Shadowlands has major problems up ahead

[Mafic]

When they did the stat squish this happened too and they will give us an old school content hidden buff again hopefully before launch. I do not like the nerf to older content drops that is indeed a slap in the face of moggers everywhere. .

There is no way to know what is intended or not on the prepatch PTR because it could be a mistake. But yeah right now it is a big negative to transmog collectors based on prepatch PTR changes. A lot of players love transmog hunting in legacy content as well I do and it feels like it is taking away another layer of fun that doesn't involve endgame.

Some covenant powers are just awfully implemented. I only play a rogue, so I can only speak from their choices right now, but I assume many other classes have similar problems. It doesn't have to do with wanting to be the top 1%, it has to do with wanting to be effective at all, or have fun at all playing the game.

The rogues Kyrian power is annoying as hell to use. It isn't fun. It's also very weak.

Night Fae is more fun, and you can think of all kinds of cool uses for it in group content, but because it forces a vanish it's useless in solo play. Vanish resets whatever mobs you were fighting. This is a huge problem. It's also balanced too weak and with too long of a cooldown right now.

Venthyr is just buggy, but even with the bugs cleared it seems like something that is completely useless for one spec (assassination), bad for another spec (outlaw), and possibly very good for the third spec (subtlety) if paired with exactly the right potency conduit (deeper daggers) to boost it further. Assuming that conduit will even work with the Venthyr soulbind - if not then it's also bad for subtely.

The Necolords Bone Spike is fun to use, works well with all 3 rogue specs, is a ranged combo point builder, and is great for all modes of play (solo, dungeon, pvp, raids). For moment to moment gameplay fun and effectiveness Bone Spike is just leaps and bounds better than every other covenant power right now on the beta. It's not close.

The difference between these covenant powers isn't a top 1% issue. Every rogue in the game will be hit with the difference in how well or badly implemented these abilities are.

Yes that is on point and reinforces what I have seen with Rogue covenants as well. Bone Spike simply excels in all facets of PVE and PVP game play for Rogues, and I am not sure even tuning of all the covenants can close that type of gap.

[CalamityHeart]

Player power being reduced because of the loss of Corruptions was destined to happen. It's a consequence of that borrowed power system going away. Say what you will about borrowed power in general, but a reduction in player power because of those systems going away is exactly as intended and will remain to be the case until Shadowlands.

Old raids being harder than they should be is both a pure numbers issue and a legacy content issue. As in, a double-whammy on low-priority tasks, compared to, you know, working on classes and the upcoming novel content. I'm not surprised Blizzard isn't talking much about it. There are much more important things that need to be talked about.

If you're worried about whether or not Blizzard is going to be going back on their legacy loot rules come Shadowlands, let me help you out there. The answer is "Obviously not." If legacy loot isn't enabled on the PTR -- Was it ever? I dunno. -- then there's either no reason for it to be enabled on PTR (understandable), or there's a bug somewhere that should reasonably be fixed between now and when prepatch goes live. There is zero reason to think that Blizzard is going to affect your raw-gold gain and transmog hunts intentionally when it comes to legacy content. You can shelve your "devaluation of gear and raw gold" post that you were planning for "another day". It likely would've been meaningless drivel that gets either immediately invalidated or quickly fixed come the live release.

The AOE cap as it pertains to legacy content is something I'm rather interested in, though. Personally, for my weekly rotation of legacy content, which is either: all of WoD raids + SoO across four characters, or simply all of HFC across nine characters, it... doesn't matter. At all. Mob density is usually not big enough for me to care, and I can count on one hand the times that it ever is. So for me, I can probably safely say that I don't give a shit. But I don't know other people's rotations or what they do in other instances that I don't bother with, or what those other instances are even like, mob density wise. So that could be a problem for some? I honestly don't really know that much. But me personally? Who cares.

Covenants are definitely not as rigid as people make them out to be. You can change your covenant, and from what I understand, you can jump from one covenant to another pretty easily. It's jumping back to the covenant you've abandoned that takes a little work. I don't know much about this. How much work actually is it? I heard something about it being a couple quests or something? Is there a redemption process implemented right now for getting back into a covenant you betrayed? But that's beside the point, mostly. The point is, if you want to change your covenant, fucking do it. Even they implemented an actual rigid punishment system on covenant changing, like not being able to switch back to one you've abandoned until the weekly reset or something like that, then ration your time better. Do all the content that you're best at in one covenant until you're satisfied and then switch to another to do content that's better with that covenant. Obviously, that's a little bit more stifling, but the wiggle room is there. You aren't locked into a covenant when you choose one. But at the same time, they're not a talent row that you can just spin around willy-nilly as it suits you.

