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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Hey my gear level is lower than the average of most casual players for the final patch of BFA. You believe whatever you want.

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    Yes.

    So far Bone Spike is easy to use out in open world, dungeons and PVP. I can't say the same for the other three. I am not interested in downloading an addon to make Rogue kyrian echoing reprimand work.

    Sepsis I guess can work in PVP situations if you need to vanish after 10 seconds but for solo? No way. Plus, a free vanish doesn't benefit Sub and Outlaw that much compared to Assassination. Sub has vanish and shadow dance charges so it is devalued as a covenant choice while Outlaw doesn't make use of free stealth openers.

    Then you have venthyr slaughter which is just a fancy version of ambush/shadowtrike which doesn't feel different and then the venthyr vampiric effect that lasts 2 minutes while my wound poisons lasts for one hour. Constantly reapplying it every 2 minutes is very annoying.
    I know you’re talking about Rogues, but this actually reminded me that Necrolords give a glaive throw ability when SV already has one that functions close to the same (baseline one hits targets in its path instead of bounces and no focus gen).
    Sticking with Covenant issues I want to use Hunter as an example again where Venthyr might be good for MM and SV but isn’t that good for BM since there are no damage modifiers to KS for BM, whereas Necrolords seems to overtake all of them for all specs right now. This also means that if I start MM and use Venthyr and then either MM is nerfed or BM just scales like it always has then not only do I want new gear but I also should change Covenants to not nerf myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I don't care. Casual is a statement on your level of seriousness with which you take the game, not a gear level.

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    Casual
    without definite or serious intention; careless or offhand; passing:
    a casual remark.
    seeming or tending to be indifferent to what is happening; apathetic; unconcerned:
    a casual, nonchalant air.
    without emotional intimacy or commitment:
    Hey look, I can copy paste definitions, too:
    noun
    a worker employed only irregularly.
    a soldier temporarily at a station or other place of duty, and usually en route to another station.
    Usually casuals . an article of clothing for casual wear.
    ***a person who does something only occasionally:****

    I put asterisks around the most precise point, but all of those are about time spent/invested.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    I know you’re talking about Rogues, but this actually reminded me that Necrolords give a glaive throw ability when SV already has one that functions close to the same (baseline one hits targets in its path instead of bounces and no focus gen).
    Sticking with Covenant issues I want to use Hunter as an example again where Venthyr might be good for MM and SV but isn’t that good for BM since there are no damage modifiers to KS for BM, whereas Necrolords seems to overtake all of them for all specs right now. This also means that if I start MM and use Venthyr and then either MM is nerfed or BM just scales like it always has then not only do I want new gear but I also should change Covenants to not nerf myself.

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    Hey look, I can copy paste definitions, too:
    noun
    a worker employed only irregularly.
    a soldier temporarily at a station or other place of duty, and usually en route to another station.
    Usually casuals . an article of clothing for casual wear.
    ***a person who does something only occasionally:****

    I put asterisks around the most precise point, but all of those are about time spent/invested.
    You realize that doesn't change the point right? Someone who spends all of their time posting on a frum about wow, talking about wow, analyzing wow, isn't engaging with wow "occasionally".
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  3. #403
    Herald of the Titans Aeriedk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Night Fae Sepsis can not be used in a solo situation because the forced vanish resets mobs.
    Oh well. You're casual. The point I'm making is that if you're casual then it doesn't matter, just pick what you enjoy. If you don't enjoy it then move onto another covenant. If you can't because you want to min/max then you aren't as casual as you think you are.

    You're entitled to your opinion, just don't claim you're something you're not.

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  4. #404
    If it's better then bfa then great, if it's the same as bfa it can't get worse.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    You realize that doesn't change the point right? Someone who spends all of their time posting on a frum about wow, talking about wow, analyzing wow, isn't engaging with wow "occasionally".
    Pretty sure I just proved my point which was, simply, you both were correct in your use of casual; however, you were mistaken that it only applied to your personal definition of it.
    Someone who posts on forums can still play casually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeriedk View Post
    Oh well. You're casual. The point I'm making is that if you're casual then it doesn't matter, just pick what you enjoy. If you don't enjoy it then move onto another covenant. If you can't because you want to min/max then you aren't as casual as you think you are.

    You're entitled to your opinion, just don't claim you're something you're not.
    This is just false and your personal opinion. There is no set rule that casuals can’t enjoy playing the best choice when it comes to min/max. That person might never hit the same damage as high end raiders, but that in no way translates to “I’m casual therefore I don’t care.”
    I really wish people would stop using these subjective statements like they are some kind of rule of the mentality of every person who plays a game.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeriedk View Post
    Oh well. You're casual. The point I'm making is that if you're casual then it doesn't matter, just pick what you enjoy. If you don't enjoy it then move onto another covenant. If you can't because you want to min/max then you aren't as casual as you think you are.

    You're entitled to your opinion, just don't claim you're something you're not.
    Not being able to use something solo is anti casual as far as I am concerned. So that leaves just necro as the clear winner.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  7. #407
    Herald of the Titans Aeriedk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Not being able to use something solo is anti casual as far as I am concerned. So that leaves just necro as the clear winner.
    Then go play necro lol. Play what you want to play. That's the advantage of being casual.

