, easy to anger, wise, cunning, valorous (he's always wearing his chainmail under his robes as if he was going to battle). He is not hopeless yet and you don't get the feeling he is crazy. He's also very impressed by Pippin and kind to him. Despair and madness only get to him when he believes his son Faramir dead and that the black sails the palantir showed him were pirates from Umbar. In the movie, we see almost right away that something's not right. Thus, when he gets really crazy, there's no real surpris and the scene is less emotional.
    Well, Galadriel IS haughty. Unlike most of the other elves of her kind she didn't leave the Undying Lands for any cause like claiming the Silmarils or aiding the innocent. She came to Middle Earth so she could be a big fish in a small pond and have her own kingdom.

    I'll have to read the books again, it's been a while. But if what you say it true and they changed him that much it would be sad. He did, still, have moments of humor. Like at the Battle of Helm's Deep he asks Gimli if he would like him to get him a box so he can see what's going on. And Gimli's begging Aragorn not to tell Legolas that he tossed him, knowing he'd be teased for it.

    As for Denethor, yeah, they moved too fast. We didn't get to see pre-depair Denethor. His relationship with Pippin was rather chillier than I remember in the book too.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

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