As much shit as people give to borrowed power and how it stifles the growth of classes, there has to be a point where classes just eternally growing and growing and growing and growing and growing and growing and growing MUST stop. I would personally rather have classes that are made relatively simple with room to grow as the expansion progresses through the systems that those classes introduces, and then go back and do it again when the next expansion hits than to either a) continue to pile new shit onto my action bars every expansions or bake abilities/talents into other abilities/talents to make room for the new shit, or b) get no growth over the life of the game. Between A and B, B is probably preferable. But the concept of borrowed power and looking at my classes through an expansion-by-expansion lens, rather than this huge mass of mess across all expansions? I get why people dislike it, but personally, I'm fine with it. Azerite was a shitty iteration of borrowed power. Artifacts were better, if you ask me. Soulbinds and Conduits? They look promising, but it remains to be seen. I want to get my hands on them and find out for myself.

Zone design? I'm not very opinionated on it. If it sucks to navigate, it sucks to navigate, and that would be unfortunate, because the zones themselves are just gorgeous. But just because they haven't shared their Pathfinder info yet doesn't mean they have no plans. I would like to hope that flying will eventually be a thing in Shadowlands. There's no reason for it not to be, and there's no apparent reason why they wouldn't be able to. Disconnected zones? ...So what? Just let us fly within those zones. My issue, potentially, with disconnected zones is the feeling of tinyness, potentially. I know they're not tiny zones, but I don't know. We're basically getting five Nazjatars bridged by portals, instead of whole navigable landmasses. Maybe it won't feel so bad once I get into it, but just the thought is a tad worrying. But flying? Not really. Being totally on-foot in the Maw could get annoying, though.

I don't know. Shadowlands has its issues, sure. Some things that, conceptually could be better, and some things that have been changed already by Blizzard, an indication of, you know, them listening to feedback.

I'm never jumping on the doom-and-gloom train. Mostly because most of the passengers on said train are fucking annoying and uncompelling. Partially because I'm just generally a glass-half-full kind of player who would rather wait and see for myself if Blizzard fucks it up than give the opinions of others rent space in my head. In tiny part because since I pay for this game in gold, I have absolutely nothing to lose and will more than likely just have a good bit of fun with this game whether or not I generally enjoy what the expansion has to offer or not.

[Nachtigal]

Really? I care, and I also agree with him. I’ve been in SL since alpha and it’s... going to be unpleasant. But, you already sound unpleasant, so you’ll probably feel right at home.

I’m excited for Shadowlands. I’m not going to jump through hoops to meet “demands” though so I’m not bothered. Maybe that’s why I’ll enjoy it more than most.

[Kralljin]

It cannot ... by definition... be true

If the [current expansion] is actually worse than the previous one, it actually is true.

Imagine going from a 9 to a 8 => 8 is "the worst".
Imagine going from a 8 to a 7 => Now 7 is "the worst".

And so forth.

And by the way, WoD & Cata disprove your theory that you and some other have, at least now more people call this terrible theory out for not being true.

[Nyel]

I agree. That's why Shadowlands still looks good in comparison. There will be talk for decades about just how the bad Bfa was.
A rare monument of ineptitude that will be hard to match even by Blizzard itself.

I don't know, we had a similar situation during the transition from WoD to Legion. The major difference is, Blizzard went full in with Legion. In Shadowlands they are just doint the absolute minimum and are far away from giving their best.

[exsanguinate]

Nice analysis. Nobody cares about your opinion.

so nobody cares about your statement mr. "I speak for the majority"

[Vargrik]

I'm actually happy legacy content feels harder than what it is currently.

[Daevied]

It is never too late to pull the ripcord and save covenants. Even bellular even agrees with this now and did a lengthy and well made video on this very topic. If they listen to players they can avoid another BFA. Beta testers are voicing that covenants as they are presented right now does not provide the meaningful choices as sold at blizzcon.

Feedback does matter which is why essences became account bound.

Yikes, another youtuber follower....

[rrayy]

It is never too late to pull the ripcord and save covenants. Even bellular even agrees with this now and did a lengthy and well made video on this very topic. If they listen to players they can avoid another BFA. Beta testers are voicing that covenants as they are presented right now does not provide the meaningful choices as sold at blizzcon.