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  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeriedk View Post
    Then go play necro lol. Play what you want to play. That's the advantage of being casual.
    Nooooooooooooo because necro will be nerfed and then I will nothing to play with solo.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  9. #409
    Herald of the Titans Aeriedk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Pretty sure I just proved my point which was, simply, you both were correct in your use of casual; however, you were mistaken that it only applied to your personal definition of it.
    Someone who posts on forums can still play casually.

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    This is just false and your personal opinion. There is no set rule that casuals can’t enjoy playing the best choice when it comes to min/max. That person might never hit the same damage as high end raiders, but that in no way translates to “I’m casual therefore I don’t care.”
    I really wish people would stop using these subjective statements like they are some kind of rule of the mentality of every person who plays a game.
    The point is he is claiming to be a casual and then therefore speaks for all casual players. What right does he have to define himself as casual and therefore set the definition for all other casuals?

    I'm a casual to a certain degree in that I don't dedicate the time I used to. I min/max...I've played at the top level of mythic (heroic back in the day) pushing for world first and I've played just for fun in Heroic (normal back in the day).

    I will make the point that if you're a true casual then you should just play what you enjoy. He is claiming that he CAN'T play Fae because necro spike is sooooo good. Which is false...he can play it...if he wants to. Literally the only barriers that are preventing him from playing Fae are the ones that he himself is creating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Nooooooooooooo because necro will be nerfed and then I will nothing to play with solo.
    Even if it is nerfed you can still play it. This is more about wanting to play the best thing 100% of the time...which you can...you can switch covenants.

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  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeriedk View Post
    The point is he is claiming to be a casual and then therefore speaks for all casual players. What right does he have to define himself as casual and therefore set the definition for all other casuals?

    I'm a casual to a certain degree in that I don't dedicate the time I used to. I min/max...I've played at the top level of mythic (heroic back in the day) pushing for world first and I've played just for fun in Heroic (normal back in the day).

    I will make the point that if you're a true casual then you should just play what you enjoy. He is claiming that he CAN'T play Fae because necro spike is sooooo good. Which is false...he can play it...if he wants to. Literally the only barriers that are preventing him from playing Fae are the ones that he himself is creating.

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    Even if it is nerfed you can still play it. This is more about wanting to play the best thing 100% of the time...which you can...you can switch covenants.

    That isn't true because if they nerf Necro hard then you have nothing to play with which defeats the entire point of playing the expansion.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  11. #411
    Herald of the Titans Aeriedk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    That isn't true because if they nerf Necro hard then you have nothing to play with which defeats the entire point of playing the expansion.
    Nothing to play with? If they nerf Necro...you can switch covenants...continue to play with necro albeit with a weaker spike, don't use the spike? Are you playing the expansion solely for the class abilities that covenants offer?

    I think the purpose of the expansion is the same purpose of all the previous expansions...PvP or PvE content and a storyline...the covenants are simply a piece of it.

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  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeriedk View Post
    Nothing to play with? If they nerf Necro...you can switch covenants...continue to play with necro albeit with a weaker spike, don't use the spike? Are you playing the expansion solely for the class abilities that covenants offer?

    I think the purpose of the expansion is the same purpose of all the previous expansions...PvP or PvE content and a storyline...the covenants are simply a piece of it.
    You are not reading what is being posted. You can't switch to other covenants as they simply don't work in solo situations for the most part for Rogues. Only Bone Spike works in solo situations reliably for Rogues. Venthyr replaces poisons and is very niche for PVP situations by stealing healing. For soloing situations instant and deadly poisons are better for solo play.

    It is not a tuning issue and Bone Spike is still useable regardless of the damage tuning they land on because it generates CPs at range and it is an infinity dot which tramples on Death Knight class fantasy.

    Having one choice by default is terrible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    No-one worth listening to will take pleasure in (maybe) being right about this sort of stuff though. It'll just be a shame
    At this point it is unavoidable as to what is to come with prepatch and launch of expansion. I think prepatch should be delayed by another month but they are committed to launch release for expansion so that is not happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shedaar View Post
    The thing is blizzard doesn't need additional funding to develop wow, it is pretty sustainable and has extremely good profits
    Classic only instigated boners in the CEO's pants when money started raining
    Well yes and no.

    Retail was on the ropes until classic came along which bought them time for the new expansion. But that window of opportunity is now closed and they must show what they have finished with the new expansion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    Well I certainly hope you don’t think you’re original with whatever the hell that was...

    I gave a compliment to the op on their analysis in good faith, the rest can be taken with a grain of salt. What’s amusing to me is how triggered the few of you have been over this. I mean really, just let it go lmao.
    I am not triggered personally but you are always welcome to join the discussion because prepatch is near and there is a lot to discuss like chromie time, level squish, new heirloom changes, etc.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  13. #413
    Herald of the Titans Aeriedk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    You are not reading what is being posted. You can't switch to other covenants as they simply don't work in solo situations for the most part for Rogues. Only Bone Spike works in solo situations reliably for Rogues. Venthyr replaces poisons and is very niche for PVP situations by stealing healing. For soloing situations instant and deadly poisons are better for solo play.

