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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by lagiacrux View Post
    why, as a self confessed "super casual player" do you even care, if one ability is so much better than the other? its not like it matters since you dont do any challenging content anyway.
    I don't think it is about challenging content alone that plagues covenant design.

    Sepsis for example can not be used questing solo because it resets mobs as soon as the vanish is forced. Venthyr ability basically replaces poisons and isn't that powerful as it is a downgrade as you have to reapply it every 2 minutes compared to poisons that last one hours which makes it very cumbersome.

    Kyrian Rogue ability relies on exact CP usage for max damage but it is hard to rely on that given how RNG Rogue CPs generation are in general.

    The problem with covenants cuts deeper than top percent of players and min/max from my view.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    I am not so sure because the template for the new expansion was already tested with patch 8.3 content. That game play loop with visions and corruptions is the building block of how the new expansion will work in a similar fashion.

    You will need to participate in the maw and torghast to progress on a weekly basis and there is no avoiding this game play loop like in patch 8.3 you had to participate in the game play loop to progress the cloak and be able to use corruptions.

    That is literally nothing compared to the general state of the game Bfa had until 8.2.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    That is literally nothing compared to the general state of the game Bfa had until 8.2.
    I think azerite armor at launch was bad and said as much before BFA launched. But covenant locking is going to be worse than even legion legiondaries. It is truly going to be punishing to those that want to play another spec or different build for a different aspect of game play for the week.

    There is a huge overlap of players that dip into various part of WoW's end game whether it is questing, dungeons, M+, world PVP, unrated/rated instanced PVP and also raiding.

    If a player wants to switch to a tank spec for the weekend to help out his guild and he can not that will feel bad. Lost player agency is a big, big issue.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Based on beta feedback it can be saved though if they pull the rip cord
    Hope not, covenants being a meaningful choice is one of the best parts about Shadowloands.

    There are a lot of other tweaks they can do before destroying the system totally as you suggest.

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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Based on beta feedback it can be saved though if they pull the rip cord IMVHO.

    They can save covenants and the expansion if they just listen to players.
    A bit to late for that I think now.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Beet View Post
    Probably because it’s often true.
    It cannot ... by definition... be true

    There are ONLY three possible reasons to vote for Donald J Trump this November.
    You are ignorant, you are irrational or you are incredibly wealthy.
    Be rational, be informed.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Soluna View Post
    You forgot a big 'in my opinion'.Covenants being a fixed choice is the only annoying thing, rest is just blowing things out of proportion.
    These are forums and it is understood we share opinions. I hope you understand!
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  8. #28
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    The last thing that I ever want them to do is "listen to the players." At least the very vocal players. That's how we got BFA. People complained about the Legion AP grind, and that's how we got the watered down Azerite system. People complained about the RNG legendaries and that's how we got the return of login, raid, maybe do a M+, log out for a week with zero incentive to do other content.
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  9. #29
    I definitely hate the aoe cap. That's going to be really sucky for collectors.

    The busted legacy scaling concerns me greatly, but I knew they'd botch it (they always do) but normally it gets fixed.

    Other than that meh, we will see.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatbeaverlol View Post
    A bit to late for that I think now.
    It is never too late to pull the ripcord and save covenants. Even bellular even agrees with this now and did a lengthy and well made video on this very topic. If they listen to players they can avoid another BFA. Beta testers are voicing that covenants as they are presented right now does not provide the meaningful choices as sold at blizzcon.

    Feedback does matter which is why essences became account bound.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  11. #31
    Master of the Void The Dark One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezerek View Post
    Why are you capitalizing the 2. "z" of Blizzard everytime?
    I came here to ask this question also, it's damn weird.
    Fundamental civil rights are only "political" if you're trying to take them away from people.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrinx View Post
    I definitely hate the aoe cap. That's going to be really sucky for collectors.

    The busted legacy scaling concerns me greatly, but I knew they'd botch it (they always do) but normally it gets fixed.

    Other than that meh, we will see.
    Yeah the AoE cap is really bad and slow down the game play way too much as I have been trying out the prepatch on the PTR. It feels like WoW combat which used to be fast and fluid is now cumbersome and not consistent. How am I missing the mob that is right in front of me because of the hard AoE cap? At least the old devs were wiser by having a diminishing return on AoE cap.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  13. #33
    High Overlord Syfus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    Nice analysis. Nobody cares about your opinion.
    Lol perfect!!!! Close topic plz kthnks!