Feedback does matter which is why essences became account bound.

Who cares what Bellular thinks? He is a nobody and only speaks for himself and he in no way makes your opinions fact or validates them. All you are doing is demanding Blizzard do things you way. Well, no everyone agrees with you. YOu need to stop acting like your opinion is the only one that matters.

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I don't know, we had a similar situation during the transition from WoD to Legion. The major difference is, Blizzard went full in with Legion. In Shadowlands they are just doint the absolute minimum and are far away from giving their best.

And you know that how? Not giving you everything you want does not = not giving their best.

[Deferionus]

I agree. That's why Shadowlands still looks good in comparison. There will be talk for decades about just how the bad Bfa was.
A rare monument of ineptitude that will be hard to match even by Blizzard itself.

In a decade BfA will be rated middle of the pack when it comes to expansions by most people. It wasn't all bad and had positives. I think WoD will continue to be the bottom feeder of WoW expacs.

[Nachtigal]

so nobody cares about your statement mr. "I speak for the majority"

Okay. And I don’t care, either way. His blog, not mine. I was just leaving my review.

[exochaft]

I think azerite armor at launch was bad and said as much before BFA launched. But covenant locking is going to be worse than even legion legiondaries. It is truly going to be punishing to those that want to play another spec or different build for a different aspect of game play for the week.

There is a huge overlap of players that dip into various part of WoW's end game whether it is questing, dungeons, M+, world PVP, unrated/rated instanced PVP and also raiding.

If a player wants to switch to a tank spec for the weekend to help out his guild and he can not that will feel bad. Lost player agency is a big, big issue.

I've been reading all your posts... and I get the distinct feeling almost all your arguments are based upon second-hand information, not actually thoroughly testing the alpha/beta across a variety of classes/specs/roles. Well, lucky for you, I have been thoroughly testing the beta acorss several classes/specs/roles... and almost everything you're worried about is way overblown, taken out of context, or has already been fixed.

Most of the covenant issues seem to default back to the rogue example as well as some more generic comments seeming to fit the perspective a rogue, maybe perhaps your main is a rogue? I'll say out of all the classes, rogue is probably in the worst shape when it comes to choosing a covenant and their covenant ability, but even with that disparity the chasm is mitigated by other factors (such as soulbinds, conduits, etc). Sub rogue is actually looking like a favored PvE spec beyond one niche fight for once, which is a nice change to be certain. I will submit we're still in the numbers pass phase, and we're even toying around with GCD's, some classes still have NYI and broken aspects beyond rogues... basically, there's still a ways to go on the beta.

I think you're confused about what player agency actually means, especially when related to someone wanting to switch specs to do another role. Your definition is as follows: allow the player to do whatever they want, whenever they want. That's not the correct definition, and many people have been falling into this trap. Player agency is allowing the player to make an impactful choice, and that choice affects your gameplay and experience. In today's world this may seem like an odd concept, but choices... have consequences! These can be good consequences, they can be bad consequences, it can be a mixture of both. The problem with the mentality I see with the #PullTheRipcord is that it comes from the former mentality, not the later. If you can just swap freely between talents, covenants, etc., it's actually the opposite of player agency as you have removed the consequence of the choice. Stated another way, your 'choice' is essentially inconsequential and meaningless because you can undo that 'choice' whenever you want. This topic bleeds into aspects of the game from a development and design aspect that I could talk about for pages on end... but I'll keep this as short as possible!

Anyways, back to the more specific choice as it relates to the actual definition of player agency when it comes to someone playing a class who delves into multiple roles: you have to make a meaningful choice when picking your covenant! Do you pick the covenant that gives you an ability that's great for DPS but not your cup of tea for tanking? Do you pick the covenant that's ideal for tanking but very underwhelming for DPS? Or do you pick the covenant that has the all-rounder ability that's not necessarily the best for any role but a solid choice for all of them? These are questions you will have to ask yourself when picking a covenant, which I already have had to grapple with while playing the beta since my guild tends to have me off-spec a ton. In my case, I'll likely pick the all-rounder since that's what I intend to do with my main, and it'll fit my playstyle and will work fine clearing mythic raids. Keep in mind that if you could just click a tome and change covenants in less than a second, all this choice and decision-making disappears and becomes meaningless, and there are no consequences to your covenant choice.