    It is not a tuning issue and Bone Spike is still useable regardless of the damage tuning they land on because it generates CPs at range and it is an infinity dot which tramples on Death Knight class fantasy.

    Having one choice by default is terrible.
    You started all of this with saying that you are a casual player but you are overly hung up on all of this. The point being is just play what you enjoy. I'm sorry you can't have it all. It is clearly a choice Blizzard is purposely making us make.

    I also really like Night Fae for DK, its something different. I have mained DK for 12 years...I've done all the dead necro stuff.

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  14. #414
    I find it funny that they just disabled Torghast in the beta, one month before official launch. Man, I wish they would take their time to fix the expansion before they rush yet another release with faulty systems.
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  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeriedk View Post
    You started all of this with saying that you are a casual player but you are overly hung up on all of this. The point being is just play what you enjoy. I'm sorry you can't have it all. It is clearly a choice Blizzard is purposely making us make.

    I also really like Night Fae for DK, its something different. I have mained DK for 12 years...I've done all the dead necro stuff.
    I am a casual player and having only one option for solo play is not fun.

    Covenant system is a failure IMVHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I find it funny that they just disabled Torghast in the beta, one month before official launch. Man, I wish they would take their time to fix the expansion before they rush yet another release with faulty systems.
    Agreed.

    They are rushing the expansion out and prepatch has no date of release yet. Prepatch has almost as many bugs as beta. But I think the bugs on beta are bigger show stoppers because there are several that are bottlenecks to progression of questlines.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  16. #416
    Mechagnome
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    they better not drop legacy raid drop rates to 1 item per boss

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I find it funny that they just disabled Torghast in the beta, one month before official launch. Man, I wish they would take their time to fix the expansion before they rush yet another release with faulty systems.
    I think they overestimated their ability to both build and test such a system... to my knowledge most raid testing was done without conduits or anything close to properly balanced covenants.

    It feels like they bite off a lot more then they could chew be that from not adapting as well to working at home as they claimed to of or simply the enormity of the systems they planned catching up with them I expect the launch to first patch to be a rocky ride.

    They haven't even made a pass over crafting yet leading a lot of players to believe they wont before launch. It is why basic crafting mats are going for so much right now in sl crafting items currently vendor for absurd amounts.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeriedk View Post
    Oh well. You're casual. The point I'm making is that if you're casual then it doesn't matter, just pick what you enjoy. If you don't enjoy it then move onto another covenant. If you can't because you want to min/max then you aren't as casual as you think you are.

    You're entitled to your opinion, just don't claim you're something you're not.
    how long does it take, thta even ppl like you, get, that even for casuals it feels shit, to know they underperform by nature (even when its 0.5% for them). ppl like you will never understand human nature. sorry.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskeyjac View Post
    I think they overestimated their ability to both build and test such a system... to my knowledge most raid testing was done without conduits or anything close to properly balanced covenants.

    It feels like they bite off a lot more then they could chew be that from not adapting as well to working at home as they claimed to of or simply the enormity of the systems they planned catching up with them I expect the launch to first patch to be a rocky ride.

    They haven't even made a pass over crafting yet leading a lot of players to believe they wont before launch. It is why basic crafting mats are going for so much right now in sl crafting items currently vendor for absurd amounts.
    I mean they have so many things to do right now and I cannot stress this enough: launch is in 38 days. We haven't seen any proper balancing for Covenants, conduits and classes in general. Several specs still are bugged and not working properly. Now they have the Torghast issues.

    And pre-patch? If they do not announce it today or tomorrow (which would make the time from announcement to release the shortest yet with 9-10 days), it'll be Oct 6 the earliest.

    We had the same problems from 8.0 -> 8.1 and 9.0 -> 9.1. I do not understand why they had to set the release date at end of October, when end of November could have worked as well.
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  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I mean they have so many things to do right now and I cannot stress this enough: launch is in 38 days. We haven't seen any proper balancing for Covenants, conduits and classes in general. Several specs still are bugged and not working properly. Now they have the Torghast issues.

    And pre-patch? If they do not announce it today or tomorrow (which would make the time from announcement to release the shortest yet with 9-10 days), it'll be Oct 6 the earliest.

    We had the same problems from 8.0 -> 8.1 and 9.0 -> 9.1. I do not understand why they had to set the release date at end of October, when end of November could have worked as well.
    Prepatch should be coming out within two weeks. But if the latest prepatch comes out would be Oct 6th which is very close to launch of expansion itself. I too think it it all too soon.

    Currently the PTR is more "stable" than beta but the bugs that exist on the PTR and beta are numerous. Plus, the PTR features many undocumented changes that we do not know if they are mistakes or not. Mount equipment being unlocked at level 40 is a massive nerf to a feature that came with this current expansion. I will never understand why the current dev team quickly abandons features and systems so quickly without investing some time developing further.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

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