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    The last thing that I ever want them to do is "listen to the players." At least the very vocal players. That's how we got BFA. People complained about the Legion AP grind, and that's how we got the watered down Azerite system. People complained about the RNG legendaries and that's how we got the return of login, raid, maybe do a M+, log out for a week with zero incentive to do other content.
    I disagree because if they listened to beta testers of BFA it would have turned out a better expansion. Ignoring BFA beta testes proved to be a massive mistake and we all don't want a repeat of BFA.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  15. #35
    Pandaren Monk taishar68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    I disagree because if they listened to beta testers of BFA it would have turned out a better expansion. Ignoring BFA beta testes proved to be a massive mistake and we all don't want a repeat of BFA.
    You don't know it would have been better; it could have been worse, hindsight is 20/20.

    Most of your complaints are about things very few people care about in the larger picture, so I disagree that the game has major problems, but sure, some players might. And yes, that will equate to a lot of people on our forum and others. Still a very small part of the overall picture.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by taishar68 View Post
    You don't know it would have been better; it could have been worse, hindsight is 20/20.

    Most of your complaints are about things very few people care about in the larger picture, so I disagree that the game has major problems, but sure, some players might. And yes, that will equate to a lot of people on our forum and others. Still a very small part of the overall picture.
    My opinion is that they could have fixed the issues with azerite armor before it launched. I think these issue are easy fixes if they listen early and often with players.

    Covenants is another example because waiting for the first patch coming out early in 2021 will be a hug gap to fix such issues.

    Plus, from what I am seeing the new expansion has issues regarding what content it has to offer for a diverse players. Forcing players to obtain legendary recipes from PVP or castle nathria doesn't feel right IMO.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  17. #37
    When they did the stat squish this happened too and they will give us an old school content hidden buff again hopefully before launch. I do not like the nerf to older content drops that is indeed a slap in the face of moggers everywhere. They could simply reduce the value maximum on gear in older content instead of being lazy fucks.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by oriondc View Post
    Really? I care, and I also agree with him. I’ve been in SL since alpha and it’s... going to be unpleasant. But, you already sound unpleasant, so you’ll probably feel right at home.
    Yeah I have heard feedback from alpha and beta testers that are many things that are not finished. Is it true that the MAW is basically empty for the most part? Plus, I don't understand the mount restriction in a zone that they require people to progress in.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Beet View Post
    Probably because it’s often true. Although Legion wasn’t despised this way. Some people were unhappy with some things which is always the case but it wasn’t seen as worst ever at all. I think WoD and now BFA will always take that cake.
    Nope, they were pretty much spot on. Every time an expansion is current people claim it is the worst. Then 2 expansions later you will hear the same people say how X bad expansion is now great or in Top 3. We are even seeing it now with WoD which will likely increase into next expansion based on past trends. Cata use to be the worst then MoP and both are now favored as well.

    Yes, even Legion was despised by a lot of people as well and even now people are praising it. With only BFA getting the massive amount of hate. So either in SL or expansion after it will BFA start to be considered good.

  20. #40
    Mechagnome Mask's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    The "major" problems seem to affect mostly the top 0.1% of raiders and the pseudo-elitist idiots that think they are like the 0.1% of raiders.

    Thus.. not really Major problems at all, as the game would likely be far better off without them.
    Some covenant powers are just awfully implemented. I only play a rogue, so I can only speak from their choices right now, but I assume many other classes have similar problems. It doesn't have to do with wanting to be the top 1%, it has to do with wanting to be effective at all, or have fun at all playing the game.

    The rogues Kyrian power is annoying as hell to use. It isn't fun. It's also very weak.

    Night Fae is more fun, and you can think of all kinds of cool uses for it in group content, but because it forces a vanish it's useless in solo play. Vanish resets whatever mobs you were fighting. This is a huge problem. It's also balanced too weak and with too long of a cooldown right now.

    Venthyr is just buggy, but even with the bugs cleared it seems like something that is completely useless for one spec (assassination), bad for another spec (outlaw), and possibly very good for the third spec (subtlety) if paired with exactly the right potency conduit (deeper daggers) to boost it further. Assuming that conduit will even work with the Venthyr soulbind - if not then it's also bad for subtely.

    The Necolords Bone Spike is fun to use, works well with all 3 rogue specs, is a ranged combo point builder, and is great for all modes of play (solo, dungeon, pvp, raids). For moment to moment gameplay fun and effectiveness Bone Spike is just leaps and bounds better than every other covenant power right now on the beta. It's not close.

    The difference between these covenant powers isn't a top 1% issue. Every rogue in the game will be hit with the difference in how well or badly implemented these abilities are.
    Last edited by Mask; 2020-09-02 at 03:36 PM.

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