I will caveat everything with what I referenced earlier, and that is we're still in beta, nothing is finalized, there are still some outliers but Blizz has been squashing them, etc. If there is a covenant choice that is 'BiS' in every scenario, that's a problem and should be fixed. Ideally you want nothing to be 'BiS' with things being situationally good and/or having an option that's a good all-rounder, perhaps some options having higher skill cap potential, etc. Again, don't want to keep extending this post (because good Lord, I could), but this ties into the concept of balance... and what actually is good balance for the game versus "everyone's a winner, no one's a loser" balance. Even if one covenant ability sims BiS and top 0.1% world first raider uses this ability, it may not be BiS for you individually. Maybe your reaction time is different, maybe you have a preferred playstyle, maybe you have a different skillset, maybe you group/raid has different needs, and so on. What's the 'right' answer for 0.1% world first raider by no way means it's the 'right' answer for you and your situation. This gets into the topic of meta slavery, and how it's mostly the players enslaving themselves (with game design not always helping in some cases), but the main point is this: there are various solutions to any problem you encounter in WoW, and blindly following what is perceived as the meta will more often than not cause self-imposed issues or hinder your progression in the game. You don't have to reinvent the wheel, but one wheel does not work for all applications.

[Lolites]

Based on beta feedback it can be saved though if they pull the rip cord IMVHO.

They can save covenants and the expansion if they just listen to players.

they can "save" it for part of players, and fuck it up for others...
i know the "do it my way and EVERYONE will be happy" is common stance, but its not true

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This is the first expansion i can say from miles that it is going to be a huge piece of crap and it will be dead within 2 months from release. Even WoD and BfA atleast seemed to be somewhat good at the beginning

and by "dead" you mean you and 5 other people will leave i guess?

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Really? I care, and I also agree with him.

you dont care about HIS opinion, you care about YOURS, which he by coincidence shares

[Cosmic Janitor]

Old content stuff usually gets fixed eventually after a squish, but it tends to take a while.

[Lolites]

there was actualy a poll about "pulling ripcord" couple weeks back and before it was closed (too soon imo) 85% were against it... sure, it might just so happen that all those people that are for it did not vote, but even if so it surely shows not everyone wants them to pull the ripcord and fuck up the covenants...

[SirBeef]

You forgot a big 'in my opinion'.Covenants being a fixed choice is the only annoying thing, rest is just blowing things out of proportion.

Except Covenants are not a fixed choice.

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Who cares what Bellular thinks? He is a nobody and only speaks for himself and he in no way makes your opinions fact or validates them. All you are doing is demanding Blizzard do things you way. Well, no everyone agrees with you. YOu need to stop acting like your opinion is the only one that matters.

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And you know that how? Not giving you everything you want does not = not giving their best.

This amuses me the most about these posters. Any expansion they don't like is a filler expansion, low effort, doing the least possible to make the most money, blah, blah, blah. I'm going to start using that in retorts. Oh look at that filler comment. Looks like that poster is is doing the absolute least possible, said poster doesn't really care.

[Mafic]

Player power being reduced because of the loss of Corruptions was destined to happen. It's a consequence of that borrowed power system going away. Say what you will about borrowed power in general, but a reduction in player power because of those systems going away is exactly as intended and will remain to be the case until Shadowlands.

Old raids being harder than they should be is both a pure numbers issue and a legacy content issue. As in, a double-whammy on low-priority tasks, compared to, you know, working on classes and the upcoming novel content. I'm not surprised Blizzard isn't talking much about it. There are much more important things that need to be talked about.

If you're worried about whether or not Blizzard is going to be going back on their legacy loot rules come Shadowlands, let me help you out there. The answer is "Obviously not." If legacy loot isn't enabled on the PTR -- Was it ever? I dunno. -- then there's either no reason for it to be enabled on PTR (understandable), or there's a bug somewhere that should reasonably be fixed between now and when prepatch goes live. There is zero reason to think that Blizzard is going to affect your raw-gold gain and transmog hunts intentionally when it comes to legacy content. You can shelve your "devaluation of gear and raw gold" post that you were planning for "another day". It likely would've been meaningless drivel that gets either immediately invalidated or quickly fixed come the live release.

The AOE cap as it pertains to legacy content is something I'm rather interested in, though. Personally, for my weekly rotation of legacy content, which is either: all of WoD raids + SoO across four characters, or simply all of HFC across nine characters, it... doesn't matter. At all. Mob density is usually not big enough for me to care, and I can count on one hand the times that it ever is. So for me, I can probably safely say that I don't give a shit. But I don't know other people's rotations or what they do in other instances that I don't bother with, or what those other instances are even like, mob density wise. So that could be a problem for some? I honestly don't really know that much. But me personally? Who cares.

Covenants are definitely not as rigid as people make them out to be. You can change your covenant, and from what I understand, you can jump from one covenant to another pretty easily. It's jumping back to the covenant you've abandoned that takes a little work. I don't know much about this. How much work actually is it? I heard something about it being a couple quests or something? Is there a redemption process implemented right now for getting back into a covenant you betrayed? But that's beside the point, mostly. The point is, if you want to change your covenant, fucking do it. Even they implemented an actual rigid punishment system on covenant changing, like not being able to switch back to one you've abandoned until the weekly reset or something like that, then ration your time better. Do all the content that you're best at in one covenant until you're satisfied and then switch to another to do content that's better with that covenant. Obviously, that's a little bit more stifling, but the wiggle room is there. You aren't locked into a covenant when you choose one. But at the same time, they're not a talent row that you can just spin around willy-nilly as it suits you.

As much shit as people give to borrowed power and how it stifles the growth of classes, there has to be a point where classes just eternally growing and growing and growing and growing and growing and growing and growing MUST stop. I would personally rather have classes that are made relatively simple with room to grow as the expansion progresses through the systems that those classes introduces, and then go back and do it again when the next expansion hits than to either a) continue to pile new shit onto my action bars every expansions or bake abilities/talents into other abilities/talents to make room for the new shit, or b) get no growth over the life of the game. Between A and B, B is probably preferable. But the concept of borrowed power and looking at my classes through an expansion-by-expansion lens, rather than this huge mass of mess across all expansions? I get why people dislike it, but personally, I'm fine with it. Azerite was a shitty iteration of borrowed power. Artifacts were better, if you ask me. Soulbinds and Conduits? They look promising, but it remains to be seen. I want to get my hands on them and find out for myself.

Zone design? I'm not very opinionated on it. If it sucks to navigate, it sucks to navigate, and that would be unfortunate, because the zones themselves are just gorgeous. But just because they haven't shared their Pathfinder info yet doesn't mean they have no plans. I would like to hope that flying will eventually be a thing in Shadowlands. There's no reason for it not to be, and there's no apparent reason why they wouldn't be able to. Disconnected zones? ...So what? Just let us fly within those zones. My issue, potentially, with disconnected zones is the feeling of tinyness, potentially. I know they're not tiny zones, but I don't know. We're basically getting five Nazjatars bridged by portals, instead of whole navigable landmasses. Maybe it won't feel so bad once I get into it, but just the thought is a tad worrying. But flying? Not really. Being totally on-foot in the Maw could get annoying, though.

I don't know. Shadowlands has its issues, sure. Some things that, conceptually could be better, and some things that have been changed already by Blizzard, an indication of, you know, them listening to feedback.

I'm never jumping on the doom-and-gloom train. Mostly because most of the passengers on said train are fucking annoying and uncompelling. Partially because I'm just generally a glass-half-full kind of player who would rather wait and see for myself if Blizzard fucks it up than give the opinions of others rent space in my head. In tiny part because since I pay for this game in gold, I have absolutely nothing to lose and will more than likely just have a good bit of fun with this game whether or not I generally enjoy what the expansion has to offer or not.

I don't have a problem with a reduction of player power like corruption as I never liked it. However, when they do not compensate for players leveling into the new expansion that is a problem. BFA leveling felt worse as you leveled and reached level and I am not talking about stat devaluation. I am talking about how you reach level cap and you feel weaker than you started and that frankly should never happen in a MMORPG. You dinged level cap and you didn't gain any power or strength.

But back to the borrowed power of BFA...this really undermines the replay value for those that do want to go back to BFA or even those who have never done the content. Without corruptions, without titanforging, and HOA locked until level 50 that really undermines the entire point of having BFA. And expansion of BFA is supposed to add value to the core game but that is not what happened.

On the PTR I think it is a high priority issue and this is why Watcher talked about it as an issue that they were looking into so no I don't agree with that view. If Watcher didn't think it was an issue he wouldn't have responded the way he did. As for confidence of being fixed that are issue with scaling and squishes that it indeed may become ignored because of the other various bigger issues that need to be ironed out before launch. Bringing this to light is imperative for them to fix these various issues. With the way that gear is being squished to the level squish it is impacting the raw gold amounts and also there are many issues with gold sinks that have not been adjusted (eg garrisons costs). Simply put these are issues that many people assume will be fixed by launch or soon after launch of prepatch but I would put in the category of many and not isolated cases.

The AoE cap hinders those that farm crafting mats, transmog hunt in older content, and also those that farm legacy content for other raw materials. Yes WoD raids don't have high density of mobs but at the same time the value of WoD raids comes from loot from the bosses. Without that loot and having single pieces of gear drop that is worrisome. You feel that they will fix that but it has been many weeks so far and I hope you are right.

There hasn't been enough info how easy or hard it is to just change covenants. What we do know is that they intend to make it as cumbersome as possible to deter that type of activity. Renown will carry over if you do switch with another covenant but you will have to pay a high opportunity cost as a result of this choice.

I am glad you brought up the talent comparison because that is actually what covenant abilities are they are talents and they are not better version of talents and often are lesser version of talents. If we can change superior talents around as we choose then I do not see for the pointless restriction on covenant abilities. In fact they haven't updated the talent tree since WoD. They had a chance to extend the talent tree at the end of legion with artifact traits and talents but chose not to which I think looking back on it in hindsight was a mistake of epic proportions.

The problem is that classes functioned fine without borrowed power for many, many years and the success of classic reinforces the desire for people to play complete classes. Classes in the past were pruned every few expansion to make room for new talents and abilities. Now? Because of borrowed power they are pruning the rentals every two years while ignoring the base of classes many of which rely on that borrowed power or simply are not fun.

If I was to guess the reason why artifacts may have resonated more with you was that it was actually involved with your class and spec. I can't really say the same for many azerite traits, essences or corruptions. Soul Binds, Conduits and legendaries are more class and spec specific like legion. But at the same time they are simply copying from legion itself. In other words they pruned a lot of these rental abilties and are now handing back to us to regrind again. Why? I have my legiondaries sitting in my bank and they now expect all of us to regrind some of these legiondaries in the new expansion? The whole point of using borrowed power is to offer players something new right? Well that defeats the entire point if they are going to bring back artifact traits, talents and legiondaries for the new expansion and should have made another talent tier to squeeze all that into because that would have made more logical sense IMO.

The art team are the rockstars over there and have been carrying the system design team for some time. But yes the zones look lovely and very cool but the layouts are not congruent with a MMORPG experience for ground mount navigation and also with exploring on the foot. The reduction of flight points in these zones coupled with no flying whistle doesn't bode well if they intend on grounding players for another year like they did with BFA. But the bigger point is that if they want players to engage these zones they need to make it more friendly for ground mounts and not rely on excessive vertical scale which has plagued the design of zones in WoW since WoD.

I don't think of it as doom as I see it as a chance for positive changes, but time is running out. The problem is that there are so many issues and the release has caught everyone off guard because it seems like it is a time table that has accelerated just to meet the quarter and avoid the release of competing with other games in the late fall/early winter.

Overall, what I am seeing are vibes of BFA with the upcoming expansion and it is hard to shake that feeling. A feeling of knowing what comes next but you hope for the best.

[piocgvdqsa]

I don't have a problem with a reduction of player power like corruption as I never liked it. However, when they do not compensate for players leveling into the new expansion that is a problem. BFA leveling felt worse as you leveled and reached level and I am not talking about stat devaluation. I am talking about how you reach level cap and you feel weaker than you started and that frankly should never happen in a MMORPG. You dinged level cap and you didn't gain any power or strength.

But back to the borrowed power of BFA...this really undermines the replay value for those that do want to go back to BFA or even those who have never done the content. Without corruptions, without titanforging, and HOA locked until level 50 that really undermines the entire point of having BFA. And expansion of BFA is supposed to add value to the core game but that is not what happened.

On the PTR I think it is a high priority issue and this is why Watcher talked about it as an issue that they were looking into so no I don't agree with that view. If Watcher didn't think it was an issue he wouldn't have responded the way he did. As for confidence of being fixed that are issue with scaling and squishes that it indeed may become ignored because of the other various bigger issues that need to be ironed out before launch. Bringing this to light is imperative for them to fix these various issues. With the way that gear is being squished to the level squish it is impacting the raw gold amounts and also there are many issues with gold sinks that have not been adjusted (eg garrisons costs). Simply put these are issues that many people assume will be fixed by launch or soon after launch of prepatch but I would put in the category of many and not isolated cases.

The AoE cap hinders those that farm crafting mats, transmog hunt in older content, and also those that farm legacy content for other raw materials. Yes WoD raids don't have high density of mobs but at the same time the value of WoD raids comes from loot from the bosses. Without that loot and having single pieces of gear drop that is worrisome. You feel that they will fix that but it has been many weeks so far and I hope you are right.

There hasn't been enough info how easy or hard it is to just change covenants. What we do know is that they intend to make it as cumbersome as possible to deter that type of activity. Renown will carry over if you do switch with another covenant but you will have to pay a high opportunity cost as a result of this choice.

I am glad you brought up the talent comparison because that is actually what covenant abilities are they are talents and they are not better version of talents and often are lesser version of talents. If we can change superior talents around as we choose then I do not see for the pointless restriction on covenant abilities. In fact they haven't updated the talent tree since WoD. They had a chance to extend the talent tree at the end of legion with artifact traits and talents but chose not to which I think looking back on it in hindsight was a mistake of epic proportions.

The problem is that classes functioned fine without borrowed power for many, many years and the success of classic reinforces the desire for people to play complete classes. Classes in the past were pruned every few expansion to make room for new talents and abilities. Now? Because of borrowed power they are pruning the rentals every two years while ignoring the base of classes many of which rely on that borrowed power or simply are not fun.

If I was to guess the reason why artifacts may have resonated more with you was that it was actually involved with your class and spec. I can't really say the same for many azerite traits, essences or corruptions. Soul Binds, Conduits and legendaries are more class and spec specific like legion. But at the same time they are simply copying from legion itself. In other words they pruned a lot of these rental abilties and are now handing back to us to regrind again. Why? I have my legiondaries sitting in my bank and they now expect all of us to regrind some of these legiondaries in the new expansion? The whole point of using borrowed power is to offer players something new right? Well that defeats the entire point if they are going to bring back artifact traits, talents and legiondaries for the new expansion and should have made another talent tier to squeeze all that into because that would have made more logical sense IMO.

The art team are the rockstars over there and have been carrying the system design team for some time. But yes the zones look lovely and very cool but the layouts are not congruent with a MMORPG experience for ground mount navigation and also with exploring on the foot. The reduction of flight points in these zones coupled with no flying whistle doesn't bode well if they intend on grounding players for another year like they did with BFA. But the bigger point is that if they want players to engage these zones they need to make it more friendly for ground mounts and not rely on excessive vertical scale which has plagued the design of zones in WoW since WoD.

I don't think of it as doom as I see it as a chance for positive changes, but time is running out. The problem is that there are so many issues and the release has caught everyone off guard because it seems like it is a time table that has accelerated just to meet the quarter and avoid the release of competing with other games in the late fall/early winter.

Overall, what I am seeing are vibes of BFA with the upcoming expansion and it is hard to shake that feeling. A feeling of knowing what comes next but you hope for the best.

Just think about this Wall of Bullshit. This is psychopathic

[Mafic]

Oh, cool. More doom and gloom forecasted for a new expansion that's not even in pre-patch yet. Imagine that... <Yawn>

EDIT: As far as 'listen to players'...which ones? The heavy PvPers? Pet battlers? Hardcore M+ fanatics? Ultra-casuals who prefer to level more than anything? Any one of another twenty groupings?

Yeah. Doesn't matter what Blizzard does, they can't make it right for everyone. They just have to do what they think will work out for the best, and fix it as well as they can if they get it wrong. They can't always predict what players will do with X or Y thing in game, once it's released.

Actually listening to beta testers would be a fair and sufficient start from my view. This is because they have the best experience of how the new expansion functions.

[Krimzin]

There are issues with every expansion in every game ever made. There is no such thing as a perfect plan.

I think Blizzard is doing its best to make everyone happy, but as we know by this thread and others, that is impossible.

There are a ton of people who Stream Beta. Some are paid, some aren't. Across the board, I see more positive attitudes toward the expansion than negative ones. If it were as horrible as you are making it seem, it would be a universal theme among all streamers, but its not.

I wish you well but if you are going into the expansion with a negative attitude, it is going to suck for you. I'm keeping an open mind and am looking forward to new features and content.


Good luck to you.